Free McGee!

[WizarDynasty]

Jam (slow first step and wimpy McGee) has even worse lateral agility than Jamison and that's really hard to top. EG seems to get all the dimension right except underestimating how devastating poor lateral agility is for a supposed defensive player.
Not only do we have to wait years for his strength to build...is almost guaranteed that he won't significantly improve his lateral agility explosiveness due to how old he is...21 is pretty old to try and develop this attribute.

[hands11]

Jam (slow first step and wimpy McGee) has even worse lateral agility than Jamison and that's really hard to top. EG seems to get all the dimension right except underestimating how devastating poor lateral agility is for a supposed defensive player.
Not only do we have to wait years for his strength to build...is almost guaranteed that he won't significantly improve his lateral agility explosiveness due to how old he is...21 is pretty old to try and develop this attribute.

And how does his lateral movement compare with other players with his size and wing span? From what I can see, his lateral speed isn't an issue. It's his strength, foot work and shot selection.

He rebounds pretty well because he is tall, long and can leap so he just goes for the ball. He has a pretty good motor for this but not a lot of smarts/experience.

He just needs to get some experience this year playing through a session and then put in some good work over the summer. I'm not to worried about if he will do this because he already has show that kind of commitment by what he did pre-draft. He will come back 5-10 lbs heavier, stronger and with at least one post move.

Plus he will get more time with Haywood.

In the end, I'm not to worried about McGee. Given a little time, he will be a solid player. Center is probably our best situation on this team right now. One vet, one very talented young guy. So that position is covered. It's the rest that needs worked out.

So IMO, the Mcgee issue really is not an issue to worry about right now.

The best thing for McGee will be Haywood returning on full practice.

[doclinkin]

McGee...slow because the two active players with slow lane agility worse than him when drafted are.....Brendan Haywood....and brook lopez.... and we know these plaeyrs terrble defenders so hes bad... and is unpossible to improve because he is old like Brendan Haywood who never improved sice he was dragfted except over teh past two years when he was 27 and 28 years old and because he is a rookie who jsut turned 21 even though most rookies who enter the league are older none improve ever even if hes a true big man and big mans all tend to improve late becase it takes them longer to grow he wont because even though he is still putting on adult msucle weight and grwoing he probably isnt growing despite the facts and proff to the contrary and despite the fact that he improved swiftly in jsut a few short months working with his NFL type trainer....so hes bad somehow even if I dont really know why or what im talking about...

[fishercob]

[Dat2U]

Here's a lovely little quote from Taps, on who he wants to log minutes at Center:

"As you know, I'm a big DeShawn Stevenson fan, so I thought practice looked better because of his presence. I'm happy to have him back," Tapscott said. "I said to one of our assistants, in jest, do you think DeShawn can play a little five for us?"

Fasten your seat-belts, ladies and gents. It's gonna be a bumpy ride.

Man oh man. When I think of Eddie Tapscott, only one word comes to mind:

[WizarDynasty]

McGee...slow because the two active players with slow lane agility worse than him when drafted are.....Brendan Haywood....and brook lopez.... and we know these plaeyrs terrble defenders so hes bad... and is unpossible to improve because he is old like Brendan Haywood who never improved sice he was dragfted except over teh past two years when he was 27 and 28 years old and because he is a rookie who jsut turned 21 even though most rookies who enter the league are older none improve ever even if hes a true big man and big mans all tend to improve late becase it takes them longer to grow he wont because even though he is still putting on adult msucle weight and grwoing he probably isnt growing despite the facts and proff to the contrary and despite the fact that he improved swiftly in jsut a few short months working with his NFL type trainer....so hes bad somehow even if I dont really know why or what im talking about...

Ok you have a point about him improving at age 27 or 28. But it should be noted that Haywood and Lopez were 1000 times better than McGee in College. Look, the attributes that are related to his skills are his raw natural agility. Agility is something you can't really improve that easily..just like your vertical. Its easy for him to get stronger. But if McGee is going to take 4 years to get to where Brook Lopez is right now. the only difference between them is 9 spots draft pics. So you mean to tell me the difference between pick number 10 and pick number 19 is 4 additional year of training.

