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Let me get a Buck --last second game thread

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Re: Let me get a Buck --last second game thread 

Post#121 » by DCZards » Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:38 pm

nate33 wrote:

The team has been much better under Tapscott. There is no question about it.



Yeah, if you don't count the fourth-quarter collapses. Fact is, this team would have a better record if EJ were still coach. But then again, a better record would piss off the tanksters.
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Re: Let me get a Buck --last second game thread 

Post#122 » by Wizards2Lottery » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:31 pm

DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:

The team has been much better under Tapscott. There is no question about it.



Yeah, if you don't count the fourth-quarter collapses. Fact is, this team would have a better record if EJ were still coach. But then again, a better record would piss off the tanksters.


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Let me get a Buck --last second game thread 

Post#123 » by yungal07 » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:39 pm

DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:

The team has been much better under Tapscott. There is no question about it.



Yeah, if you don't count the fourth-quarter collapses. Fact is, this team would have a better record if EJ were still coach. But then again, a better record would piss off the tanksters.


LOL...I'm convinced you're related to EJ. Only family can show this amount of loyalty to someone who's been such an abject failure.
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Re: Let me get a Buck --last second game thread 

Post#124 » by doclinkin » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:42 pm

DCZards wrote:
MJG wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:Don't know why some of you are so pizzed. We're getting a top 3 pick out of this season. The young guys seem to getting more minutes...and the vets don't give a $h!t. Perfect tank season.

Yes, definitely. Minutes for the kids + a loss = best possible outcome this season.


I know some of you love the idea of "tanking." But do you guys actually like losing? I think it sucks!



Making a virtue of necessity. An optimists greatest weapon is retrospective pessimism. That is, if you lose when you were hoping to win, well you weren't meant to win since it helps you better int he long run. This way you win either way. Woo! Tank! Win! Who cares!

That said, I always said we'd be a nasty good team if we ever recruited a player good enough to displace Jamison to the bench. Because, ispo facto, if you're displacing a 20/10 allstar to the bench, you musta gotta dang good player replacing him. I wouldn't cry about landing big Griff, for instance, even if it takes him a couple years to dominate.

That said, the truth is, tapped out capped out little flexibility in a league looking to dump contracts and doge luxtax worries; our direct competition adding talent-- the best chance we have to improve at this point is to draft high. Maybe add/attract a decent high calibre coach. But the fact is, few teams win with no PG and no starter-quality Center. We weren't likely to do well this year anyway. So by virtue of lowered expectations, we'll take any positive sign, even in a loss. Losing stinks, sure, but if it meant we contended for a championship, I'd take it.
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Re: Let me get a Buck --last second game thread 

Post#125 » by hands11 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:05 am

DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:

The team has been much better under Tapscott. There is no question about it.



Yeah, if you don't count the fourth-quarter collapses. Fact is, this team would have a better record if EJ were still coach. But then again, a better record would piss off the tanksters.


You have to be kidding. This team is only 26 games into recovering from that Norv Tunner.

The wounds are still scabbing out from bleeding cuts he left behind.

EFJ couldn't hold Tapps cats left nut.
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Re: Let me get a Buck --last second game thread 

Post#126 » by hands11 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:29 am

Oh, and in closing. After watching the game again, we were doing fine up until the 3rd quarter when the refs just went whistle crazy..

bam bam on Blatche. He didn't have a foul the whole first half and then bad calls and a tech because Blacthe got sick of it. I actually liked it that he went off. It's all part of the growth. It shows he has some passion and he called out the ref.

Then more terrible calls. James for a defensive 3 seconds when it was like 1.5 seconds.

Then the refs called MIK for something also. It was crazy when you go back to watch it again.

Bottom line. The refs were terrible the 2nd half.

We could have easily won but I'm glad we lost. The more we win now, the more wins we can get away with later. This thing is going to keep coming together more as the season goes on. Thank God the play will also get harder as the season goes on so we have more room to grow.

