Christmas Is Ruined: Wiz @ Cavs (12/25/08)

[Danchan]

my family watched the game at the dinner table. I switched away by the end of third after I told them how the refs would give Cavs the win regardless. came true.

This sh*t makes me sick. It's worse when you get cavs fan coming in and say "we have a star, you don't. This is the nba"

[cavsfan_osiris]

Oh that's funny. Because I could've sworn that even when Arenas does play against the Cavs the "questionable calls" STILL manage to lose us the game. You think you're tired of hearing the officiating complaints from Wiz fans year after year? Well, we're tired of SEEING IT OCCUR OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. If that's the NBA then I'm done with it all together. I'd rather go back to being a 10 year old professional wrestling fan with that kind of scripted drama and BS. Believe me, you Cavs fans will know how it feels when Lebron goes somewhere else and starts getting these calls playing against your team. Then you'll be done with the NBA too.

This is why I dislike the NBA because more often than not, you need a superstar to win. Stern has done a bad job marketing this league as a star's league instead of allowing for teams that play good team basketball to win. Don't get me wrong, the current ensemble of the Wizards is not one of those teams.

So we have to keep watching the NBA because the officiating is horrible every night? Going into this game, I knew the officiating was going to be bad after watching the Celtics get screwed by the officials in LA.

So to sum up my views, I disagree with the idea of superstars getting calls if they are favored by the officials. But no one is surprised that the Cavs won with a few calls going their way. People are just fed up and disgusted.

I can't disagree with either of you. It's not right, but it's just a part of NBA basketball. As a long time Cleveland fan I've suffered through many situations like the Wiz went through last night.

I wish the NBA wasn't like that. I hated what they did to Dallas in the finals. Even as a Cleveland fan I hated some of calls that went against the Wiz in the post-season, but it's a business. I know the minute LeBron leaves Cleveland, should he choose to, the Cavs will go back to not getting calls and losing games in a similar fashion to how the Wiz lost last night.

There is no question in my mind the Wiz played better and deserved to win, but the Wiz have to know going down the stretch they will have to be solid in their execution to seal the deal, especially on the road against a respect team like the Cavs. They tried to limp across the finish line and gave the Cavs a chance to take advantage of calls which all went in their favor.

[P'Oed]

Oh that's funny. Because I could've sworn that even when Arenas does play against the Cavs the "questionable calls" STILL manage to lose us the game. You think you're tired of hearing the officiating complaints from Wiz fans year after year? Well, we're tired of SEEING IT OCCUR OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. If that's the NBA then I'm done with it all together. I'd rather go back to being a 10 year old professional wrestling fan with that kind of scripted drama and BS. Believe me, you Cavs fans will know how it feels when Lebron goes somewhere else and starts getting these calls playing against your team. Then you'll be done with the NBA too.

This is why I dislike the NBA because more often than not, you need a superstar to win. Stern has done a bad job marketing this league as a star's league instead of allowing for teams that play good team basketball to win. Don't get me wrong, the current ensemble of the Wizards is not one of those teams.

So we have to keep watching the NBA because the officiating is horrible every night? Going into this game, I knew the officiating was going to be bad after watching the Celtics get screwed by the officials in LA.

So to sum up my views, I disagree with the idea of superstars getting calls if they are favored by the officials. But no one is surprised that the Cavs won with a few calls going their way. People are just fed up and disgusted.

I can't disagree with either of you. It's not right, but it's just a part of NBA basketball. As a long time Cleveland fan I've suffered through many situations like the Wiz went through last night.

I wish the NBA wasn't like that. I hated what they did to Dallas in the finals. Even as a Cleveland fan I hated some of calls that went against the Wiz in the post-season, but it's a business. I know the minute LeBron leaves Cleveland, should he choose to, the Cavs will go back to not getting calls and losing games in a similar fashion to how the Wiz lost last night.

There is no question in my mind the Wiz played better and deserved to win, but the Wiz have to know going down the stretch they will have to be solid in their execution to seal the deal, especially on the road against a respect team like the Cavs. They tried to limp across the finish line and gave the Cavs a chance to take advantage of calls which all went in their favor.

you are, without a doubt, the first Cavs fan I have ever seen that actually gets it. Honestly, I'd give you a standing ovation if we were having this conversation in person. At least I know ALL Cavs fans aren't in denial. You have a great team and I think you'll go really far this year. Us Wiz fans just thought that we had something to cheer about last night and we're extremely upset that it was taken away in such a fashion.

[LyricalRico]

^ Osiris definitely get it. That's why he's the only Cavs fan welcome on this board.

