Exciting! ... Depressing

[badinage]

Went to Game 7 of the Caps series last night.

Amazing energy in the building. TV does not come close to conveying what it's like in there. You have to be there. Closest comparison I can come up with is RFK in the heyday of the Gibbs era, the rocking metal stands, the whole place seeming to shake and shimmy.

No Wizards game has come close. Not even the big playoff wins. And I mean it -- not close.

And sure, this was a Game 7, and that's a huge deal for a fan -- but Caps games are routinely alive and buzzing, with everyone in attendance on the same page with the chants and responding at the same time to all the right things.

Wizards games, on the other hand, nobody really comes alive unless it's some dopey thing going on at halftime or it's the goofy blue dude shooting out shirts from his gun ... or cheering for a dunk from a guy on the other team.

Nobody at a Caps game oohs for the other team, even if it's a good move. And there's none of the adoration/exaltation/jock-worshipification you see at the Wizards games for Kobe, etc., that gets on my last living nerve and is, to me, the height of boob-ery as a fan.

The question is -- why? Why is it so different?

The Caps are a terrific team, with a superduperstar, but it's not just that, I don't think.

So what is it?

One thing I noticed was that everyone was "rocking the red," as instructed. Everyone. Last year, at Game 5 of the Wizards game against Cleveland, fans -- many of them well-dressed and not a little blase -- were singled out by the Telscreen cameraman and shamed into putting on a white T-shirt. Which they did. Reluctantly.

Our fans sit on their a$$es. Even when the going's good.

There's the corporate element, and these moneyed, pale-faced doofuses annoy the living $hit out of me -- they're just warm bodies in the good seats. (I'm not even always sure if they're warm.)

But then it's the rest of our fans. We're bloodless in that building.

We have a lot of families, and it's a night's entertainment and everybody smiles and has a good time but nobody ever gets raucous or really loud. The hockey fans, it's not a family crowd so much. We also have the dolled-up brothas and the sistas, and most of them, they look like they're at the opera, they're so jaded and complacent. They're waiting to be impressed. Do they clap? Do they respond at all? They do if they're dazzled by a dunk or a flashy crossover -- usually by the other team.

Face-painting? No. Never. Too cool for that.

Hurled imprecations? Why get all worked up into a lather? We got dinner and a club to go to later.

The crowd last night was almost all white, and almost all young and fairly young, there was very little corporate presence, and everyone seemed of one mind and body. Ordinarily, that kind of thing bothers me -- I like things to be less monolithic and more multicultural, and a great mass of people all in agreement and agitating for one cause tends to cause my blood pressure to rise. But Jesus -- it's working for the Caps.

The Wizards don't have crowds. They have a building full of customers.

[ZonkertheBrainless]

That's a good description of NBA vs. NHL in general, I think.

[Wes_Tiny_Abe_]

Amazing energy in the building.

I have amazing energy.

I really do.

But all of my amazing energy was redirected somewhere else when my team changed names and moved downtown to the MCI CENTER.

Am I still bitter after all of these years?

YES I am.

[jholmbe1]

Amazing energy in the building.

But all of my amazing energy was redirected somewhere else when my team changed names and moved downtown to the MCI CENTER.

Am I still bitter after all of these years?

YES I am.

I get being bitter about changing of the names but how could you be upset about them moving downtown? Not only was the US Airways Arena a total dump, it was in an absolute sh-thole of an area that was impossible to get to in rush hour. MCI was/is a great arena and totally revitalized Chinatown.

[Ji]

hockey is a much more exciting sport to watch...who cares about being up 24-21 early in the 2nd period?

[fishercob]

Two things.

1) The easy one. Caps ownership and marketing people are much better at what they do for in-game experience than their Wiz counterparts. At some point, the ownership is likley to be the same, so the gap should close some in that regard.

2) Tougher subject, but I think there are cultural forces at play. I can't think of a way of elaborating on this without worrying about offending someone. If I knew you guys better (or vice versa) I'd speak more frankly.

Some other little things. Over the past few seasons, in addition to their standard home and aways, the Wiz have worn (and sold) at least four alternate jerseys that I can think of (gold, orange, red/whit/blue, zephyrs). Hard to ask your fans to invest in an orange retro jersey and then be upset when they wont cover it up with the crap-ass white t-shirt with some huge corporate logo on the back. I guess this is really just an extension of the first point -- their marketing sucks.

[fishercob]

Amazing energy in the building.