I would have taken these looses under EFJ and not complained about him loosing as long as he was coaching like Tapps is.
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Re: Let me get a Buck --last second game thread 

Post#127 » by JWizmentality » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:17 am

DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:

The team has been much better under Tapscott. There is no question about it.



Yeah, if you don't count the fourth-quarter collapses. Fact is, this team would have a better record if EJ were still coach. But then again, a better record would piss off the tanksters.


Boy, you really live and die on hypotheticals. :roll:

If only we were healthy
If only we had given EJ another chance
We would have had a better record under EJ.
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Re: Let me get a Buck --last second game thread 

Post#128 » by DCZards » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:17 pm

hands11 wrote:

We could have easily won but I'm glad we lost. The more we win now, the more wins we can get away with later.


Now, that's a hypothetical! Loses now guarantees nothing in the future, except the crapshot of drafting an impact player....maybe we'll draft the next Darko or, even the next Kwame Brown.

There's nothing wrong with losing. That's what competition is about. But I do believe there is something wrong with WANTING to lose. Losing only develops a loser's mentality, which some of you seem to already have.

BTW, Hands, blaming the refs for a loss is downright silly.
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Re: Let me get a Buck --last second game thread 

Post#129 » by nate33 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:28 pm

DCZards wrote:Yeah, if you don't count the fourth-quarter collapses. Fact is, this team would have a better record if EJ were still coach. But then again, a better record would piss off the tanksters.

On what basis do you make this statement? The Wizards were 1-10 under EJ despite a very easy schedule. Tapscott has coached through a murderous schedule (easily the hardest schedule in the league) and led the team to a 6-20 record. Tapscott's overall point differential is -5.4 versus EJ's -9.7. And if you factor for strength of schedule, Tapscott's adjusted point differential would probably be down around -4.0. And Tapscott has had to do it mid-season while integrating new players (James, Dee Brown, Javaris Crittenton) and dealing with the 3-game loss of Butler.

I'm not saying that Tapscott is a great coach, but it's pretty clear to me that the firing of EJ ended up being the right move. I've got nothing against EJ, but clearly, he was no longer able to get the best out of this team. Coaches have a shelf life. EJ's expired.
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Re: Let me get a Buck --last second game thread 

Post#130 » by Ruzious » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:20 pm

nate33 wrote:
DCZards wrote:Yeah, if you don't count the fourth-quarter collapses. Fact is, this team would have a better record if EJ were still coach. But then again, a better record would piss off the tanksters.

On what basis do you make this statement? The Wizards were 1-10 under EJ despite a very easy schedule. Tapscott has coached through a murderous schedule (easily the hardest schedule in the league) and led the team to a 6-20 record. Tapscott's overall point differential is -5.4 versus EJ's -9.7. And if you factor for strength of schedule, Tapscott's adjusted point differential would probably be down around -4.0. And Tapscott has had to do it mid-season while integrating new players (James, Dee Brown, Javaris Crittenton) and dealing with the 3-game loss of Butler.

I'm not saying that Tapscott is a great coach, but it's pretty clear to me that the firing of EJ ended up being the right move. I've got nothing against EJ, but clearly, he was no longer able to get the best out of this team. Coaches have a shelf life. EJ's expired.

Perhaps your last sentence is correct - though I think analyzing any coach on 11 games is silly. Most objective non-Wiz fan observers think EJ did a very nice job here. We realize he handled Haywood poorly and didn't get them to play defense, but the team far exceeded what would be expected from them when considering the injuries. Last season was all in all a great coaching job - considering the injuries - which a lot of people here do only when it's convenient for their pov.

Tapscott is doing the best he can, but he's inexperienced as a coach, and he's gotta take some of the fall for the ridiculously consistent 4th quarter meltdowns. And his change of philosophy to emphasizing defense has not resulted in improved defense. Overall, I don't think the team is doing anything very different under Tapscott than it would be doing under EJ. Tapscott resisted playing the young guys for quite a while, and he's still overusing the vets. I think EJ would be playing the kids just as much as ET is - He's not so blind that he couldn't see the team has no chance at the playoffs. And under ET, Butler seems to have lost interest for now. I think it's very fair to say that the team more than likely would have a better record now under EJ - based on his record coaching the team over several years - through the adversity of injuries to their best players. He won last year with Stevenson as his best guard...

