The Wizards Board Politics Thread - Read Me

[pineappleheadindc]

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Peeps:

We've had an inquiry about the Politics thread and its place on the Wizards board. The inquiry wonders why it's on the board and if the Wizards board needs it. The politics thread is a place of, at times, heated back-and-forth. And why would we host such a board when other teams' boards do not host such a potentially heated and divisive thread. That thread may be causing people to leave the board, etc.

To let you know, over the last week or so, Wiz board mods have been discussing it.

The Politics Board will stay.

The RealGM Wizards board has always been different. We've hosted all kinds of non-basketball threads. The poetry thread. The workout thread. The Luv-a-Bulls thread(s). The What Are You Reading thread. The list is endless. The politics thread was borne of the Wizards board original time -- at a time where the board owner, JRosenth (aka "JRo"), doc, donkey, scabs, etc reigned here. And its purpose, no different than the poetry thread, was to provide a community of users other topics with which to interact.

The Wizards board has always leaned libertarian in its approach to our operations. Live and let live. Post or don't post. Lurk or contribute. We don't mod too aggressively. Generally our community knows its limits and when someone steps over the line, the community is self-correcting.

The mods perceive no reason to kill a thread that you personally have to proactively log into in order to participate. If the politics thread is too negative for you, please do not log into it. Revive the poetry thread or book thread or Luv-a-Bulls thread for non-basketball distraction.

To reiterate, if a specific topic within this board is not your cup of tea, please do not log into it. Stay where you are comfortable. Don't make yourself frustrated, life is too short for that.

Wiz are hot. They started slowly, but the starters have been playing at an all-NBA level. Looking forward to the discussion, the laughs, and yes, the debate over the next few months as we work our way (hopefully) into the Eastern Conference Finals. If politics, or poetry, or workouts, or Luv-a-Bulls are your cup of tea as well...let's get it on!

Yours,

Pine

P.S.
In typical Wizards board tradition, we'll leave this thread open for the thoughts of one and all (knowing that we mods have some incoming headed our way). But will be closing it somewhere around when the Wizards end their all-star break next Friday. Have at it.

[pineappleheadindc]

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Watch on YouTube

...America is advanced citizenship. You've gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight.
It's gonna say, 'You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.....

[Donkey McDonkerton]

Agree that it should stay, but all you (1) trump loving crazies better not get it twisted. Don't forget who runs this ****.

[bondom34]

Just saw the thread here.

[NatP4]

I like the politics thread and I don't think nate is racist.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

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Peeps:

We've had an inquiry about the Politics thread and its place on the Wizards board. The inquiry wonders why it's on the board and if the Wizards board needs it. The politics thread is a place of, at times, heated back-and-forth. And why would we host such a board when other teams' boards do not host such a potentially heated and divisive thread. That thread may be causing people to leave the board, etc.

To let you know, over the last week or so, Wiz board mods have been discussing it.

The Politics Board will stay.

The RealGM Wizards board has always been different. We've hosted all kinds of non-basketball threads. The poetry thread. The workout thread. The Luv-a-Bulls thread(s). The What Are You Reading thread. The list is endless. The politics thread was borne of the Wizards board original time -- at a time where the board owner, JRosenth (aka "JRo"), doc, donkey, scabs, etc reigned here. And its purpose, no different than the poetry thread, was to provide a community of users other topics with which to interact.

The Wizards board has always leaned libertarian in its approach to our operations. Live and let live. Post or don't post. Lurk or contribute. We don't mod too aggressively. Generally our community knows its limits and when someone steps over the line, the community is self-correcting.

The mods perceive no reason to kill a thread that you personally have to proactively log into in order to participate. If the politics thread is too negative for you, please do not log into it. Revive the poetry thread or book thread or Luv-a-Bulls thread for non-basketball distraction.

To reiterate, if a specific topic within this board is not your cup of tea, please do not log into it. Stay where you are comfortable. Don't make yourself frustrated, life is too short for that.

Wiz are hot. They started slowly, but the starters have been playing at an all-NBA level. Looking forward to the discussion, the laughs, and yes, the debate over the next few months as we work our way (hopefully) into the Eastern Conference Finals. If politics, or poetry, or workouts, or Luv-a-Bulls are your cup of tea as well...let's get it on!

Yours,

Pine

P.S.
In typical Wizards board tradition, we'll leave this thread open for the thoughts of one and all (knowing that we mods have some incoming headed our way). But will be closing it somewhere around when the Wizards end their all-star break next Friday. Have at it.

