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The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Thread:

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Post#1 The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Thread:
Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:35 pm by Chaos Revenant

Honestly, I felt it was deserved after that disgusting press conference where he praised the coaching staff for riding a still loaded (how many teams can say they had 142 games of all-stars?) and essentially doing what they've been doing for the past 5 years.

Here's the thing - for every amazing move he makes, he makes a completely awful one. For every Caron Butler, there's an Etan Thomas. For every Deshawn Stevenson, there's a Darius Songalia. For every Andray Blatche, there's an Olesky Pecherov.

Furthermore, he simply won't make the "big move". He pulled off a scam job with Brown, but it's not like that was a risk - we had to dump him. Where is the KG type move, the Gasol type move, or even the Wallace type move that tweaks the team enough to get to the next level?

We got Butler and Stevenson, but we also got outright mediocrity in Songalia and Thomas (and an essentially redundant 1st in Pecherov, over many, many superior players)

I think Young will be a star, but Young should have been a top 10 pick, and there were rumblings about Young at #5. McGuire might be solid but he's not a sure thing - a typical #2 pick.

But its more than just the moves - it's the whole "fiddler in burning Rome" mentality I just seem to get from him. We have the same problems year after year, yet nothing is done to fix them.

2004 we had a bad defense. We lose our best defender (though get Caron).
2005 we had a bad defense. We overpay Etan Thomas and get Blatche, who will help, but not then.
2006 we had a bad defense. We overpay Darius Songalia and get two projects who might not ever pan out. We fail to even try for KG or Gasol. We let Thibodeau get away who builds a championship defense in Boston (and don't say Ayers because we had a bad defense last year too)
2007 we had a bad defense. We draft the worst defensive player in the draft and sell our 2nd round potential steal. We fail to do anything about a coaching staff which repeatedly makes the same mistakes.

See the pattern?

Keep in mind that he had a similar pattern in Milwaukee (bad defense, "Big 3" with little defense, overpaid role players, etc, etc). Granted that team nearly got to the finals, but Karl >>>>>>>>>> Jordan.
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Post#2 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:37 pm by Halcyon

To be fair, we probably lost Thibodeau because of Eddie Jordan, not because of EG. I believe EG tried to bring him here.
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Post#3 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:39 pm by Higga

I'm also a bit peeved that EG isn't at least trying to make a big move. Just once I'd like to at least HEAR our names in rumors(legitimate ones, not Peter Vescey fantasies). My guess is EG has looked at our roster and has decided that he won't make any rash moves until he sees a fully healthy team from start to finish(well reasonably healthy I suppose). We're not exactly littered with tradable assets such as potential young studs or big time expirings like the Celtics were last year.
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Post#4 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:42 pm by Dat2U

Obviously this organization is not concerned with winning, just competing and maintaining.

As long as we can get 2-3 home playoff games a year, nothing will ever change.
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Post#5 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:45 pm by Chaos Revenant

Well, that depends if "breaking up the core" is off the table. I would have traded any 2 of the big 3 for KG last year (though not Butler AND Arenas), and we had Young and Blatche at the very least.

Let's see

Butler = Jefferson
Young > Green
Blatche >> Gomes
Jamison >>> Ratliff

They could give better picks but that's it. I think the big problem (as in Milwaukee) is the adherence to the Big 3 concept...by the time they figured out it wasn't working, it was too late.
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Post#6 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:45 pm by Wizards2Lottery

I am ready to give these schmucks one more season. If we don't make it out of the first round this year I want everyone in the front office and the coaching staff fired.

I am seriously sick of mediocrity but I'm willing to wait just this one year. If we fail again and the same band of idiots is back next year, I am seriously considering to stop watching the NBA.
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Post#7 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:47 pm by Higga

Chaos Revenant wrote:I think the big problem (as in Milwaukee) is the adherence to the Big 3 concept...by the time they figured out it wasn't working, it was too late.


The "Big Three" concept can work...assuming you have the right three players. The last two NBA Champs have essentially been built around "big threes." The only problem is our Big Three is perimeter oriented and mainly one dimensional(though at least Butler tries and is on occasion a decent defender) and we don't have the supporting cast around them.

