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ginobili

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Re: ginobili 

Post#101 » by Dat2U » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:40 am

Benjammin wrote:If Ginobili is healthy (and will stay reasonably healthy) and then re-sign I have no problem trading the 5th and Blatche. However, right now he's damaged goods and not getting any younger (32). It's a lot to count on Ginobili, Arenas, and Butler all to stay healthy and Jamison getting older. Finally, what does it say about San Antonio's beliefs about Ginobili's health if they're not willing to extend his deal and are willing to trade him while they still have Duncan and Parker?


Exactly. If I thought Ginobili could remain healthy and re-sign with us I'd be all on board. There's no doubting that Ginobili is a helluva player when heatlhy. But as a Wizard fan I'm oh so tired of playing this "if & when healthy" scenario. Don't we have enough worries with Gilbert's knee and Caron's annual assortment of bumps & bruises?

I'd rather retain our current assets and use them down the road (if a deal can't be found now) to acquire a legit PF or an undervalued young stud. To package three of our best assets (a high lottery pick, an inexpensive young big & an expiring contract) for a player that's coming off a serious injury, is long in the tooth and may be gone by next year is too much of a risk to take.
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Re: ginobili 

Post#102 » by miller31time » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:53 am

I think we need to realize three things...

The first is that the likelihood of us trading for Bosh or Amare (or another player of their caliber) is not high. So let's not count on the saving grace of our franchise to rest upon a 2-5% chance.

The second is that we're not in a position to rebuild or add a bunch of young talent to this roster. Arenas, Butler, Jamison and Haywood (our four best players) are no spring chickens anymore. Are they old and decrepit? No, but the moves we make are going to be centered around a win-now mentality.

And the third is Ernie Grunfeld thinks this team can win now and that Abe wants to win now at all costs. We're probably not going to be trying to add young, inexperienced talent or shed massive amounts of salary. The most probable course of action is that we'll make some sort of trade for an upgrade at shooting guard which is the weak link of our team.
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Re: ginobili 

Post#103 » by realfung » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:56 am

I believe it is McGee + Jamison.
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Re: ginobili 

Post#104 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:27 am

realfung wrote:I believe it is McGee + Jamison.


Why not throw in Arenas and Haywood too?
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Re: ginobili 

Post#105 » by Hawaii » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:35 am

I wouldn't mind seeing them get Manu, I think he'd be good for the Wizards. I also like the addition of George Hill to the deal, just because I got that "Roger Mason" vibe from him when he got some playing time earlier in the season. I would hope they could find some way to send one of our contracts their way, though...either Mike James, Stevenson, or Etan as an add-on to the deal.
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Re: ginobili 

Post#106 » by Soup's Uncle » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:20 pm

If we get Ginobli for James + Etan and the #5, sign me up. We already have a lot fo young talent. The Big 3 is at the age where we have to win now. Getting Ginobli would give us an awesome starting lineup. I think Flip would do a good job of managing minutes, so maybe our guys could play at least 80% of the season. Who knows. I don't think it's going to go down, but it would be good IMO.
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Re: ginobili 

Post#107 » by fishercob » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:20 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Benjammin wrote:If Ginobili is healthy (and will stay reasonably healthy) and then re-sign I have no problem trading the 5th and Blatche. However, right now he's damaged goods and not getting any younger (32). It's a lot to count on Ginobili, Arenas, and Butler all to stay healthy and Jamison getting older. Finally, what does it say about San Antonio's beliefs about Ginobili's health if they're not willing to extend his deal and are willing to trade him while they still have Duncan and Parker?


Exactly. If I thought Ginobili could remain healthy and re-sign with us I'd be all on board. There's no doubting that Ginobili is a helluva player when heatlhy. But as a Wizard fan I'm oh so tired of playing this "if & when healthy" scenario. Don't we have enough worries with Gilbert's knee and Caron's annual assortment of bumps & bruises?

I'd rather retain our current assets and use them down the road (if a deal can't be found now) to acquire a legit PF or an undervalued young stud
. To package three of our best assets (a high lottery pick, an inexpensive young big & an expiring contract) for a player that's coming off a serious injury, is long in the tooth and may be gone by next year is too much of a risk to take.


WHO?!?!? Who? Who? Who?

No to Barbosa, Hinrich, Miller, Vince, Rip, and Manu friggin Ginobili. Dat, just who do you think this "legit PF or undervalued young stud" are that Ernie can acquire for unproven prospects? I want names. I want plausible trade scenarios. If this "legit" PF were available with our asset base, don't you think we would have acquired him already? And if you can, please spare me the diatribe about Jamison and the organizations contentment with mediocrity.

;-)

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Re: ginobili 

Post#108 » by pickIBL » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:28 pm

front office people don't tend to be all that high on this draft. I see the east wide open next year in a lot of respects...especially when you consider both the Celtic's and Cav's situations for next season.

I would understand if the team pulled the trigger for Manu but then you've got to finish the job. You can get a big and make up for that draft pick you lost by trading with the Nuggets for Kenyon Martin.
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Re: ginobili 

Post#109 » by BYRDMAN RULZ » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:51 pm

Maybe a couple of years ago, I may have been all over this trade. But he is an aging and recently oft injure former all star. This reaks of the trade the Bullets made for Mark Price. He is not the missing piece to a championship for the Wiz so I'll pass on Manu.

Dont get me wrong I love his game, when he is healthy he is almost impossible to guard. I still will pass though.
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Re: ginobili 

Post#110 » by LyricalRico » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:21 pm

fishercob wrote:WHO?!?!? Who? Who? Who?