But as Doc pointed, there are positives in losing. As fans, we can make apple sauce out of chicken... pits?
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Re: Let me get a Buck --last second game thread 

Post#131 » by DCZards » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:57 pm

^^^Thanks, Ruzious. You said it better than a "relative" of EJ could have.
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Re: Let me get a Buck --last second game thread 

Post#132 » by BigA » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:21 pm

DCZards wrote:<snip>
There's nothing wrong with losing. That's what competition is about. But I do believe there is something wrong with WANTING to lose. Losing only develops a loser's mentality, which some of you seem to already have.

BTW, Hands, blaming the refs for a loss is downright silly.


On the losing, my perspective is I'm going to root for them to win every individual game. Cheer just as much at the games I attend. Rooting just as much when I watch them on TV or listen on the radio.

But, I'm also accepting the reality that this season "is what it is." It would be nice to see the current team improve enough to win some more games, but at the margin maybe the team is better off in the long run with a chance to pick in the top 5 than at 9 or 10.

If Gil and Haywood come back at the beginning of March and they go on an 18-4 tear to end the season, I would get caught up in it like everyone else. If it's a choice between the high draft pick and having those guys back at 100 percent I'm taking the latter. I agree that the pick in itself is no guarantee.

On the officiating, I didn't see the Bucks game, so I don't have a reaction on that. But is blaming the refs "downright silly"?

I was at the Donaghy game vs. the Nets toward the end of the 06-07 season when the Wizards were giving a point or two and ended up losing by a couple when Stevenson was mauled twice taking it to the hoop in the last minute or so.

I think the league's response to the Donaghy thing has been totally inadequate, and that there are still major questions about the integrity of NBA games. I expect the issue to blow up again. Hope I'm wrong, but I predict that crooked officiating will do more damage to the NBA than steroids did to MLB, if only because it will unfold in a more unforgiving economic environment.

If I had more time, I would be tracking point spreads, officiating crews, and patterns of questionable calls. I have no confidence that the league itself is doing that, and they should be.
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Re: Let me get a Buck --last second game thread 

Post#133 » by Kanyewest » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:46 am

nate33 wrote:Scott Skiles is a defensive genius. Last year, the Bucks ranked 30th in defense. This year, they're 7th. Think about it. The freaking Bucks, with Ridnour at starting PG and Villaneuva playing big minutes at PF, are ranked 7th.

Two years ago, Skiles had the Bulls ranked 1st in defense despite Ben Gordon in the backcourt and the aging PJ Brown starting at PF. Two years before that, he had an extremely young Bulls team ranked 2nd in defense with Eddy freaking Curry at starting center (and again, Ben Gordan at SG).

Scott Skiles is Exhibit A on how coaching can change a defense. I don't care what anybody says. A team with Haywood in the paint, Stevenson (or DMac) on the perimeter, and Arenas and Butler (who have been known to play good defense on occasion) should be able to play modestly below-average defense. I'm not asking to be ranked in the top 5, but if the freaking Bucks can be the 7th best defense, I don't see why we can't be 17th or so.


While I agree Scott Skiles is a good defensive coach, I think you are giving too much credit. I would say the biggest reason for the team's improvement is the fact that they got Richard Jefferson and all they had to give up was Yi. Yi, in his rookie season, was by all means a horrible defender (either as a power forward or small forward).

Villanueva is a much better defender at the power forward position than you give him credit for. He's 6'11 and I'm guessing he has a very impressive wingspan. Let's also not forget that the they also drafted a solid defender in L.R. Mbah a Moute.

And I would venture to say that Luke Ridnour is a better defender than Maurice Williams was for the Bucks. Williams probably suffered Gilbert Arenas syndrome, in that he put all his energy on the offensive end and played no defense. Now that Williams is in Cleveland, he can rely on others to create offense (see LeBron James) and focus more energy on the defensive end.