[hands11]

POSITIVES:

--Well played for (as someone mentioned above) 38.5 minutes. (Actually, 46.5 minutes, but I get the point).

--Mike James is better than AD, or at least more exciting when he's on.

--Dominic McGuire starting is better than DeShawn starting. He played Lebron well.

--Blatche did a good job defensively on Ilgauskas.

Sure thing. This team is coming around.

In my book, DMAC has arrived. He reminds me of Big Ben when he was young. He is just focused on rebounds and D. I can see his confidence growing every game. It's great that he is starting so he gets lots of minutes. Two start and he has double digit rebounds in both and he has 7 assists against Cle

Blatche is logging valuable minutes as well which I'm happy about. The kid is still just settling in and maturing in his role.

And James has just been an amazing surprise. I'm starting to believe in his 3 ball. He has been solid.

Now we just need to get NY going. That is the next major focus for this team. Tapps has to get the NY thing worked out.

Also, I think the team has been playing better on D .

There are a lot of positives that just aren't showing up as Ws. For example, we got off to a good start finally. That was a long cry from starting every game in the hole.

Some fans may not like to hear this but I don't think we are that fair away from playing winning ball. You could see that in the Cleveland game. They are supposed to be one of the best and we almost beat them and that was with CB having a bad game. If he was on, it could have been a blow out.

[WizDom]

Maybe Stern wanted us to lose so he can give us that #1 pick

[fishercob]

CCJ/Hands, I agree 100%!! I asked Nate about this in the chat a couple of games ago, and apparently it's pretty labor-intensive to dig up DRtg stats in-season (broken down between the two coaches). But I too "sense" that the Wiz are starting to play better D. He was going to try to look at it over the holidays.

And that's why feeling robbed by the officials really felt like being robbed. It's been such a rough season, and it felt like the Wiz really earned a W last night, only to have it stolen from them. But the silver lining is another ping pong ball. There's lots of good stuff to build on.

[miller31time]

CCJ/Hands, I agree 100%!! I asked Nate about this in the chat a couple of games ago, and apparently it's pretty labor-intensive to dig up DRtg stats in-season (broken down between the two coaches). But I too "sense" that the Wiz are starting to play better D. He was going to try to look at it over the holidays.

And that's why feeling robbed by the officials really felt like being robbed. It's been such a rough season, and it felt like the Wiz really earned a W last night, only to have it stolen from them. But the silver lining is another ping pong ball. There's lots of good stuff to build on.

I just hope we're not seeing better defense because we are wanting to see better defense (the old theory that you see what you want to see, whether it's reality or not).

I'm with you, though. I think we're playing slightly better defense and that there is some improvement, but I just don't trust my lying eyes.

To provide some statistics, though, the Wiz rank 27th in the NBA in defensive efficiency (points allowed per-100 possessions), giving up 111.9pts per contest. But the good news is that that's not much worse than last season, and last season, we had a top-5 post defender in Brendan Haywood.

[lupin]

I think DMac is just Ruffin 2.0, at least until he can make a layup. A team this challenged on both ends just can't be playing 4 on 5. Even Rodman managed to have a 7 ppg career average, I think.

[BruceO]

I have to rewatch the game online. But it was my impression that dominic did most of the work against Lebron. Everyone says Caron did a good job defending Lebron but I only saw Caron defend him in the fourth. Correct me if i'm wrong but remember being happy that Dominic was defending him heads up and Lebron would only get past him when a screen was set. First setting a screen worked for cleveland and then we started sending help on the other side of the screen. That changed in the fourth when he came alive again.
I think the way to play him is have Dmac and some other big defender stay infront of him and keep him out of the lane. Make him a jump shooter and when screens come fly defenders at him. The weakness of all their bigs other than Ilgauskis is they don't IMO hit outside jumpers well. So on a screen i'd rush players at Lebron and leave the big temporarily open when he's outside his range.

[nate33]

CCJ/Hands, I agree 100%!! I asked Nate about this in the chat a couple of games ago, and apparently it's pretty labor-intensive to dig up DRtg stats in-season (broken down between the two coaches). But I too "sense" that the Wiz are starting to play better D. He was going to try to look at it over the holidays.

There's a glitch in Doug Steele's raw stats page. He has the current data for individual players, but he has last year's team data. I can't get the raw stats needed to make the calculation.

[nate33]

I have to rewatch the game online. But it was my impression that dominic did most of the work against Lebron. Everyone says Caron did a good job defending Lebron but I only saw Caron defend him in the fourth. Correct me if i'm wrong but remember being happy that Dominic was defending him heads up and Lebron would only get past him when a screen was set. First setting a screen worked for cleveland and then we started sending help on the other side of the screen. That changed in the fourth when he came alive again.