Dat2U wrote:Obviously this organization is not concerned with winning, just competing and maintaining.

As long as we can get 2-3 home playoff games a year, nothing will ever change.


I don't think it's so much not concerned with winning, as it is too afraid to make a bold move. For every KG type trade there are Jason Kidd or Shaq type trades that end up being devastating and setting your team back for years(albeit still time left on both of those deals, but neither look so hot right now).

EG is like the guy at the poker table who is ultra conservative and waits to only play the big hands. He never loses chunks of his stack at once on big gambles but never seems to cash out the big payday. Methinks he's waiting for another Kwame for Butler type deal to come around, but what are the odds of that?
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Post#8 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:51 pm by Chocolate City Jordanaire

Dat2U wrote:Obviously this organization is not concerned with winning, just competing and maintaining.

As long as we can get 2-3 home playoff games a year, nothing will ever change.
But what they failed to notice is Atlanta and Orlando made major strides and figure to be much impvoved.

Also, Miami and Charlotte did very well. Particularly Miami.

Washington's got a good shot af finishing close to the bottom next season. Their all stars do it with overinflated minutes and at the expense of playing good defense.

They add insult to injure by drafting a shotblocker at the one position they have adequate defense. It's as if they blame Haywood for how the Cavs kill them when it was the porous perimeter defense and small fourwards that got them killed.

Washington's continuity won't win next season. They've made sure they once again have no defense on the perimeter.

Gurnfeld and EJ need ton take note of how both NJ and Milwaukee abandoned their shotjakcing trios in favor of defense. By the time they get a clue the Wizards will be lottery bound like those teams were.
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Post#9 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:02 am by queridiculo

Gilbert0Arenas wrote:I am ready to give these schmucks one more season. If we don't make it out of the first round this year I want everyone in the front office and the coaching staff fired.

I am seriously sick of mediocrity but I'm willing to wait just this one year. If we fail again and the same band of idiots is back next year, I am seriously considering to stop watching the NBA.


Won't happen as long as Pollin is around. Face it, as long as the old guy still has a heartbeat Eddie Jordan will have a job in D.C.

Also, the Walker deal bought EG an attaboy from Pollin and at least two more years.

The sad part is that the tide in East is turning.

Atlanta got a taste last year and they'll be hungry for more, and it's only a matter of time before Brown has the Bobcats somewhat competitive. Add an Orlando team that's only going to get better and a Miami team that all of a sudden looks like a pretty decent squad with Chalmers, Wade, Marion, Beasley and Haslem.
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Post#10 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:19 am by clubbing_caveman

We are not breaking up the big-3 this year. EG will wait at least this year before he decides if a major change is needed. Right now, I think he is looking to bring in one or two veteran players who can score and work well with the big 3...a player or two who will bring us over the top.

He also has given us a good bunch of young players who, with more seasoning and experience, can amount to average or above average players. We have Pech, AB, NY, DMac. Keeping in mind point guards are a "dime a dozen", EG has managed to filled all other spots. These players are also quite trade-able for the right veteran.

I'm not down on EG. This off-season is long. A lot can happen.
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Post#11 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:15 am by bobcatsinfour

You guys need to sign Shawn Chacon now that he's a free agent and MAKE SURE he gets into an argument with Grunfeld. That pretty much sums up how I feel about this draft for the wiz.
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Post#12 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:03 am by TheKingOfVa360

We suck. We drafted a bust in the first round and traded Bill Walker for cash to the NBA champions. I blame the latter on cheap ol Abe Pollin. This team will never go anywhere until he sells the team and he won't do that until he dies.
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Post#13 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:56 am by Chaos Revenant

Not to mention Toronto fixed their biggest problem in one fell swoop, Philly could easily make a big move for Marion/Baron/etc, my opinion that the Bulls mediocrity was a gigantic fluke and Rose will immediately make them competitive, and they'll almost certainly make moves to balance that roster (how about they parlay Noah/Thabo/Hinrich into someone like Dalembert or they could ST Gordon and end up with someone like Okafor - the possibilities are *endless* with that team.)
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Post#14 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:19 am by The Consiglieri

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:We suck. We drafted a bust in the first round and traded Bill Walker for cash to the NBA champions. I blame the latter on cheap ol Abe Pollin. This team will never go anywhere until he sells the team and he won't do that until he dies.


