GT - Lakers @ Wizards 12/05

[BruceO]

I don't think it was a lack of effort on D. If you watch the game alot of stuff was being run through the post where there was an obvious advantage Bynum had over McGee. So it was more of the same over and over and thats where the easy points came out. After an adjustment was made and songaila and Etan was put on him those plays ended. Blatche matched up with Gasol at that point so neutralizing the big guys. With Kobe out of the game we made our comeback. Later we even managed to play Blatche on Bynum.
The bottom line is theres no reason to get upset about this game in the grand scheme of things. Bynum killing us with size initially could have been countered with a heavy dose of haywood and caron messing up the end would be a dose of arenas. Blatche managed to keep up well with Gasol eventually and Odom was being out-impacted by Blatche. Nick did well and trevor ariza was a dumb give away by the magic cause now they had to replace him with petrius. He has one of the longer wingspans and with good athleticism in the NBA for is position. He's playing into his body.
Domininc is rounding into a good perimeter defender. So whats to be upset about. More ping pongs better chance for Blake Griffin. I don't know why we;ve never tanked intentionally, look how good the top picks have been. Look at Rose, Mayo, Beasley, Oden, Lebron, Wade, mayo. Even bargagni and Bogut are not that bad. Embrace the tank, no point winning games only to get knocked out in first round. It's better to get a draft freebee and be ready to win for years to come and not get blown out in the meanwhile or have bad showings from our long term players

[BruceO]

I'd trade caron for travis outlaw and rudy fernandez..or batum

Put down the bong dude.

no seriously..I don't think portland is dumb enough to do it though

[BruceO]

Etan Thomas
Salary: $6,864,200 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 3.7 REB: 2.9 AST: 0.2 PER: 10.70
Photo: Caron Butler
Caron Butler
Salary: $9,249,980 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 21.3 REB: 6.6 AST: 4.2 PER: 21.20

Outgoing Players: Rudy Fernandez, Nicolas Batum, Raef LaFrentz, Travis Outlaw


Rudy Fernandez
Salary: $1,084,080 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 11.6 REB: 2.8 AST: 2.0 PER: 18.35
Photo: Nicolas Batum
Nicolas Batum
Salary: $1,040,640 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 5.8 REB: 2.7 AST: 1.1 PER: 15.44
Photo: Raef LaFrentz
Raef LaFrentz
Salary: $12,722,500 Years Remaining: 1
Photo: Travis Outlaw
Travis Outlaw
Salary: $4,000,000 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 11.1 REB: 4.1 AST: 1.4 PER: 14.13

Outgoing Players: Etan Thomas, Caron Butler

[Donkey McDonkerton]

Etan Thomas
Salary: $6,864,200 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 3.7 REB: 2.9 AST: 0.2 PER: 10.70
Photo: Caron Butler
Caron Butler
Salary: $9,249,980 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 21.3 REB: 6.6 AST: 4.2 PER: 21.20

Outgoing Players: Rudy Fernandez, Nicolas Batum, Raef LaFrentz, Travis Outlaw


Rudy Fernandez
Salary: $1,084,080 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 11.6 REB: 2.8 AST: 2.0 PER: 18.35
Photo: Nicolas Batum
Nicolas Batum
Salary: $1,040,640 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 5.8 REB: 2.7 AST: 1.1 PER: 15.44
Photo: Raef LaFrentz
Raef LaFrentz
Salary: $12,722,500 Years Remaining: 1
Photo: Travis Outlaw
Travis Outlaw
Salary: $4,000,000 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 11.1 REB: 4.1 AST: 1.4 PER: 14.13

Outgoing Players: Etan Thomas, Caron Butler

YOU LOSE!