My recollection is that Caron guarded Lebron quite a bit. I remember early in the 1st quarter thinking DMac would help Butler stay rested because he'd be checking Lebron, but then I was surprised to see that it was actually Butler guarding him.

[LyricalRico]

I think DMac is just Ruffin 2.0, at least until he can make a layup. A team this challenged on both ends just can't be playing 4 on 5. Even Rodman managed to have a 7 ppg career average, I think.

Hey, as long as he doesn't play center I'm fine with that.

Could just be nerves. Think about it - with guys like Butler, Jamison, and Mike James you never really know if you're ever going to get the ball. Especially if the coaches tell you to focus almost exclusively on rebounding and defense. I think the more McGuire plays with the starters, the more comfortable they will be with him. Then you'll start seeing more passes to him and more finishes around the rim.

[hands11]

I think DMac is just Ruffin 2.0, at least until he can make a layup. A team this challenged on both ends just can't be playing 4 on 5. Even Rodman managed to have a 7 ppg career average, I think.

I think a lot of this teams problems are mental/maturity. We have a lot of mentally weak/inexperienced players on this team. The talent is there but they choke/get to in their heads or are to inexperienced to play up to their physical skills.

Lets see if I can break them down into groups so we can see who has improved and where we need work. This is a very important factor because it's not just talent that wins. You need players who know what to do, what they can do, what needs done, and who make good decission in crunch time.

Examples of how this can go wrong would be like Pippen that one year early in his partnering with MJ. He was mentally weak in the playoffs. He got a migraine before one game and choked. I remember Cooper one year for LA being in a terrible mental rut and couldn't buy a 3 ball even though he was usually a great 3 pt shooter. This is the difference maker. I don't think people take about this factor enough. The 6 inches between their ears matters a lot. Sadly, how a player is handled early in their career establish mental conditions that they never over come or that at least delay their development. Haywood is a good example of something that wasn't handled well but who over came that anyway. It just took longer then it should have. Had Pippen not been handled properly I don't think he would have been the player we saw.

It's a judgment call evaluating who will never likely be solid mentally and who just needs more time and grooming. Players like CB have developed their mental toughness through the course of their life. You could call them self made. But other players need help once they arrive in the NBA. Specially if they come out early.

I did a break down of this a while ago to highlight what I thought was the weakness of this team.

We have some players who are solid mentally. They are tough, confident and mature. They get the most of of their physical talent. One of top NBA teams, my guess is that you want 80% of your players to be in this group and 100% of your starters. They don't all need to be amazing physically but the do need to be mentally.

Tier 1

CB, AJ, DSONG, Dixon

Mike James - I only have a small sample to evaluate him but I'm starting to think he falls into this grouping. AD would have been here so since James seems to have a better 3 ball, he is quicker, and healthier, I think this was a good upgrade.

Haywood - I think he went from Tier 2 to Tier 1 last year. Haywood showed some signs of immaturity in previous years but he really matured last year. Great news for us.

RM - He was in this group. Probably the worst +/- in this category is between RM and DS who we kept. I guess you could argue we got Dixon instead of RM. At least both are tier 1 mentally but RM was bigger and more of the SG we needed. Problem is DS was holding the SG slot.

Tier 2 - These players I believe can make it to tier one but for various reason aren't there yet.

GA - I still put him here. He is mentally tough about some things but not others. I think this is his only real weakness. Maybe with all this time he has had away from the game, what he has observed from the sidelines and lessons he has learned about his ego and past rehab has thought him something that will make him a better player when he returns. I'd take a little less physically from GA is he went from Tier 2 to Tier 1.

Etan - I think he is mostly mature also but still a little bit of a flake. Big difference between him and GA is the physical talent. GA has a ton more. I will never see Etan as tier one until he stopped the stupid side show rim grabbing stuff. Some my think this is a small thing but it is a sign of someone that isn't focused on the ball. He would still be a valuable role player in the right situation specially playing at PF. He just isn't worth the money. He is a 2 year contract 3-4 mil a year player.

Tier 3/2

DMAC - He is rapidly approaching tier 2. I believe in him. He just needs a lot more court time. I think he is a tier 2 if not tier 1 defensively but a tier 3/4 offensively. He has more to show us. I think he has a shot but just doesn't have the confident yet to use it. Glad to see him starting.

Blatche - He is also rapidly approaching tier 2. We all know AB has been a knuckhead in the past but I think he is finally growing up. Starting him was a great move. He has a lot more to show us offensively but he just is not mentally there day in and day out yet but I see him making progress this year. Specially since he is getting starting minutes. This is what he needed.