Lets get this straight. Brook Lopez was drafted 9 positions before McGee. So you mean to tell me that we hope Javale will transform into a Brook Lopez in 4 years. Here is the point, we are going to expend 4 years of work developing a player...into basically a player that was available at the 10th slot.
What will be the difference between our "developed McGee in 4 years and what Brook Lopez is right now. We basically have an undeveloped "Best case scenario Brook Lopez" and that's if we are super super fortunate. We could have had what we are wishing for in 4 years..if we moved up in the draft 9 spots.
I don't know about you but waiting five years for an undeveloped Brook Lopez aint worth it. Its one thing if we were developing a player with raw physical attributes of Dwight Howard or Tim Duncan. We are trying to develop a player who didn't dominate his college opposition or takes his team far into the NCAA Playoffs and these were his peers. The wiz don't have the luxury of having a deep playoff team that can just sit players on bench and wait years for them to develop.
Attributes like Agility and leaping ability don't generally improve significantly when a player hits the NBA. There aren't many NBA players who's physical attributes like Agility and explosive first step improve dramatically from college to the pros.
The problem is the Wiz organization has a low IQ when it comes to making long term player development decisions. Getting a Guy like McGee who has poor agility and a poor first step..and thinking they can magically improve these attributes at the advanced age of 21..are the reasons why this organization personnel is of such low quality. Grunfeld has constantly discounted poor agility measurements just as most posters on this board...thinking that a players agility can easily be improved.
Having poor agility is a fatal defensive flaw, and developing a player with below average agility is fatal because it means that he can never guard "one on one" out on the perimeter without fouling against a forward with an explosive first step. No matter how strong McGee gets, he will never be able to cover a bigs out on the perimeter with a quick first step or be quick enough to contain on the pick and roll. There is almost nothing the wizard management can do at this point to dramatically improve McGee's fatal poor agility.
So yes we can spend years and years developing McGee but you don't spend years and years developing a player with these permanent fatal flaws even after he is developed. its one things to get a player who is already developed but has these fatal flaws because you haven't spent years and years developing him. We are going to spend years and years developing McGee but his fatal flaw shown in the pre-draft will always make him an easy target when he is guarding out on the perimeter no matter how strong and no matter how good his skill set improves. Yes Brook Lopez had the same poor agility measurements but the Nets don't have to spend 4 years developing his muscle strength, post moves, and post defense. Yes Brook has these flaws out on the perimeter but the next have the option of developing a player with superior agility and no skill set and have him replace Brook Lopez once he is developed. The wizards are hoping they project turns into Brook Lopez in four years. To me, that's really really bad value, but Wiz fans are so used to seeing poor rosters (moves that they can't see the fatal flaws of this move) that this fact doesn't jump out at them. I guess that's what new ideas are for. Breaking group think. Buckhantz mentality of no insight into fatal flaws needs to evaporate from this board.

[pancakes3]

how good did deandre jordan look on saturday?

[cwb3]

Here's a lovely little quote from Taps, on who he wants to log minutes at Center:

"As you know, I'm a big DeShawn Stevenson fan, so I thought practice looked better because of his presence. I'm happy to have him back," Tapscott said. "I said to one of our assistants, in jest, do you think DeShawn can play a little five for us?"

I can only offer up a prayer that Taps was kidding when he said that.

[JWizmentality]

Tappy = Epic Fail

[no D in Hibachi]

how good did deandre jordan look on saturday?

I was disappointed with DeAndre. I saw the other day he dropped 23 on the Lakers, but he was a complete non-factor against the Wizards. In fact I don't recollect a single thing he did the entire time on the floor. It was like Kwame when he was with the Wizards. He'd get some burn, but never ever involved in anything worth recognizing. I have serious concerns about why he was hyped so much. I mean it's not like has great size for a C and he wasn't super athletic or hyper active like JaVale.

Watching JaVale makes me extremely excited about the future of the Wizards. He is one of the most hyper active front line players I've seen in a long time. He's fast up and down the floor, always crashing the boards, he's so long, can out jump nearly anyone, he's obviously a hard-worker, and that base-line fadeaway he had from about 16 was just precious. Once he puts on a little weight he is really going to be amazing. I'm just glad he went to a small school because had he gone to UNC, Duke, Texas, or a top schoo like that he'd be a top 5 pick easily. The only reason he lasted so long was lack of recognition.

Any doubts about whether the Wiz should have taken DeAndre or JaVale was answered on Saturday night when McGee just dominated the game.

[LyricalRico]

Here's a lovely little quote from Taps, on who he wants to log minutes at Center:

"As you know, I'm a big DeShawn Stevenson fan, so I thought practice looked better because of his presence. I'm happy to have him back," Tapscott said. "I said to one of our assistants, in jest, do you think DeShawn can play a little five for us?"

[dobrojim]

I wasn't even thinking about this during the game tonight (MEM)
but DeBrick sat. Was he sick or something?

