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speaking of Buck and Phil (stale threadwise) as said above, I generally
like them and think they are fair but clearly Wizards fans. Which is exactly
what I want.

The last game when Webster made that spin move, Buck (I think) called
it a 180. JMU math me thinks. If you start and finish facing more or less
the same direction, seems to me that would be a 360. OK, I'm nitpicking.

dobrojim wrote:speaking of Buck and Phil (stale threadwise) as said above, I generally
like them and think they are fair but clearly Wizards fans. Which is exactly
what I want.

The last game when Webster made that spin move, Buck (I think) called
it a 180. JMU math me thinks. If you start and finish facing more or less
the same direction, seems to me that would be a 360. OK, I'm nitpicking.

That's just how fast Webster is. He gets through a spin in half the time.

I'm really not a fan of either. Their fandom is fine, but they are consistently using stats -- terrible, stupid, meaningless stats -- to try to illustrate some sort of point. The point is usually that the WIzards are doing something impressive, which is somehow magically incongruous with the team's suckiness.

I wish some producer at CSN would have the balls to make the switch to discussing stats in terms of the very simplistic Four Factors. The broadcasts would be so much better and it would promote a much better understanding of the game amongst viewers.

fish: I've tried for YEARS to get CSN to do something meaningful with their stats. No luck. They're so terrified that viewers "won't understand." Good stats will actually INCREASE their understanding of the game. I did make some headway with Glen Consor back when I was going to games on press pass, but he seems to have backslid some judging by the post-game show. Dave Johnson will sometimes drop in some funky stat I send him.

Here's my look at the Wizards preseason, with the full understanding that preseason numbers don't mean much of anything.

totally agree about the stats

they are useless at best and typically misleading

dobrojim wrote:totally agree about the stats

they are useless at best and typically misleading

Was watching a game with my son one day. Buck kept dropping in those useless stats. Stuff like "Wizards are the third best offensive rebounding team in the league." "Wizards have the second most steals in the NBA." Meanwhile, the Wiz are their usual down 18 in the third quarter.

After like the 5th one, my son says, "If the Wizards are so good at everything, why do they always lose?"

The Wizards have a 3-2 record at home against a defending champion playing the second game of a back-to-back after the all star break. So the Heat could have their hands full tonight.

It was kind of funny listening to Buck take shots at Crawford last year. You could tell he was totally disgusted with Crawford's shot selection and didn't do a great job hiding his feelings lol.

fishercob wrote:I'm really not a fan of either. Their fandom is fine, but they are consistently using stats -- terrible, stupid, meaningless stats -- to try to illustrate some sort of point. The point is usually that the WIzards are doing something impressive, which is somehow magically incongruous with the team's suckiness.

I wish some producer at CSN would have the balls to make the switch to discussing stats in terms of the very simplistic Four Factors. The broadcasts would be so much better and it would promote a much better understanding of the game amongst viewers.

All the meaningful stats just show that the team sucks. Viewers can already see that. The producers probably don't want Phil and Steve to bring down the viewers even more by putting up statistics which just highlight how awful they are.

dandridge 10 wrote:

fishercob wrote:I'm really not a fan of either. Their fandom is fine, but they are consistently using stats -- terrible, stupid, meaningless stats -- to try to illustrate some sort of point. The point is usually that the WIzards are doing something impressive, which is somehow magically incongruous with the team's suckiness.

I wish some producer at CSN would have the balls to make the switch to discussing stats in terms of the very simplistic Four Factors. The broadcasts would be so much better and it would promote a much better understanding of the game amongst viewers.

All the meaningful stats just show that the team sucks. Viewers can already see that. The producers probably don't want Phil and Steve to bring down the viewers even more by putting up statistics which just highlight how awful they are.

So they should lie? It's insulting.

"Well, folks, as you can see, the Wizards are really struggling in this game. The main reason why is this advanced stat, which shows that opposing defenses are forcing them into, or the Wizards are settling for, an unusually high number of long two pointers. The Wizard who is most guilty of this is Jordan Crawford, who has taken..."

I just don't see a problem with that. How is that bringing the viewers down? "Here is why we suck. Here is the player most guilty of this weakness. I talked with that player about it yesterday and he said he was aware of the problem and coach has told him to try this approach to addressing it. But as you can see today, that's not working -- the opposing team is countering that strategy by doing this."

I would LOVE to have an announcer like that. Why do "color" guys have to be superficial idiots? Why can't they explain what's going on, describe some moves and countermoves?

fishercob wrote:

dandridge 10 wrote:

fishercob wrote:I'm really not a fan of either. Their fandom is fine, but they are consistently using stats -- terrible, stupid, meaningless stats -- to try to illustrate some sort of point. The point is usually that the WIzards are doing something impressive, which is somehow magically incongruous with the team's suckiness.