But all of my amazing energy was redirected somewhere else when my team changed names and moved downtown to the MCI CENTER.

Am I still bitter after all of these years?

YES I am.

I get being bitter about changing of the names but how could you be upset about them moving downtown? Not only was the US Airways Arena a total dump, it was in an absolute sh-thole of an area that was impossible to get to in rush hour. MCI was/is a great arena and totally revitalized Chinatown.

Downtown is where you find all those crackhead ticket scalpers, though.

[clubbing_caveman]

In basketball, you dont see players being checked into boards. You dont see too many bloody faces. You dont see too many players with teeth missing. You dont see slashing penalties. You dont see a puck moving at 100mph. You dont see a goalie dressed like Freddie. Hockey fans (of which I am one) tend to like watching this more violent sport because it is just that (more violent). The more violent the sport, the more affinity you will have to a team in that sport. You cant find a hard core shuffleboard fan. You cant find a hard core bowling fan.

Now, there was a time when you had more hard core fans for basketball. Rewind to the early 1980's. The NBA let teams play defense. You could actually touch someone on defense. People packed the stands and you had this kind of hard core behavior. IMO, if you want to see this type of fan behavior from Wiz fans, just have the team play some tough defense, and I (and I'm sure others) will wear the war paint.
Remember the bad boy Pistons? They had some hard core fans.
Remember the Celtics with Ainge, Bird, McHale, Parrish? They had some hard core fans.
Give me a couple players on the Wiz who can "take out" an opponent and win while doing that, and I'll be wearing the war paint.

[P'Oed]

The closest it gets in the NBA I guess would be the Golden State fans. That Warriors-Mavs series from a few years ago had that kind of energy that made you want to be a part of it. It was just so different from every other series in recent memory because you could tell the fans really cared. I remember looking forward to those games all day and my friends would go, "Why do you even care? You could give a crap about either team." The emotion that the crowd brought to that wholes series MADE you want to watch and MADE you care about it. I have a feeling that if we see a Kobe-Lebron matchup in the finals you'll be seeing that same kind of energy for 48 minutes though.

[BanndNDC]

Couple things:

1. No obsession with making the place "family friendly".
2. Minimal hokey in game entertainment. chants, cheers, etc are mostly led by and decided on by the fans. It's kind of hard to do something like that at a wizards game because the pa system is constantly being used and music is constantly being blared. at a caps game the game is the entertainment. at a wizards game various other crap is. there was no stupid hype man. no stupid kiss cam. no stupid dance cam, sprinkler dude made an appearance but was pretty much ignored and completely out of place. at a caps game the fans lead the cheers at a wizards game the fans are led.
3. Way more corporate types at a wizards game and higher ticket prices.
4. People arent trying to look cool at a caps game.
5. caps had the benefit (in the end) of recent suckitude and downgrading of the nhl which enabled them to focus on, cater to and cultivate their core fans. the wizards and nba focus and cater to money and espn style hype. caps hockey (from a VC based fan experience perspective) is substance over style. wizards basketball (from a VC based fan experience perspective) is style over substance.

if we want to improve the atmosphere at the phonebooth for wizards games it's gonna require potentially some short term economic pain. fire the hype man, fire the blue man, cut down on the hokey gimmicks, cut down on the constant music and lower the cheap seat prices. in the short term it will seem very quiet. over time a proper atmosphere should develop.

there is a difference in the two sports though that's pretty relevant. there aren't many breaks in play during a period. hockey (like soccer) isnt filled with timeouts, tv timeouts, free throws etc. less downtime means less entertainment filler which means more fan activity.

[CaPtaiN eYeSaNo]

1. No obsession with making the place "family friendly
3. Way more corporate types at a wizards game and higher ticket prices.
4. People arent trying to look cool at a caps game.".

I was at games 3 and 4 of the Wizards/Bulls series. The seats I purchased were 3 rows behind Steve Francis. I remember screaming at the referees for a few blown calls, the corporate types looked at me as if I had a scorpion crawling out of my nose as they observed the game in a emotionless manner. The looks got worse as I became more intense.

I think I'm buying some Caps tickets tomorrow!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Two things.

1) The easy one. Caps ownership and marketing people are much better at what they do for in-game experience than their Wiz counterparts. At some point, the ownership is likley to be the same, so the gap should close some in that regard.

