The Amazingly Sucky C. Butler thread

[WizarDynasty]

I like to start off by emphasizing how slow caron butler is off the dribble and how super short he playing starting s/f. For heaven sakes, nick young is taller than C.Butler and he is s/g. ITs one thing if you are short but have an awesome vertical...something caron butler does not have. This guy almost always commits a charge driving the lane because he is to slow and bulky. He is shorter than our backup sg..Nick Young and we have caron butler defending threes. Caron's Butler man is always killing us at the three point line due to caron being extremely short for a starting s/f. Butler completely relies on his midrange jumpshot and almost never creates off the dribble for anyone else. Caron butler is extremely slow in the open court with the ball in his hand. He never blocks a shot due to his poor agility and knees problems that he has had since college. He carries extra bulk on his body suited for a p/f yet that bulk does not help the wizards one bit guarding and playing on the perimeter. Him and Jamison are sole reasons why this team is one of the worst perimeter defensive teams in the league. Jamison is a poor man to man defender but he can at least use his speed to beat slow powerforwards to hole. CAron butler doesn't have the speed to beat s/f or s/g which is double whammy (and very very bad) that makes Jamison better offensively as both are horrible man to man defenders. Finally if you ever watch caron butler drive to hole..its like watching trees grow..he almost never beats anyone and pulls up for a low percentage jumper and almost never creates breakdowns in the defense and opening opportunities for his team mates. You rarely see caron taking it the hole and finishing with contact since he is slow and has a poor vertical and finishing ability..and since we know he is below average perimeter defender due to his "poor agility and poor knees" we at least expect for him to be able to take over the game offensively. Other than his mid range pull up jumper which is good...he completely loses the game whenever he does anything else. And when he is shooting his jumper and missing, he has no other way of helping to team since he can't create opportunities for others. He is not the small forward of the future for this team. Not only is he super short for a starting s/f, he has a poor vertical, very slow off the dribble, never able to take advantage of fast court opportunities due to his poor speed and agility "charges everyone" poor agility and commits charges and never gets charges on the defensive side. He is not the future starting s/f for this team. And he is too heavy and bulky to play s/g or defend s/g.

[FreeBalling]

WOW, so your ready to ship CB out of DC.

[bulletproof_32]

All of that information and it only took you one paragraph. Impressive.

[toughjuice03]

lol IBTL there's no need for this thread sure Caron's been slumping lately but he's a major piece that's makes this team who they are. When Gil was down who was there to step up? Caron. Enough said at least he's no Deshawn.

[Halcyon]

Do you ever take time to look back at what you post? Because you clearly just post directly from your stream of conscious and repeat everything like 5 times.

[nate33]

Man I hate some of the "fans" on this board.

Caron Butler is an excellent basketball player (and a great guy) having a slump because he is adapting to a new position. This thread is ridiculous and an insult to Caron Butler. Mods, please lock it.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

if you ever watch caron butler drive to hole..its like watching trees grow...

short term memory?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izRbtRdlYsU

I gotta get me some of those trees you're watching.

[Ruzious]

I think we ignore how difficult it is to change from forward to guard in the Wiz offense and defense. EJ went over that last year - when people were clamoring to make that move last season. EJ saw how difficult the move would be during a season. It's not just about matchups; it's about knowing what areas of the court to position yourself on offense and defense. Caron was so used to the positioning at forward - it would take tearing down things he's done instinctively and relearning how to play - to a degree.

[cwb3]

Lay off the acid WD

[jimij]

While I agree that Butler is a damn good player, I don't think we can attribute his poor play this year to the fact that he's playing a new position. Let's face it, mostly he still gets the ball on the wing and face's up the opponent to start his offense - nothing too different there.

He's been settling for jumpers virtually the entire year and ever since we got off to a terrible start, his body language has been horrible - you can tell the losing has really affected him.

Let's face it, he's a very talented player having a poor year. Even though his stats may not be terrible, IMO he's been coasting through games especially on D.

I'm not advocating we trade him but he's no longer one of the guys I consider untouchable if the right deal comes along.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't think Butler's bad at SG.

He was quite good at SG for the Lakers and the Heat well before the Wizards tried the idea. I'm not buying that being at SG is what's bothered his play the most.

I think he's been affected by the losing and possibly by injury. Mostly, psychologically for whatever reason he hasn't been real competitive.

I think he's at times played sullenly and other times quite selfishly. ISO ball and shot jacking and not playing defense well.

Okay, being at SG could be a relatively small part of the problem with him having to get used to new spots onf the floor and quicker players to chase.

WizarDynasty, I don't agree with much of your post but I definitely DO AGREE Caron's been amazingly sucky at times this season.

[WizarDynasty]

if you ever watch caron butler drive to hole..its like watching trees grow...

short term memory?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izRbtRdlYsU

I gotta get me some of those trees you're watching.

that you tube video..is against sacramento..as of 1/17/08..we haven't played sacramento so assume that video is from last year...not a good sign. All i am doing is calling it how i see it. Everyone can watch the game and see if what i stated wasn't true.

[Ruzious]

I don't think Butler's bad at SG.

He was quite good at SG for the Lakers and the Heat well before the Wizards tried the idea. I'm not buying that being at SG is what's bothered his play the most.

I think he's been affected by the losing and possibly by injury. Mostly, psychologically for whatever reason he hasn't been real competitive.

I think he's at times played sullenly and other times quite selfishly. ISO ball and shot jacking and not playing defense well.

Okay, being at SG could be a relatively small part of the problem with him having to get used to new spots onf the floor and quicker players to chase.

WizarDynasty, I don't agree with much of your post but I definitely DO AGREE Caron's been amazingly sucky at times this season.

Did he ever play guard for Miami? Even if he did, he really was not a very good player for the Heat. He improved a lot with the Lakers, but it wasn't till he joined the Wiz that he became a top notch NBA player. And I think it was just a dozen or so games at the end of the season that he played guard with the Lakers.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't think Butler's bad at SG.

He was quite good at SG for the Lakers and the Heat well before the Wizards tried the idea. I'm not buying that being at SG is what's bothered his play the most.

I think he's been affected by the losing and possibly by injury. Mostly, psychologically for whatever reason he hasn't been real competitive.

I think he's at times played sullenly and other times quite selfishly. ISO ball and shot jacking and not playing defense well.

Okay, being at SG could be a relatively small part of the problem with him having to get used to new spots onf the floor and quicker players to chase.

WizarDynasty, I don't agree with much of your post but I definitely DO AGREE Caron's been amazingly sucky at times this season.

Did he ever play guard for Miami? Even if he did, he really was not a very good player for the Heat. He improved a lot with the Lakers, but it wasn't till he joined the Wiz that he became a top notch NBA player. And I think it was just a dozen or so games at the end of the season that he played guard with the Lakers.

By your same logic if you can't say he was good at SG because it was just a dozen or so games, how can you quickly say he's not good at SG based on what he's done with the Wizards in this season of suckiness?

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

I do believe that TJ is a pretty smart pro... that is, he knows when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em.

Early in the season he was working his @ss off... now that a loss is a win, he is doing enough to not tank blatantly, but he knows that killing himself for a W each night would be counterproductive. It is not that he is NOT trying, but rather he isn't giving it the kind of effort we are used to seeing from him.

And, that's ok with me.

[AgentOvechkin08]

Wizdynasty not liking a short player for his position who does not have a big wingspan...SHOCKER!!!

Seriously dude enough with that stuff. Caron is a beast IBTL

[miller31time]

As expected, not much productive discussion in this thread. Lock.