McGee - He is so new but I can already tell he has the ability to be a tier 2 or tier 1 player mentally. He just needs time to settle into his body and learn the game. I don't worry about him. As long as he is coached well, he will get there. He is a solid 3 while AB and DMAC are 3/2. Most of this is only because he is so new.

Tier 4

NY - This kid is boarding a mental case. He has tons of talent. He just needs to get his head on straight. I think he can be molded and eventually become a tier 2 but he most of all needs to be handled properly. He is a fragile combination of stubborn, cocky and talent. He could learn a lot from a guy like DSONG. He needs to learn a mental progression to the game. He reminds me a lot of a younger GA only when GA came here he was the big name star who could fire away until he found his game. We aren't that team with CB and AJ here. NY needs to grow his game in stages and find his role so he can get quality mins every game. He needs to focus on all the little things. He already has the shot so I know it will return. Its what he does in the mean time that matter most. He needs to just focus on D and take only the open shot if it is there. If not, pass it along. He can grow the rest of his game latter as the team stabilizes.


Tier 5

DS - This guy just a mental case. He is immature. Period. The hand waving, hair cuts, opening his big month all point to this. Couple this with his average athletic skills and I conclude I don't want him on the team let alone playing. He looks more like a tier 3 if you surround him with tier 1 players but once you remove them, you see what he really is. Mentally weak.

OP - not sure if he is a tier 4 or tier 5. He also doesn't seem to have a clue. He is somehow stuck on this idea that he is a great 3 pt shooter which he may be in practice but what a waste of 7-0. I have no idea how he is handled but he seems to be wasting his talent if he has any. In a season where we needed post players (C) to defend, rebound and score around the basket it is unbelievable that he couldn't give us anything. As of today he is a total bust and has shown no mental maturity because he didn't focus on this. It's like he lives in his own little 3 pt shooting world. Bring Ruffin back to coach this kid.

Critt - I only put him here because I haven't seen enough of him to put him anywhere else. He probably belong in Tier 4. Who knows.

EJ - Yes. I'm going there. Probably the biggest problem this team had because this one person effected how the players came along. He did nothing good for the development of this area for
BH, AB, NY, GA, DMAC, OP, Blake, DS, etc. He wasted minutes on players like Ruffin, Hayws and DS while our talented younger players rotted. So we have upgraded in the most important area.

So you want 100% of your starters to be Tier 1.

BH-1, AJ-1, CB-1, DS-4, AD-1

Bench: DSong-1, RM-1, AB-3

Last year we had 80% when AD was healthy which explains why we played well at times.

This year, you can see what happened.

ET-2, AJ-1, CB-1, DS-5, AD-1/D Brwon-3
Loosing Haywood was huge because of the mental drop and physical drop between him and ET. AD wasn't healthy enough and DS was terrible. D Brown was ok but he wasn't the answer.

McGee-3, AJ-1, CB-1, DS-5, Dixon-1
Again, to much of a drop off mentally and in experience at center. This is why benching McGee and DS was so important. McGee is just to young this early in the season.

AB-3/2, AJ-1, DMAC-3/2, CB-1, James-1
This is where we are now which is why I have some hope again. Only major hole is DS still coming off the bench. This is why I think NY is the new key to our improvement. If we can get NY from a 4 to a 3/2 we would be a lot better. That would mean he is solid most games and good every 5 or so. Another things we need to do is use Dixon instead of DS at PG. So bench DS behind Dixon. Play NY for him at SG and Dixon for PG. There is no reason to play DS. Zero.

AB-3/2, AJ-1, DMAC-3/2, CB-1, James-1
DSONG-1, NY-4, Dixon-1, McGee-3, Etan-2

So the primary focus is playing mature enough line ups so AB, DMAC can become solid tier 2 players and so NY and McGee can grow and mature to tier 3/2 with a goal of tier 2. We are doing that with our starting line up. Now we need to do it with our second lines.

To me, this is an exciting time to watch this team because of this reason. This is what I'm watching to see happen. Tapps is doing well with his adjustments. You can see the transitions happening. Dealing with DS was a big issue and needed to be handled in a way that the other players respected. But these are the next moves I'm looking for see happen. Dixon needs inserted back into the rotation as the 2nd PG. NY as the 2nd SG and a little more McGee with Etan filling in when needed and DS following NY or Dixon if needed.

[hands11]

I think DMac is just Ruffin 2.0, at least until he can make a layup. A team this challenged on both ends just can't be playing 4 on 5. Even Rodman managed to have a 7 ppg career average, I think.