[MJG]

I wasn't even thinking about this during the game tonight (MEM)
but DeBrick sat. Was he sick or something?

His back was acting up, so they sat him as a precaution.

[dobrojim]

it's so tempting to say something mean right now

I don't want DS to be hurt. I do want the youngin's, esp Critt
and N1, to play 25-35 mpg.

[hands11]

Tappy = Epic Fail

LMAO. ahhh man. Where did you find that? My old cat did that one time to a German Shepard and I pissed myself but doing it to a bear, that is classic.

Rack one up for cats. They can have some mighty big ones sometimes.

[WizarDynasty]

I think my McGee to Lopez comparisons were pretty accurate based on the nets wiz game.

[doclinkin]

I think my McGee to Lopez comparisons were pretty accurate based on the nets wiz game.

Well then you'd have to trash your whole argument that lateral speed and lane agility measurements are the be all and end all of basketball ability. Basically have to admit your argument is effectively worthless considering Brook Lopez is one of the few players who scored slower than McGee in this biometric measure.

That's the point, no point picking a new argument mid-paragraph. Whatever McGee's upside or current performance level you can't say his lateral footspeed (measured once) will always condemn him to worthlessness when:
a) Brook measured slower and is a fine player.
and
b) Brendan improved at age 27, 28

Essentially Brook Lopez proves my point, not yours. Dude's not even bowlegged or nothing.

[WizarDynasty]

I think my McGee to Lopez comparisons were pretty accurate based on the nets wiz game.

Well then you'd have to trash your whole argument that lateral speed and lane agility measurements are the be all and end all of basketball ability. Basically have to admit your argument is effectively worthless considering Brook Lopez is one of the few players who scored slower than McGee in this biometric measure.

That's the point, no point picking a new argument mid-paragraph. Whatever McGee's upside or current performance level you can't say his lateral footspeed (measured once) will always condemn him to worthlessness when:
a) Brook measured slower and is a fine player.
and
b) Brendan improved at age 27, 28

Essentially Brook Lopez proves my point, not yours. Dude's not even bowlegged or nothing.

Its funny how you are complete lost in your own statement.
Your first assertion is that Brook Lopez is a fine player "for a rookie". I will give you that which really amounts to nothing, but Brook Lopez ain't getting any better and he is definitely not good enough to carry a team. Spending five years developing a player who doesn't have the upside to carry his team is a waste of time.
Brook Lopez has all of the negative permanent flaws that McGee has but is far more polished even though both are the same exact age. Nets have an average center in Brook but they also have a longer useful life for Brook Lopez since they aren't waiting to develop him. Wizards are holding a player that will turn luckily turn into an average Brook Lopez Rookie in five years. Apparently you missed the whole point..since you feel that holding a player with critically permanent defensive flaws for five years while you develop him is a great idea...that to me sounds like your argument.
Brook Lopez has these same permanent defensive flaws but the net's don't have to spend five years developing him. Hopefully that helps you out. I don't have a problem with you arguing with me, but at least try to stay on point and attempt to meaningfully paraphrase my arguments so that we the discussion doesn't get lost again.

Lets get this straight ok..once and for all... and try to respond to this.
Brook Lopez born 4/1/88--Javale McGee born 1/1/88--- yet Javale is five years behind Lopez--and that is if we are super super lucky--Javale sucks that badly as an average nba center right now!..average NBA center--considering both of these player permanent defensive flaws guarding pick and rolls and the ability to create their own shots--Javale is weak as feather and i definitely don't ever see McGee getting stronger that what Brook is now as rookie--yet brook is 3 months younger than our Great hope of the future McGEE!...and Lopez max ceiling in this league is an average NBA center which is where he is at right now at age 20. Both have of the same permanent fatal defensive flaws. Hopefully I shouldn't have to explain that difference in value between these two players is far far greater than 9 draft picks. All this hype of McGee being a great player need to die considerably. He is an upgrade over Etan Thomas which isn't saying much but that's all I am willing to concede right now.
Do i fault Ernie for drafting, not really..but i do fault all these poster who feel that McGee is our longterm solution at the center spot. An average nba center is not the longterm solution for a team that once to win championship. Will McGee be a decent bench player..possibly but McGee is not addressing our major deficiency in the starting rotation for what we need in post player on both ends of the court as he won't be quick enough even after five years at effectively guarding the pick and roll against a elite championship team. Do i like McGee coming off the bench and giving filling in for the weakness we have seen in Etan all these years yes but will McGee be a complete all around player with his poor agility. ..ahhh a big hell to the NO. McGee and Brook lopez have to foul or just completely give up easy points on a pick and roll due to their poor agility and the mismatches they create. There are permanent defensive flaws that will be exploited continously going against elite teams. Nets are not developing Brook ...they know he is flawed but he is better than anything they have..plus they don't have to waste years developing. McGee is completely opposite. He is permanently flawed and ! we have to develop him into an average nba center. something the Nets don't have to do.