As do I. Maybe a side benefit will be me no longer having to hear how the incompetant's a great owner. Total b.s. If he does philanthropy, good for him and the city, but when it comes to owning sports teams, the #1 thing your judge on is the quality of your leadership in terms of that team. What kind of team do you help build, do you create a culture of winning, is winning the #1 priority etc. From day one of my watching ('86), it's been clear that loyalty to old buddies, and penny pinching have been his two priorities in running the team, and as such, this team has just been about the most unsuccessful team across that 23 year stretch along w/the clippers, who not coincidentally also have a terrible owner. Walker for cash? You've got to be ----ing me! What a horrible joke. I didnt mind the first pick, I could see the sense in it, but when you land a guy w/walkers upside that late, and trade him just so some 800 year old coot can save a couple of stray bills in his wallet you're on your way to throwing your fan base into the garbage. Incredibly short sighted idiotic move. Even if it doesnt hurt us and Walker becomes nothing, it doesnt negate the fact that the move was 100% about cheapness rather than sound basketball decision making.

The joke's on us. As per always. Can't way till Ted takes over.
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Post#15 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:24 am by Donkey McDonkerton

who is Grunfield?


I do know Grunfeld >>>> Chaos Revenant
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Post#16 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:06 am by 301baller

as much as i didn't want to believe it, grunfeld absolutely sucks as GM. it's like he's not watching what other successful teams are doing and still believes this team with this roster, with this light in the ass frontcourt can compete in the East. newsflash- IT CAN'T. The lakers showed in the finals that you can't win on finesse and scoring alone and not only does he NOT draft a bruiser and rebounder which we sorely need, he drafts a light in the ass center, and trades an explosive scorer for ????????

When is this front office gonna realize that you need more muscle in the front court? i don't know who's front office is more incompetent, the wiz or the redskins
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Post#17 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:08 am by Chaos Revenant

What's with the ad hominem? Is there any inaccuracy to what I said? Grunfield has made one really awesome move, a bunch of "TBD" moves, and some absolutely horrible moves. Simple as that.
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Post#18 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:14 am by nate33

Higga wrote:EG is like the guy at the poker table who is ultra conservative and waits to only play the big hands. He never loses chunks of his stack at once on big gambles but never seems to cash out the big payday. Methinks he's waiting for another Kwame for Butler type deal to come around, but what are the odds of that?

Good analogy.

EG is essentially a conservative GM. His strategy is to build a decent, winning organization, stockpile assets, and then hope for the stars to align for a major move to put us over the top. Overall, I think it's the right strategy. Sure, a team can sometimes be successful by making wild gambles like Ainge did with Boston. But more often than not, you end up with a situation like Dallas trading for Kidd, or Phoenix trading for Shaq.

I still say that EG is doing well. I regret not going after Gasol, but maybe we did and Memphis simply didn't like the package. After missing out on Gasol, I haven't seen any other available star worth the gamble. As fishercob has pointed out several times, our next window of opportunity for a blockbuster trade comes next year when Blatche and Young are (hopefully) at peak value and Etan and AD are expiring contracts. If we're still a muddling 45-win team at that point and EG doesn't make a move, THEN I'll call for his head.
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Post#19 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:34 am by Chaos Revenant

Well, at least stockpile assets that can help the team in the short term too; would CDR have been a bad pick at 18? Or Batum? Or Greene?
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Post#20 Re: The Amazingly Sucky Ernie Grunfield Threa
Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:37 am by Da HomeTeam

I think much of this has to do with the Ernie vs. Eddie tension. Trying to remake the team in his image vs. trying to still produce a winner under EJ. That IMO is the reason why we're just treading water. Throw in Abe reluctance to pay the luxury tax and there you go.

I feel like I'm doing a post for skool - but there does not appear to be shared vision for the orgnanization. Nobody seems to be on the same page. Reminds me of a few years ago with Skins we knew there was something going on but didn't really know until Archuletta opened his mouth after the season.

I think EJ & EG are too professional to ever let stuff come out. But clearly there is something going on behind the scenes.
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