Stop talking about the dang EFC. We're destined to go all the way.

[doclinkin]

I love the helloutta the Politics thread, often lurk it even when Im on hiatus from posting. Its a rare and blessed thing to be able to have actual dialogue instead of circle jerk and echochamber of folks confirming their own ideas. Hell I don't mind even if I thought nate _was_ racist, for instance, he's still in conversation with folks of all shades and credos, countrymen and citizens of the world, and so long as dialogue goes both ways we have a chance to convince one another. There's irony in his stubborn adherence to the ideal of a patriotic homogeneity, his best conversation comes with people radically different from him. And he cheers for a sport where you see the wide spectrum of humans from Muggsy Bogues to Gheorghe Muresan, three different kinds of Jason Williamses, Jokics and Porzunis and John Walls and all the all.

I love that people get passionate about ideas. They MATTER. The rest of what we type on here is basically inconsequential, dabbling in fantasy that our informed fandom has any real effect on the outcome of games, its absurd. But in the politics thread you're actually in dialogue with bureaucrats and teachers and businesspeeps and policy makers and flunkeys and functionaries etc.

As basketball fans we can buy a ticket or not buy a ticket, we can cheer or we can heckle. Beyond that we have little real effect on anything that happens (though CCJ may be delusional enough to think his picks are a on a slow trickle conduit to the front office and maybe just maybe Ted is Millie or Millie is ted's son, I dunno)

Hated that we killed off hands. SD20 back in the day (welcome back brother), hate the idiocy of the general board et al mods snuffing people for having a snarky opinion where fat headed mods and site owners lose sight of the purpose of a forum for cross talk and vibrant dialogue. How you gonna have any reader at all if you keep killing off vigorous debate and conversation? We watch athletic contests, the essence of drama is conflict, most boards on here are dead and dull and tedious and lack a point really beyond and exceedingly geeky and introverted version of a pep rally.

The day the Politics thread goes away is the day I'm done wasting my time on here. And its a shame because this is one of the more enjoyable wastes of time. If we lose fish and kev to other sites (or whomever. i'm guessing) because they got their feelings hurt that a bright and opinated and otehrwise smart member of the board help opinions that were offensive to them, well that's their privilege, but also f-- em. And I mean that with all love and affection. Seriously. F-- em with gentle love and affection. Metaphorically I guess.

Point being, dialogue is what the hell this place is for. You don't have to agree, hell you better not, but expression is what allows for conversation and growth. Otherwise, explosions. By all means lets talk this out. Violence is the language of the inarticulate. Why not work this mess out aloud, on here, where we have the common affliction of being Wizards fans. Call it the doc maxim: If not for the internet: the unibomber.

Anyway. My two pence.

[pineappleheadindc]

Agree that it should stay, but all you (1) trump loving crazies better not get it twisted. Don't forget who runs this ****.

IIRC, this screenshot was when Miller gave you guys permission to take over the boards, right? Pretty sure he regrets that to this day.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

Agree that it should stay, but all you (1) trump loving crazies better not get it twisted. Don't forget who runs this ****.

IIRC, this screenshot was when Miller gave you guys permission to take over the boards, right? Pretty sure he regrets that to this day.

No, that never happened. Permission was never given for a takeover, where'd you hear that? My st have been made up by Miller. That was just some fine precision posting.

[keynote]

I've read the politics thread. I vehemently disagree with some of the content in there, but I've made my peace with it. While the conversation in there is...lively, I haven't noticed many (any?) instances of people changing their minds of positions. That may not be fair (I certainly haven't read every post in there), but I read too many instances of people contorting their logic (and evidence) to support their positions, rather than the other way around. Kinda like what fans do in the rest of the forum. When facts are met with "yeah, but still," I tend to get disinterested. But again, I simply choose to ignore it, for the most part.

I do think it's hypocritical to maintain and protect a thread that's clearly volatile, off-topic, *and* off-brand, while simultaneously shutting down discourse of the DC football team, because the latter doesn't fit in with the site owners' preferred business model. If RealGM wants to "encourage" Redskins chatter to appear on the (relatively dormant) Redskins board, the mods could do the same here and "encourage" this conversation to continue on the /Off-Topic/Current Affairs board. The thing is: I suspect that the mods recognize that the Political Thread denizens don't just want to talk politics (which they could do anywhere); they want to talk politics within *this* community. The same argument applied to our Redskins thread, naturally, but business concerns apparently trump that logic. I get it: it's Their Site, Not Ours, etc. It's still a shame.