[BruceO]

Etan Thomas
Salary: $6,864,200 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 3.7 REB: 2.9 AST: 0.2 PER: 10.70
Photo: Caron Butler
Caron Butler
Salary: $9,249,980 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 21.3 REB: 6.6 AST: 4.2 PER: 21.20

Outgoing Players: Rudy Fernandez, Nicolas Batum, Raef LaFrentz, Travis Outlaw


Rudy Fernandez
Salary: $1,084,080 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 11.6 REB: 2.8 AST: 2.0 PER: 18.35
Photo: Nicolas Batum
Nicolas Batum
Salary: $1,040,640 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 5.8 REB: 2.7 AST: 1.1 PER: 15.44
Photo: Raef LaFrentz
Raef LaFrentz
Salary: $12,722,500 Years Remaining: 1
Photo: Travis Outlaw
Travis Outlaw
Salary: $4,000,000 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 11.1 REB: 4.1 AST: 1.4 PER: 14.13

Outgoing Players: Etan Thomas, Caron Butler

YOU LOSE!

Prove it

[Kanyewest]

I would consider starting D-Mac over Stevenson now.

[miller31time]

Didn't get to see the game but I noticed McGee played all of 8 minutes.

He must have sucked big-time against Bynum (which would explain the horrendous +/-).

And for those saying we didn't give consistent effort, just looking at the box-score, it seemed sort of tit-for-tat. Los Angeles won the 1st by around 10. We won the 2nd by about 10. LA won the third by about 10. We won the 4th by about 10.

Obviously, I can't give an accurate assessment since I didn't watch the game but from a purely statistical objective, there didn't seem to be an obvious lack of effort.

[Mr. Grundle]

And for those saying we didn't give consistent effort, just looking at the box-score, it seemed sort of tit-for-tat. Los Angeles won the 1st by around 10. We won the 2nd by about 10. LA won the third by about 10. We won the 4th by about 10.

This can be simplified by saying, when Stevenson was in the game we lost, when Young was in the game we won.

[LyricalRico]

Didn't get to see the game but I noticed McGee played all of 8 minutes.

He must have sucked big-time against Bynum (which would explain the horrendous +/-).

Yeah, he couldn't stop Bynum (who has somehow turned into Howard-lite ). Blatche is bigger and much better defensively than McGee is at this point. I say, if McGee is only going to play around 10 minutes, just start Blatche.

And for those saying we didn't give consistent effort, just looking at the box-score, it seemed sort of tit-for-tat. Los Angeles won the 1st by around 10. We won the 2nd by about 10. LA won the third by about 10. We won the 4th by about 10.

This can be simplified by saying, when Stevenson was in the game we lost, when Young was in the game we won.

[clubbing_caveman]

+/- pts
C.Butler -7 26
A.Jamison +1 15
J.McGee -17 8
D.Stevenson -17 3
D.Brown -13 3
A.Blatche +14 18
D.Songaila -7 2
E.Thomas +4 6
N.Young +25 13
A.Daniels +5 10
D.McGuire +2 0

....and check out the +/- for Young and Blatche.

[Ji]

im sure EG realizes that he could get a top 5 pick and he dosent care if we win or when Arenas comes back. Im sure he is like the rest of us and wants that lottery pick

[hands11]

If the Wizards really want to stop being losers, they would put in the energy and effort for 28 minutes, not 8.

So you still want them to coast for 20 minutes?



Seriously, I don't think it's a lack of effort. It's that they don't play their best lineup until they absolutely have to. Early in the game it's about getting minutes for certain guys. Then, when their backs are against the wall, the best players play.

If you are a 3-14 team and this is the lineup that allowed you to go on a 18-4 run against the Los Angeles Lakers in the 4th quarter...

Blatche
Jamison
Butler
Young
Daniels

...there's no reason for that to not be your starting lineup the next game. But they'll probably extend DeBrick's consecutive game started streak and fall into another hole they have to dig out of.

C'mon Tapscott - you're BETTER than that.

Sounds like something that Hands11 guy said like 3 games ago.

I loved the idea of starting McGee over Etan because of what we were seeing from him but after seeing that for a few games it became apparent he wasn't able to pull off the starting job because he doesn't defend the post well enough yet. Back to back games he got crushed and got 2 quick fouls in each. Teams started to target him.

I was slow to come up with the Blatche idea at starting center because I want him playing PF but without Haywood and with McGee being so young, Blatche is the best answer. While young, he still has experience. And without EJ coaching, he is more relaxed. That would put McGee against less talented centers until he learns at little more. He is only getting 20 minutes anyway. I'd rather see those minutes against easier centers so he can gain confidence and be productive.