And as for Skiles stint in Chicago, you have to be kidding yourself that he didn't have players on the defensive end. In spite of having Ben Gordon, the Bulls still had solid defenders like Kirk Hinrich and Chris Duhon who can guard both point guards and shooting guards. At the wing position, he had guys like Luol Deng and Andres Nocioni. And Tyson Chandler isn't no slouch either who made up for Eddy Curry's deficiencies; Chandler took on the toughest low post assignments. And Eddy Curry when motivated is a good player and he certainly was during his contract year. And after Chandler left, the Bulls managed to get Ben Wallace who has won defensive player of the year 4 times. An aging PJ Brown two years ago is better than anything the Wizards have right now (excluding a healthy Haywood)
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Re: Let me get a Buck --last second game thread 

Post#134 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:56 am

nate33 wrote:
DCZards wrote:Yeah, if you don't count the fourth-quarter collapses. Fact is, this team would have a better record if EJ were still coach. But then again, a better record would piss off the tanksters.

On what basis do you make this statement? The Wizards were 1-10 under EJ despite a very easy schedule. Tapscott has coached through a murderous schedule (easily the hardest schedule in the league) and led the team to a 6-20 record. Tapscott's overall point differential is -5.4 versus EJ's -9.7. And if you factor for strength of schedule, Tapscott's adjusted point differential would probably be down around -4.0. And Tapscott has had to do it mid-season while integrating new players (James, Dee Brown, Javaris Crittenton) and dealing with the 3-game loss of Butler.

I'm not saying that Tapscott is a great coach, but it's pretty clear to me that the firing of EJ ended up being the right move. I've got nothing against EJ, but clearly, he was no longer able to get the best out of this team. Coaches have a shelf life. EJ's expired.


nate, in all fairness EJ had Stevenson bricking shots. He didn't have McGuire in for DeShawn. EJ also had a very tired and broken down Antonio Daniels trying to compete with Dee Brown and Juan Dixon at PG. James has been better. Finally, EJ started McGee, who actually has a really bad +/- despite his great dunks. Blatche at this point is a better defender than McGee. On the offensive end Andray is also a better passer.


I don't think Tapscott's been much better than EJ. The defense is a little better, but I believe personnel has a lot to do with it.
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Re: Let me get a Buck --last second game thread 

Post#135 » by hands11 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:17 am

DCZards wrote:
hands11 wrote:

We could have easily won but I'm glad we lost. The more we win now, the more wins we can get away with later.


Now, that's a hypothetical! Loses now guarantees nothing in the future, except the crapshot of drafting an impact player....maybe we'll draft the next Darko or, even the next Kwame Brown.

There's nothing wrong with losing. That's what competition is about. But I do believe there is something wrong with WANTING to lose. Losing only develops a loser's mentality, which some of you seem to already have.

BTW, Hands, blaming the refs for a loss is downright silly.


Hey, I would much rather them be winning. I held on as long as I could. But at this point, I'm just trying to see the sunny side and it's getting harder and harder. I don't know what to do with this team anymore.

I just wish we at least had Haywood back. Seems year after year we are just so thin in the post.
Blatche isn't a center and he is still to young to lead this team. McGee is still wet behind the ears. Now we don't even have Etan. This team has no true center and it has a young inexperienced PG in place of an older vet AD who we loved but who was breaking down.

Even if we had Haywood, McGee is 2 years away from being solid back up. We need more solid post players. AJ is a tweaner. We need muscle down there. Etan is to injured all the time. OP is who knows. DSong is fine as a back up PF but he needs a center down there with him. It's just so frustrating. But at least with Haywood, you can start to make it work. Without him, it's kind of hopeless.

I'm starting to give in to the trade our stars movement. We should be able to get something solid in return. I just want player who are great that fit a positions instead of these tweaners. Give me a KG or a PP or a D Wade or a Kobe.

For me, Haywood is the only one of the star 4 that fits his position perfectly.

If I could do it, I'd trade GA and AJ for Wade and Nash

Haywood, Blatche, CB, Wade, Nash

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