[nate33]

I've read the politics thread. I vehemently disagree with some of the content in there, but I've made my peace with it. While the conversation in there is...lively, I haven't noticed many (any?) instances of people changing their minds of positions. That may not be fair (I certainly haven't read every post in there), but I read too many instances of people contorting their logic (and evidence) to support their positions, rather than the other way around. Kinda like what fans do in the rest of the forum. When facts are met with "yeah, but still," I tend to get disinterested. But again, I simply choose to ignore it, for the most part.

I do think it's hypocritical to maintain and protect a thread that's clearly volatile, off-topic, *and* off-brand, while simultaneously shutting down discourse of the DC football team, because the latter doesn't fit in with the site owners' preferred business model. If RealGM wants to "encourage" Redskins chatter to appear on the (relatively dormant) Redskins board, the mods could do the same here and "encourage" this conversation to continue on the /Off-Topic/Current Affairs board. The thing is: I suspect that the mods recognize that the Political Thread denizens don't just want to talk politics (which they could do anywhere); they want to talk politics within *this* community. The same argument applied to our Redskins thread, naturally, but business concerns apparently trump that logic. I get it: it's Their Site, Not Ours, etc. It's still a shame.

Excellent point.

[sfam]

I too would support the Redskins thread. If you're going to have a politics thread, you might as well have one on a local sports team.

And I definitely agree with not logging in to the politics thread if its not for you. That certainly happened to me a number of months back. I pretty much stopped coming to the board because of it. Its good advice to just not go to the thread if you're in that mindset. More recently I've been trying the politics board again - we'll see how long that lasts.

[daSwami]

Agree that it should stay, but all you (1) trump loving crazies better not get it twisted. Don't forget who runs this ****.

IIRC, this screenshot was when Miller gave you guys permission to take over the boards, right? Pretty sure he regrets that to this day.

The Uprising. I remember it well. Honored to have made an appearance in the screenshot.

Anyway, I'm glad we're keeping the Politics thread. Whatever happened to Greendale?

[pineappleheadindc]

I too would support the Redskins thread. If you're going to have a politics thread, you might as well have one on a local sports team.

There seems to be some interest in this. Mods will be discussing privately and will get back to the board within a week.

[montestewart]

I too would support the Redskins thread. If you're going to have a politics thread, you might as well have one on a local sports team.

And I definitely agree with not logging in to the politics thread if its not for you. That certainly happened to me a number of months back. I pretty much stopped coming to the board because of it. Its good advice to just not go to the thread if you're in that mindset. More recently I've been trying the politics board again - we'll see how long that lasts.

Stick around. I'm enjoying your contribution.

One thing I like about the Wizards political thread is how many people have highly informed opinions partially because of Washington: they grew up in Washington connected to politics or government, or they came here because of politics or government. Policy people, political junkies, finance and development people, economists, etc. all throwing out pros and cons not merely as bullet points from an article but as pieces of personal experience too. There are also people posting with lesser connections to government--entrepreneurs, medical professionals, engineers, etc.--often offering an outsider's perspective of the negatives of dealing with the government.

Sure, it gets heated and nasty sometimes, and the level of argument and support occasionally gets weak or fuzzy, but I'll easily take it over the comment section of virtually any news site. And no matter how heated it gets, AFM always seems to pull it back from the brink. I generally like the politics thread, including the people and opinions with which I (sometimes strenuously) disagree.

A couple that my wife and I are friends with, old friends and neighbors too (we talk regularly) have views that line up very well with Nate's views. We rarely agree on politics, and boy, do we let each other know that. Still, we both occasionally concede points, because we actually listen to each other. I considered it a minor victory when I got one of them to admit, regarding Trump, "Well, he is a little unsavory." Politics aside, they are "salt of the earth" people, and I've seen them go the extra mile to assist every kind of person.

[Illuminaire]

I am always in support of more communication. I'm glad that the mods here support things like the politics thread. The dialogue there can some times be more of monologues-on-parallel, but it's still a cool thing to have. Bubbles are for the weak.

The only thing I wish I could improve about the politics thread is to encourage people to label each other less. I know that's hard to avoid but, I think the quality of conversation would improve if we all (including myself) dropped the easy labels and just focused on the content of the conversation.

[nate33]

I am always in support of more communication. I'm glad that the mods here support things like the politics thread. The dialogue there can some times be more of monologues-on-parallel, but it's still a cool thing to have. Bubbles are for the weak.