Did you hear his mother interviewed ? She said he is 7-1 now and still growing and that kids in her family bloom late. The kid still hasn't even started to filled out.

When AD is healthy enough to drive, he is our best PG. That at least makes up for DS's lack of driving.

As for DS. I thought he should has started coming off the bench a while ago.. last year min. Look, if he can only earn a few million a year after all his years in the league, then he isn't a starter. NY has way more upside as a SG. Actually, I didn't even think DS was needed on this team. Specially if we kept Mason.

NY
He can shot from all over including the 3
He can drive and dunk
He can generate his own shot - our best 1 on 1 player healthy.
He can block shots
He is long and quick

DS
spot up 3 point shooter only - when hot
decent defender but not long
can't generate his own shot
does't drive. Doesn't dunk

Is there really a question which is better ? One describes a starter. One describes a bench player.
DS isnt even our best man defender... McGuire is.

Blatche, Jamison, Butler, Young

These guys should be getting the lions share of the minutes 35+.

And for all the DSONG hate, the guy is one of our better players BB IQ wise and effort wise. If he wasn't a slow white guy, he would be awesome. He is beefy like ET but he has a shot and can pass. Probably our best strong PF.

So you can start AD if healthy

Blatche, Jamison, Butler, Young, AD

or you can also go

Blatche, DSONG, Jamison, Butler, Young - that a pretty big athletic line up. While another team may be able to out run them, in turn, we should be able to get them in foul trouble while raking up pts.

Closest we got to this was Blatche, DSONG, Jamison, Young, DS. They were +2

Both line ups would be good though. 3 vets who are smart and experienced, 2 youngs with talent.

Then fill in the rest of the mins with McGee and McGuire. Thats 8 players.
Blatche, McGee, DSONG, AJ, CB, DMAC, NY, AD

They should all be getting 20-40 mins each.

DS and Dixon should be on the same level. Bring in which ever you need depending on the situation.
Both can be used as spark players.

DS to shoot 3s. If he is hot, let him roll.
Dixon to run.
Etan for extra beef
D Brown to run at PG against small PGs or when AD can't go.

Tapps is still working with the line ups. And even with us not having that worked out, we still played LA really tight.


DS should be rolled

[hands11]

Are you guys serious? I don't understand this "good effort" and "good game" crap. If the Wizards put in the type of effort that they do in last 8:00 minutes for the rest of the game, they would not be 3-14 this season. Its the same ol' story with this team. They play with no energy until they get behind by 15-20 points. Then, they make the obligatory last dash effort to try to squeek out a victory only to fall short. I hate to say it, but Butler is one of the worst offenders in coasting until its too late. Frankly, I'm sick of it. If the Wizards really want to stop being losers, they would put in the energy and effort for 28 minutes, not 8.

I think the Lakers going into cruise control had something to do with it. The Wizards simply don't have the firepower to beat the Lakers when they're giving 100% effort.

Maybe that was part of it; however, you can't tell me that you saw the same kind of effort from the Wizards the rest of the game as the 4th quarter. For weeks, the Wizards have been talking about giving more effort in the 1st and 3rd quarters. Yet, they always come out flat. How can that happen when you are 3-14?

The point is I'm not just talking about this game. Pretty much every game is the same story, and this dates back for several years. I'm just not going to give the Wizards any credit for coming back in the game when it was their own damn fault that they were so far behind in the first place.

You put DS in the line up. That is how that can happen.

[hands11]

And for those saying we didn't give consistent effort, just looking at the box-score, it seemed sort of tit-for-tat. Los Angeles won the 1st by around 10. We won the 2nd by about 10. LA won the third by about 10. We won the 4th by about 10.

This can be simplified by saying, when Stevenson was in the game we lost, when Young was in the game we won.

Pretty much.

NY was +25

I said it before. We have like one of the top 5 benches in the league but our starters are lower 25% or worse. That right there tells you that you are out of balance.

DSleezy is the new most identifiable problem on this team.