He is fine right now in my book. One thing at a time. A few more put backs, an open shot here and there and a dunk is all he needs to go along with his defense and rebounding.

What he does should help other players who are more offensive step up. That is what he brings.

The players that need to step up right now in the starting line up are Blatche and CB.

I like our new starting line up. Only other one that I would consider because it has more tier 1 mature players is

AB-2/3, DSONG-1, AJ-1, CB-1, James-1

That would be better right now but the one we have it better from growing DMAC. But this one would be better for growing AB to a true Tier 2 or Tier 1 player. That might actually be the smarter move but either are a lot better then what we have seen doing.

[rl25g]

hands 11
i dont think anyone is going to read that long post.

[hands11]

CCJ/Hands, I agree 100%!! I asked Nate about this in the chat a couple of games ago, and apparently it's pretty labor-intensive to dig up DRtg stats in-season (broken down between the two coaches). But I too "sense" that the Wiz are starting to play better D. He was going to try to look at it over the holidays.

There's a glitch in Doug Steele's raw stats page. He has the current data for individual players, but he has last year's team data. I can't get the raw stats needed to make the calculation.

Well, I'm just using my eyes and the fact that the last 4 of 5 and last 3 of 3 games we have held our opponents below their team scoring average.

Now our scoring is down also. I think I have seen our pace slowed down which would account for some of this. This seems to be part of what is going on with us. Tapps has them playing more of a playoff style of basketball. We are playing slower and more focused on D. This is making us look bad in some ways right now but it is creating the proper frame work for us individually and as a group to grow properly. This is something I wanted us to do years ago but EJ would never do it. He was always just focused on lining them up for offense and playing vets.

In making this switch some holes have been created and now we are growing into those holes. Look at all that has changed this year in our line ups. That is a lot to adjust to during the season.

The end result should be a team that plays a style that can win more games in a playoff series. We aren't running as many gimmicks.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/tea ... start.html

Center
We had Etan, then McGee and now AB ( 6 games ) starting at center. It took 21 games to come up with the right answer that we should have started the season with. 21 wasted games in my book.

SG
25 wasted games to get DS out of the starting line up. Now we finally moved CB there. He is still settling in after only 2 games.

PG - we had AD, Dixon, AD, Dixon, D Brown, Dixon and now James for only 5 games. This also seems to be an upgrade and the right answer.

So there you have it. Total chaos and the wrong players starting until 2 games ago. We still have some more adjusting to do in my book but this is a whole lot better then where we started. It took Tapps only 10 games to start to get this straight and 14 games to get us most of the way there. Not bad at all if you ask me. Just imagine for a moment what this would look like if EFJ was still here.

And the results of all these adjustments is that we played well enough ( even with CB not scoring well ) that we should have beaten Cleveland on the road who is the 3rd best team in the league.

If this team only had Haywood or a 2nd year McGee they would be very good. But right now, it's time to watch Blatche, DMAC and NY to see how they grow. I expect better basketball moving forward. The frame work has mostly been laid.

[hands11]

hands 11
i dont think anyone is going to read that long post.

Those that want to will. If not, read the opening and the close. Once is a while it takes a long post to summarize.

It's answers a lot of questions I see posted about why don't we do this or why are we doing that. I think I did a pretty decent job of laying it out.

For example, we saw Dixon and Etan again. I wasn't surprised by that move. I was hoping that would happen. Great moves actually. McGee is still acting really raw and he play while exciting at time is kind of destabilizing. Kind of in the NY style.

Dixon provides great mental toughness and a spark. Glad he got some burn.

You aren't going to see OP much if at all for a while. This team has to much work to do without having to worry about him. Same with Crit. Not now at least. He may see spot duty here or there but I don't see much more. Even though people talk about tanking and how we need to see what we have, they aren't going to do it that way. Crit and OP are at the end of the bench.

I think I have finally gotten a feel for what Tapps is doing and what his rhythm is like. He keeps talking about 7 game cycles so we should all know that one by new.

Personally, I think Tapps is doing a great job of turning this thing around.

As of today, NY is his number one head case project. DS redeemed himself in the OKL game.

[Mr. Grundle]

Quotes from the Cavs/Heat game thread in the Miami forum:

the referees step BIG TIME for Cavaliers and cahneged the fv kin game late in favor of the golden hyped child...BS!!!!!

how about a mother fu.king over the back?

4th quarter...

Cleveland
20 FTA's
6 FGM's

And as they were in the Washington game, the refs were the 6th man in the Cavs arena.

No wonder they are unbeaten at home.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Bump

I wonder if the Wizards have enough of a healthy squad to compete in the revenge game.