The only thing I wish I could improve about the politics thread is to encourage people to label each other less. I know that's hard to avoid but, I think the quality of conversation would improve if we all (including myself) dropped the easy labels and just focused on the content of the conversation.

I'm going to try and do my best in this regard.

[payitforward]

I find myself schooled by Doc's post & by SFAM's post. The ability to rise above what offends you -- but cannot actually cause you real harm individually -- is a useful form of wisdom. It gives you an opportunity to engage whoever did the offending (almost certainly unintentionally & unwittingly). It's foolish to waste that opportunity for dialogue.

Moreover, however distasteful I find a person's ideas, however strongly I disagree with an idea, none of that gives me any rights except the most important right -- to engage the person & the ideas using thoughtfulness & facts. Hence it was foolish of me to find reasons (however sound they might seem on their own) to justify closing down opportunities of that kind.

I have already apologized, but I don't think another apology to nate would be out of order: I'm particularly sorry, nate, for concluding that you viewed the politics thread as "a platform" -- a vehicle for your own ideas rather than a place for exchange. I will be grateful to you if you are able to accept my apology. Today, tomorrow, next week or any time you feel able to.

Perhaps this exchange is useful enough not to justify my overreaction, no, but at least to provide some benefit emerging from it.

[pineappleheadindc]

I too would support the Redskins thread. If you're going to have a politics thread, you might as well have one on a local sports team.

And I definitely agree with not logging in to the politics thread if its not for you. That certainly happened to me a number of months back. I pretty much stopped coming to the board because of it. Its good advice to just not go to the thread if you're in that mindset. More recently I've been trying the politics board again - we'll see how long that lasts.

Stick around. I'm enjoying your contribution.

One thing I like about the Wizards political thread is how many people have highly informed opinions partially because of Washington: they grew up in Washington connected to politics or government, or they came here because of politics or government. Policy people, political junkies, finance and development people, economists, etc. all throwing out pros and cons not merely as bullet points from an article but as pieces of personal experience too. There are also people posting with lesser connections to government--entrepreneurs, medical professionals, engineers, etc.--often offering an outsider's perspective of the negatives of dealing with the government.

Sure, it gets heated and nasty sometimes, and the level of argument and support occasionally gets weak or fuzzy, but I'll easily take it over the comment section of virtually any news site. And no matter how heated it gets, AFM always seems to pull it back from the brink. I generally like the politics thread, including the people and opinions with which I (sometimes strenuously) disagree.

A couple that my wife and I are friends with, old friends and neighbors too (we talk regularly) have views that line up very well with Nate's views. We rarely agree on politics, and boy, do we let each other know that. Still, we both occasionally concede points, because we actually listen to each other. I considered it a minor victory when I got one of them to admit, regarding Trump, "Well, he is a little unsavory." Politics aside, they are "salt of the earth" people, and I've seen them go the extra mile to assist every kind of person.

I want to echo Monte's comment to sfam. Your recent postings on the politics board has been really enjoyable to read. Not necessarily because of any specific policy stance you've taken. But you write and reason well and it's nice to see a new, active voice to the mix.

[pineappleheadindc]

I find myself schooled by Doc's post & by SFAM's post. The ability to rise above what offends you -- but cannot actually cause you real harm individually -- is a useful form of wisdom. It gives you an opportunity to engage whoever did the offending (almost certainly unintentionally & unwittingly). It's foolish to waste that opportunity for dialogue.

Moreover, however distasteful I find a person's ideas, however strongly I disagree with an idea, none of that gives me any rights except the most important right -- to engage the person & the ideas using thoughtfulness & facts. Hence it was foolish of me to find reasons (however sound they might seem on their own) to justify closing down opportunities of that kind.

I have already apologized, but I don't think another apology to nate would be out of order: I'm particularly sorry, nate, for concluding that you viewed the politics thread as "a platform" -- a vehicle for your own ideas rather than a place for exchange. I will be grateful to you if you are able to accept my apology. Today, tomorrow, next week or any time you feel able to.

Perhaps this exchange is useful enough not to justify my overreaction, no, but at least to provide some benefit emerging from it.

If I may comment here where I'm not needed, this is my personal opinion.

You own nobody an apology, PIF. You are a valued and important member of this board. I, for one, enjoy your passion -- both on the basketball side and the politics thread. You expressed your opinion, we're all moving on.

No harm, no foul. Consider the politics thread similar to having to play against Oakley in his prime. You're sometimes gonna take an elbow (and give out some too). But in the end, everything is good.

Keep on keeping on, PIF.