2) Tougher subject, but I think there are cultural forces at play. I can't think of a way of elaborating on this without worrying about offending someone. If I knew you guys better (or vice versa) I'd speak more frankly.

Some other little things. Over the past few seasons, in addition to their standard home and aways, the Wiz have worn (and sold) at least four alternate jerseys that I can think of (gold, orange, red/whit/blue, zephyrs). Hard to ask your fans to invest in an orange retro jersey and then be upset when they wont cover it up with the crap-ass white t-shirt with some huge corporate logo on the back. I guess this is really just an extension of the first point -- their marketing sucks.

As a guy who idolized Petey Green (and as I mentioned here, recall seeing him at Fisherman's wharf way back in the day) I'll handle this.

If the Wizards had a bunch of Ns like me in attendance, we'd turn the mother out.

As far as hockey goes, the white dudes (and the black white dudes who play hockey) don't hesitate to drop the gloves and throw down. That's real. Even with the NHL trying to downplay it, that's a part of the sport. Lose some teeth? Play on. How can a real action fan NOT like that?

With the NBA, those millionaire brothers don't want to fight. To avoid a fight, Carmelo can moonwalk better than Micheal Jackson did prior to Thriller. Brothers don't really want to fight. (Exceptions being guys who might be related to me in some way--Nate Robinson, Steven Jackson and Ron Artest). The modern day NBA players see what happened to Kermit Washington. David Stern has them afraid to fart loudly. Might get fined or suspended for that. Even Ron Artest is like a big cat that's been de-clawed in an effort to appear to be civilized. I think basketball flows well but isn't as rough and tumble as hockey. Nobody gets slashed, tripped, or checked into the boards in basketball.

In all seriousness, I believe the NBA ticket costs way more and that the averarge NBA fan is more fashion and image conscious. They aren rabid fans, like (apparently because I've never attended) a hockey fan is. The NBA has a bunch of white fans who are watching Nothing But African (NBA) players. They love to watch the game but it's nothing like NASCAR or watching good old hockey. jIn those sports, white guys are the stars and the average fan can totally relate with them.

I'm sure if I weren't black and raised in PG county that I'd like attending hockey more than basketball.

I just think white generally don't care how they dress unless it's a corporate thing or a dating thing. They love to go crazy at sporting events. They don't really act cool just to impress for the most part. MOST black folks aren't like me. They do tend to be very cool and measured in their public displays of emotion. Except in church. Church is where the whites are real subdued and the blacks get loud. Go figure ...

Other non-cultural things: black and white at NBA season ticket holders tend to be loaded with money. More refined and less apt to rock the house.

Last, it obvviously has to do with the people marketing the Wizards.

[dobrojim]

my LL seats are $31/gm for next year.
How much are hockey tickets?

Do the Caps have dancers, talkin stone foxes, during TOs?

I am VERY subdued in 'church'. Except the time I swore (quietly)
when my cell rang since I forgot to turn it off. Quaker meeting
is about as subdued as you can get.

I don't paint my face, but my daughter has. I do wear an outrageously
stupid wig. It lets people know EXACTLY where I am coming from.
I am not subdued during a game. No way. But I am also not profane.
I like to interact with other fans in my general area. Next year 'proof
will be able to testify to this since we'll be neighbors. He WILL hear
me during games even though he'll be a couple seats or more away.

My fondest wish is for the team to play as well at home next
year as CLE did this year. Then all those obnoxious fans of
other teams will be the ones leaving early. I always stick to the
bitter end. I just want the team to shut up all the jock-
sniffin Kobe-LeTravel bandwagoneers by getting the W.
Then folks might get more serious about the 'zards.
They've been too bad for so long that a real solid %age
of local hoop fans just never got the fever. But the atmosphere
for a couple of the CLE games, esp last year in game 3 (IIRC)
when we blew them out, was about as intense as you can get.
And the game when Juan dropped 35 on CHI was exciting too.

2 of my bigger peeves with Wiz in-game entertainment:

1. they offer M-Jackson as the singer almost every time (song contest).
MJ is a sick person. It's not his fault though. But they
still shouldn't play his music at games. Lots of other
good choices are possible.

2. during the dance cam they often focus on this really
dirty old man in section 109(?). I guess he's kinda funny
the first time you watch him, but he's long since gotten
more than old. I'm no prude but this guy is creepy with
all the pelvic thrusts. I can just imagine him luring
teenage girls to his crib and showing them porn. He acts
like exactly that type every time he's there for the cam.