I wish some producer at CSN would have the balls to make the switch to discussing stats in terms of the very simplistic Four Factors. The broadcasts would be so much better and it would promote a much better understanding of the game amongst viewers.

All the meaningful stats just show that the team sucks. Viewers can already see that. The producers probably don't want Phil and Steve to bring down the viewers even more by putting up statistics which just highlight how awful they are.

So they should lie? It's insulting.

Are they lying or they just showing correct stats that don't mean anything. To me, there is a difference.

I think "lying" is a bit strong, but words like "misleading" or "incorrect" definitely apply.

When Buckhantz says, "The Wizards are the third best offensive rebounding team in the league..." and CSN puts up a stat showing team offensive rebounds per game...well...that stat doesn't mean what he's saying it means.

Whether they're intentionally misleading, I don't know. It's possible they're just ignorant. That's kind of a stretch considering how much information is readily available, but it's possible.

Honestly, for me, it really never bothered me about the color analyst not getting into that much detail, especially regarding stats. It is pretty apparent to me during any given game why we are not doing well or why we are doing well. I would like Phil and Steve to be more critical of the Wizards play and describe what they would do to make changes to improve (I always liked Hubie Brown in this regard). However, I don't necessarily need the stats to back it up.

I'm more or less with you on the color analyst using stats. I'd rather have the analyst do "chalk talk," which Phil doesn't do either.

When they use stats on the broadcast, I'd prefer it be something that actually has meaning. And here's the thing -- there are easily explained stats readily available.

Nivek wrote:I think "lying" is a bit strong, but words like "misleading" or "incorrect" definitely apply.

When Buckhantz says, "The Wizards are the third best offensive rebounding team in the league..." and CSN puts up a stat showing team offensive rebounds per game...well...that stat doesn't mean what he's saying it means.

Whether they're intentionally misleading, I don't know. It's possible they're just ignorant. That's kind of a stretch considering how much information is readily available, but it's possible.

Sounds like what all the politicians do!

dandridge 10 wrote:

Nivek wrote:I think "lying" is a bit strong, but words like "misleading" or "incorrect" definitely apply.

When Buckhantz says, "The Wizards are the third best offensive rebounding team in the league..." and CSN puts up a stat showing team offensive rebounds per game...well...that stat doesn't mean what he's saying it means.

Whether they're intentionally misleading, I don't know. It's possible they're just ignorant. That's kind of a stretch considering how much information is readily available, but it's possible.

Sounds like what all the politicians do!

The media can be the BIGGEST offenders of misleading the public and "exaggerating" the truth. I hate that they also use the tactic when giving us the latest sports news.

Thought that you guys might enjoy my latest youtube uploads from an '98 Wizards - Warriors game:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctEOnb7M3hU[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYNf7bzE0so[/youtube]

Didn't know whether this deserves a thread for itself or not, so I figured that I'll drop this off in this thread.

Some basketball sages I know think Jan Vesely’s game is very one-dimensional, all activity around the basket, no real touch or discernible nose for defense. They call the Wizards’ second-year forward Yawn Vesely.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wi ... story.html

Yawn Vesely

maljanNBAfan wrote:

dandridge 10 wrote:

Nivek wrote:I think "lying" is a bit strong, but words like "misleading" or "incorrect" definitely apply.

When Buckhantz says, "The Wizards are the third best offensive rebounding team in the league..." and CSN puts up a stat showing team offensive rebounds per game...well...that stat doesn't mean what he's saying it means.

Whether they're intentionally misleading, I don't know. It's possible they're just ignorant. That's kind of a stretch considering how much information is readily available, but it's possible.

Sounds like what all the politicians do!

The media can be the BIGGEST offenders of misleading the public and "exaggerating" the truth. I hate that they also use the tactic when giving us the latest sports news.

I love it when relevant, descriptive stats are used objectively to inform. What i don't like is the media, even in basketball games, just like with politics, only shows one side or what they want to report. I get sick of hearing ad nauseum about Lebron or D Wade's hangnail. The stats they show are how many points Lebron and other stars show. Same guys over and over, and nothing beyond the obvious stuff, too. I would much rather see a stat that points to why the Heat are a good defensive team, despite having superstars. I don't worry too much about the game stats because I generally will follow box scores, too, while watching a game. (No life and a bit scary, I know!)

I agree, Nivek, that stats can help viewers understand things a lot better. I do believe, unfortunately, that many people misunderstand statistical presentations. A local football coach (Norm Chow) made a statement the other day that really set me off. I've heard this statement before. I'm not a numbers guy. I just go by results."

When it comes to dollars and cents, everybody is real specific about the numbers. Why don't they appreciate stats as a tool to indicate trends in sports?