[doclinkin]

Its funny how you are complete lost in your own statement.
Your first assertion is that Brook Lopez is a fine player "for a rookie".

Okay. Let me quick teach you some basics. Grammar first: Quotation marks ("like this") are most often used to indicate words directly attributed to someone else. Not just to add emphasis. For instance "for a rookie" are words you said, not me. Though he is pretty good, as you say, "for a rookie". There, I said it too.

The real question is how we measure what is and is not 'pretty good'. (Quoting myself now, see how that's done?).

Good thing is, we don't even have to make up a way to measure 'pretty good' since it's been done for us a few different ways. Based on box scores and per-minute in-game effects.

One measure, the Player Efficiency Rating (called PER) is a fairly decent baseline. Not great, but it works okay for a starting point. (Win score may be a little better. 'Wins Produced' probably better still). But PER is a fair standard. Here's the formula. Essentially we're looking at a player's in-game effect in all the measurable categories.

Now it helps to remember the _average_ PER league-wide is set to 15.

So consider:
JaVale McGee PER 16.8
or Brook Lopez PER 16.3

Pretty good in this case would tend to indicate better than average. Or we could I dunno make up numbers and pretend they are significant like "five years" better or "3 months" older or "8 spots different in the draft".

Fact is, as far as raw stats are concerned, McGee is doing pretty well. Above average. All while still growing into his body and learning to play as a bigman not a perimeter player, and having just added 30 lbs in three years, and (according to family members) having just grown an additional inch since last year.

Fact is, your premise is stupid. Players improve with age and experience, some quicker than others. Talent and game smarts make the difference.

Rookie Brendan Haywood PER 13.7
Entering the league Brendan was pretty sometimey in his effort, giving low energy low effort at times, frustrating his coach. This habit kept up for quite some time, belying his occasional surprising effect on the defensive end, which eventually showed up in the +/- box scores (an esoteric arcane and oft-overlooked stat at the time). That is, even when he was giving a half-assed effort, he occasionally had a positive effect because of how huge he is. Back to your favorite topic, the biometrics stuff: Brendan Haywood had the tallest standing reach of any active player in most games he played in. He could deter shots simply by standing around. He had wooden hands, bobbled passes, couldn't land a rebound with a fishing net, was slow to react, but still every now and then secretly proved to be a good defender even when it looked like he didn't give a crap. Eventually though that size won out. Given effort and experience.

Now consider JaVale McGee with an even taller standing reach, quite possibly the tallest int he league, and insane vert, unmatched combination only two players had similar jump swat reach: Dwight Howard and Shaquille O'neal...

And notice he's been name-checked by both those players this year as a kid to watch grow and improve. Both saying he will be special. Because you can't teach height and it's tough to teach motivation and effort. Whatever mistakes the kid makes out of raw effort and inexperience, being un-used to his size after such a prolonged growth spurt, he's got unmatched size and athletics, and seems to have good motivation.

The fact is many true Bigs develop late. Because of late growth spurts and late coordination. And the absolute truth is you're completely offbase and roaming into the realm of the ig'nant if you think lateral footspeed is a critical fatal flaw. Hell that's one of the easiest habits to improve. Right now he simply stands up too straight and wants to bounce off his toes to swat everything, but most of the shotblocking bouncy players start out earning goaltending calls and fols for the first few years nt eh league before they settle down. But footwork, stance work, plyometrics, anticipation-- lateral footspeed is the easiest thing to improve. You can teach that. Habits. Cant' teach athleticism and hugeness and it's tough to teach 'motor'.

[MJG]

McGee has played 20+ minutes five times since the new year. Here are his numbers in those games (plus per-30 versions of the same numbers, for fun):

MPG: 23.4 (30.0)
PPG: 12.6 (16.1)
RPG: 7.4 (9.5)
BPG: 1.2 (1.5)
SPG: 1.2 (1.5)
TOG: 0.6 (0.8)
FG%: 49.0, 27-55
FT%: 81.8, 9-11

It's a tiny number of games of course, but still, not bad.