[Cramer]

There's no comparison between the crowds and the games, at least in this town, and that's all I can speak to. I've been going to Wiz/Bullets games since the mid-70s, and had been to a few Caps games over the years but was never really a hockey guy. I'd check to see if the Caps won and where they were in the standing. The average year I could probably name 7-8 guys on the team. I had season tickets to the Wiz 2 years ago. It's been a while, but I've gone on major rants here about the Wiz games and the fans. I don't need to be told when to cheer. I don't need some blue **** to shoot a tee shirt to get me out of my seat. But, it would appear that most people do. Drives me crazy.

Going to a Wiz game is like pre-school for sporting events.

Going to a Caps game is like.....well, nothing else I'd ever gone to. I saw Led Zeppelin on acid back in the 70's and I guess that was pretty intense.

I climbed on the bandwagon and strapped in last year. Went to several games, including 2 playoff games and game 7 against the Flyers. Wow. I've never been as stressed at anything as I was at that. I've been to several this year. It wasn't a fluke last year.

Part of it is the game. Goals normally happen so fast and that could be it. Like game 7 last year. You're literally on the edge of your seat if you aren't out of it. The fans know the game. They don't need to be told **** and they come ready to rumble. They don't come with a "show me something" attitude. And if those two crowds were to meet out on F Street, well that nonsense would be over in about 30 seconds. And it's still a family friendly atmosphere. I'd take a 10 year old to a Caps game every day of the week and twice on Sunday before I'd take him to a Skins game.

I can guarantee you this, my entertainment $$$$'s are going to the Caps, not the Wiz. I'll watch the Wiz but if I'm going to bruise the Visa, that's going to be on the Caps.

For those that haven't hit a Caps game, you don't know what you're missing.

[BanndNDC]

Do the Caps have dancers, talkin stone foxes, during TOs?

they have "red rockers" who while not as visually diverse are similar to the dance team. however, since there's at most 2 timeouts a game they're mostly sent around to various sections. but the big difference is that you dont pay attention or care whether they are there or not cause you're paying attention to the game. besides isnt that what hooters is for before or after the game. speaking of which the chinatown hooters is horrible.

My fondest wish is for the team to play as well at home next
year as CLE did this year. Then all those obnoxious fans of
other teams will be the ones leaving early. I always stick to the
bitter end. I just want the team to shut up all the jock-
sniffin Kobe-LeTravel bandwagoneers by getting the W.
Then folks might get more serious about the 'zards.

the first thing leonsis did after getting control of the caps was to try and cut down the amount of other team fans at the game. years of lasooze marketing the other team took their toll. it worked. game 7 had barely any rangers fans (there were more brothers there then rangers fans) and game 2 had only a smattering. i cant describe how nice it is to go to a game and know that almost everyone there is there to support the home team.

as for the demographic issue. yes the crowd is usually 95% white and 5% asian, mostly male, mostly ages 18-40. but game 7 had quite a few fans of color and they were into it just as much as the rednecks. honestly it's just an infectious atmosphere that is created when the game is the center of attention and the fans lead the cheers.

But the atmosphere for a couple of the CLE games, esp last year in game 3 (IIRC)
when we blew them out, was about as intense as you can get.
And the game when Juan dropped 35 on CHI was exciting too.

the only sporting event i have been to that was at the same level as game 7 was the world cup. it's just a completely different level of intensity that hasnt been seen in these parts in twenty years.

2 of my bigger peeves with Wiz in-game entertainment:

im with cramer. why do we even need those things?

wizards and skins games ive gone to recently have been fun (if even) because ive gone with my friends. these caps playoff games have been fun becuase i went to the game.


oh and it also helps that the caps have the best player in hockey and the team is an absolute joy to watch (like the wizards 3 years ago but better) full of people you want to root for who clearly loved to play their game. ovechkin is lebron james with gilbert's personality. this series against the pens should be insanely intense. the penguins are the cavs of the nhl and have the other far and away best player in hockey (lebron with lebron's personality and league supported hype/favoritism). neither team likes each other, neither fanbase likes each other. it's wizards-cavs with the teams on equal footing. if it goes to 7 then that 7th game at the VC will be more intense then anything seen in washington since the early 80s skins-cowboys playoff games.