I give Tapps some time to adjust because you don't want to show up and just piss everyone off by benching people, but DS has had his chance. I move would be reasonable at this point.

You benched Etan out of the starters. That was the first move. Now it's time to move DS to the bench along with McGee.

This stuff should have been worked out in the off-season.

[BruceO]

Well I think the simple reason Nick and Blatche are coming off the bench is because Nick is a scoring Wing and Blatche is our best scoring Big. Their offense is one of the biggest things we need them for. It comes at a premium if they are off the bench because they are playing against worse defenders and also because there's people in the starting lineup doing that role. Caron's scoring with the ball in his hand and Jamison is as well as the big in the starting lineup. Imagine having all those guys in the starting lineup and leaving the second unit with no one to rely on.
It's worth a shot I agree. I think Nick and Blatche's plus and minus will reduce. Less of an advantage will be gained on the second unit with AD, Deshawn, McGee, Songaila and Mcguire playing. Who will be your go to scorer? How will offense be generated? None can create their own shot.

Also about my suggested Caron and Etan trade for Lafrenz, Batum, Rudy Fernandez and Travis outlaw trade. I'd like more than immediate dismissal. The fact we think it's a sour deal for us makes me think it can be a possible trade because we gain long term. I would welcome the idea of dumping etan off and getting 12mill off the books at the end of this year with Lafrenz. Portland would welcome having caron in their lineup. I would welcome having those three young players at a low salary.
Rudy's really good. If you watched the olympics you saw him compete with Kobe and Wade and he has done so too in the NBA. He's pretty much able to be if not yet already as good as Manu ginobli. As good as Nick Young if not better. Then throw in a 6 8' smooth player in Batum. Granted I don't think he's aggresive enough offensively and his rebound numbers see saw based on his defensive assignment. If you watched and rewatched our game against portland he did a good job defensively against Caron. Caron couldn't get anything off until later. That was mostly fast break points. Caron couldn't create one on one against him. I went through his records predraft in europe and he is known for his defensive ability. I also went through the game logs for portland to see what his production is and his opponents. They've not played well offensively against that SF tandem of Outlaw and Batum provide.
I also think Outlaw is underrated in many circles. He's very clutch and is a tough assignment. He can shoot the three well has good size and length as well. Then the possibility of Dominic coming in as well gives us three good small forwards. Three point shooting is a major strength portland has from rudy, outlaw and Steve Blake. Now imagine our three point shooting coming from Gil, Nick, Rudy, outlaw and jamison.
We would be practically trading Caron for a bigger small forward than him, a true small forward who's good defensively and a shooting guard who's a ginobli type player who just gets things done. With Nick and Rudy manning the two guard, being very young and competing against each other our future is really bright at that position. Their production at this point together would be already better than anything we've already had at that position. I think replacing Caron is not difficult. In the last few years Al Thornton, Marvin Williams, Travis outlaw, Danny granger have all entered the league and they are able to compete against Caron.
I'd pull the trigger so fast. Start a real youth movement, rebuild with good youthful players who come from a team where their contributions at this stage as rookies has led to a good west coast team already.

[LyricalRico]

Also about my suggested Caron and Etan trade for Lafrenz, Batum, Rudy Fernandez and Travis outlaw trade. I'd like more than immediate dismissal. The fact we think it's a sour deal for us makes me think it can be a possible trade because we gain long term. I would welcome the idea of dumping etan off and getting 12mill off the books at the end of this year with Lafrenz. Portland would welcome having caron in their lineup. I would welcome having those three young players at a low salary.

I'd love to make that deal if we were rebuilding, but we're not. Had we let Gil and AJ walk this past summer a deal like that would make a lot of sense. But I don't think they'd commit the kind of dollars they did to Gil and AJ only to turn around and trade for guys who won't be fully ready for a few more years.

[BruceO]

Do you think our chances are better with Gil, Caron, and Aj playing at this level to win a championship vs a late twenty something Gil with a peaked Rudy Fernandez, Batum, nick Young, Blatche, McGee and a early thirty something haywood. Plus a possible high draft pick like Blake Griffin.
This is without consideration for what we do with AJ