[ZonkertheBrainless]

I went to a caps game once with my family, last year or year before that. Up in the nosebleed seats cause that's all I could afford. Caps were getting their butts kicked but the kids were enjoying it. Second intermission, this middle aged lady comes up and says, is that your son? (Mom and daughter had taken off by then). I'm like yeah, this is my son Greg, he's nine. She goes, I like seeing families at caps games, I'm going to take off, do you want my tickets? I'm like sure, yeah! And we got to see the final period of the game from like three rows back, right behind the bench.

Caps fans are infinitely more awesome than zards fans, hands down.

[jimij]

I still remember when I was on vacation in '98 (I think) and reading the London newspaper and seeing a story that Pollin had sold the Caps. My only reaction was, f@@k, why not the Wizards too!

I still can't believe that Teddy hasn't gotten his hands on the Wiz after all these years. I'm glad to see the success that he's had with the Caps, but I wanting him owning the hoops team as well so he can start working on that organization too.

[Ji]

hockey is a more exciting game than basketball for the most part....most people I know dont even like NBA basketball

[dandridge 10]

hockey is a more exciting game than basketball for the most part....most people I know dont even like NBA basketball

I wouldn't say that hockey is more exciting than NBA basketball, but I would agree that there are a lot of folks that don't like NBA basketball (even though they like college). I think there is an easy explanation for the difference between Wizards games v. Caps games.

First, there are a lot more casual fans of the NBA than in hockey. People generally go to Caps games because they are die hard hockey fans/Caps fans. That is why its so loud in there. However, at least half of the fans at Wizards games, even during the playoffs, are casual fans....people that like to go to an event and be seen, people that are given free tickets from corps, etc, but are not necessarily fans of the Wizards.

The other difference is due to demographics. The typical hockey fan is white, probably blue collar, who don't feel silly getting all wild, screaming their head off, getting their face painted, etc. Whereas, the typical person attending the Wizards games are either corporate people that wouldn't be caught dead painting their face or screaming their head off for the Wizards; or other other people who feel they are too street cool to do all that silly stuff. Heck, the reason that many people in the Wizards games didn't put on the playoff t-shirts is because they didn't want to look "nerdy".

Finally, there is a stigma on the Wizards that is not the same as the Caps. A lot of Wizards fans expect the Wiz to fail...heck, that's why the crowd is sometimes dead even when the team is coming back from a deficit. I think that the curse of le boulez has been around long enough that people feel any cause of excitement is just an invitation to feel let down. I know I have felt that way on several occassions. I don't think Caps fans have the same feeling.

There is only one thing that is going to change the above...winning. If the Wizards can build a contender and give the fans hope, then I think you will see some pretty raucus fans.

[BanndNDC]

to be honest playoff hockey is in my opinion by far the second most exciting sporting event on the planet (after the world cup). playoff hockey (in which the players play even harder and refs swallow their whistles) is not the same as regular hockey and is certainly more exciting then the nba.

Finally, there is a stigma on the Wizards that is not the same as the Caps. A lot of Wizards fans expect the Wiz to fail...heck, that's why the crowd is sometimes dead even when the team is coming back from a deficit. I think that the curse of le boulez has been around long enough that people feel any cause of excitement is just an invitation to feel let down. I know I have felt that way on several occassions. I don't think Caps fans have the same feeling.

i dont know, remember the caps nickname was choking dogs (remember when kornheiser wrote about sports). years and years of playoff choking (and recent suckitude) led me to wander from following them. caps fans expect the team to choke in the playoffs, because it's what we've always done. i like many other in that building on tuesday was extremely worried and despondent as we entered the third period and had sucked all game. when fedorov scored Verizon Center was without a doubt the loudest it's ever been as the combined cathartic screams of 17,000 rang out and we (not the other team) came back from a 3-1 series deficit. perhaps it was just a unique moment but im willing to bet that it will be loud and insanely crazy for this next round, maybe not like it was on tuesday but close. conversely when the wizards emerged from long sufferin suckitude the cathartic joy many of us experienced was only in pockets throughout the arena and was not maintained.


we're also not talking about fans acting the fool during the games. we're talking just straight plain ole chanting and cheering, just like a football game. btw: there's barely any facepainting (and most of the white people i know are just as averse to facepainting as any other demographic). it was actually kinda like how skins games used to be at rfk, where we know cheering loudly doesnt have a demographic bias.

there's nothing inherently diffent between the two fan bases and sports that prevents that type of cheering. it can be done. it just has to be encouraged and cultivated by forgoing the force fed entertainment and taking steps to encourage more of the die hard fanbase to go to games.