No to Barbosa, Hinrich, Miller, Vince, Rip, and Manu friggin Ginobili. Dat, just who do you think this "legit PF or undervalued young stud" are that Ernie can acquire for unproven prospects? I want names. I want plausible trade scenarios. If this "legit" PF were available with our asset base, don't you think we would have acquired him already? And if you can, please spare me the diatribe about Jamison and the organizations contentment with mediocrity.


:clap:

If it was so easy, every lottery team would just take their picks and expiring contracts to the "stud young PF/C store" and pick one up. It would happen all the time and bad teams would instantly become contenders every summer. But it doesn't happen and there are no guarantees that it'll happen for the Wizards. So they an either hoard assets and cross their fingers that somebody is trading a superstar big, or they can take their chances with the moves that are actually realistically available. There's risk either way but at some point you have to do something.

Again, I cite the Cavs as an example. They have one guy, LeBron. He's phenomenal but he's still only one guy. Over the last few years shuffling guys in and out trying to find combinations that will work around him. It didn't happen overnight but with every deal over the last few years they got a little closer and a little closer. Now they're a true contender with the opportunity to get better if they use their large exprings. There were reasons not to trade for guys like Ben, Wally, and even Mo Williams but they went for it and now we're seeing the results.

This organization has been about the future for far too long. At some point you have to take your shot. Maybe Manu isn't the guy but we can't pass on everybody who's not a 6'10 All Star. Otherwise we'll never make any trades at all. In a perfect world, yes - trading for a stud big man is ideal. But the world isn't perfect and most of the time you make the best out of what you have. And the best that this team can do might be another perimeter veteran. But if it makes the team better let's do and figure it out along the way instead of waiting for the perfect scenario that may never come along.
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Re: ginobili 

Post#111 » by pancakes3 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:22 pm

BYRDMAN RULZ wrote:Maybe a couple of years ago, I may have been all over this trade. But he is an aging and recently oft injure former all star. This reaks of the trade the Bullets made for Mark Price. He is not the missing piece to a championship for the Wiz so I'll pass on Manu.

Dont get me wrong I love his game, when he is healthy he is almost impossible to guard. I still will pass though.


Maybe? a couple of years ago this trade would have been laughed out of the internet much less a legitimate offer being made by the front office.

Frankly i'm still shocked that many want to retain bench players in favor of signing a top 5 sg. I understand the caution over his injuries but really the risk is mitigated because we're only giving up 20mpg players. I mean, honestly if Nick Young, MIke James, and the #5 pick all mysteriously went down in a Simpsons-esque fashion (develop gigantism, tied up saving furniture from burning buildings, falling into a trans-dimensional wormhole, etc) would our squad next year win/lose any significant number of games? the difference is probably -2. However, if those guys fell into a wormhole and then we have Manu come in, even for 60 games, and play sg for us wouldn't we jump from a 45 win squad to a 55 win squad immediately on paper? Wouldn't that catapult us from being projected as 1-sround exiters to EC contenders?

and as for the part of "mentoring" - it's BS. keep in mind that Nick Young is a grown ass man. he's been playing basketball for many years now and have put in way more hours improving his game than all of us. there's nothing that Manu would tell him that HS coaches, college coaches, EJ, ET, and a myriad of assistants isn't already telling him - he fades away when he shoots, he doesn't rebound, and he tries to do too much at times (on offense. no such claim on defense) and needs to pass the ball around. These are things that even we as casual observers can tell immediately. It would just be a waste of Manu's breath to try and talk to Young.

I mean, Kwame was under the "tutelage" of Charles Oakley and developed any sort of Oakley in his game.

ps, this mentoring thing is nauseatingly perpetuated by the "Doing Work" documentary. Kobe portrayed himself as a player-coach always giving "tips" and "advice" during timeouts to his teammates - except he really doesn't say much. If i'm Gasol i'm just thinking "no sh**. i know. i'm paul mother-f****** gasol. i'm one of the greatest post-men in the game right now. really? you want me to get big and play in the paint? really? solid advice Kobe. How about getting me the damn ball instead of jacking up contested fadeaways you phony bastard. You sure are a chatty cathy when the cameras are on. When was the last time you said anything to Sasha much less joke around in Italian? He's freaking Slovenian."
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Re: ginobili 

Post#112 » by Benjammin » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:23 pm

I can live with giving up one asset I guess (the 5th) but nothing else of value for Manu.
Manu reminds me of these other stellar Bullets/Wizards acquisitions. I'm sure I'm missing a few others.

Gus Williams
Moses Malone (although he played well, he signed with Atlanta)
Dan Roundfield (completely done)
Jay Vincent
Mark Price (a blind guy fools Mr. Pollin)
Mitch Richmond
Scott Skiles
Kevin Duckworth
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Re: ginobili 

Post#113 » by miller31time » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:24 pm

Tony Parker's comment on the situation...

I don't know why he said that, but I don't think he's going nowhere


Double negative, eh? Ginobili to D.C!
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Re: ginobili 

Post#114 » by Cramer » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:37 pm

fishercob wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
Benjammin wrote:If Ginobili is healthy (and will stay reasonably healthy) and then re-sign I have no problem trading the 5th and Blatche. However, right now he's damaged goods and not getting any younger (32). It's a lot to count on Ginobili, Arenas, and Butler all to stay healthy and Jamison getting older. Finally, what does it say about San Antonio's beliefs about Ginobili's health if they're not willing to extend his deal and are willing to trade him while they still have Duncan and Parker?


Exactly. If I thought Ginobili could remain healthy and re-sign with us I'd be all on board. There's no doubting that Ginobili is a helluva player when heatlhy. But as a Wizard fan I'm oh so tired of playing this "if & when healthy" scenario. Don't we have enough worries with Gilbert's knee and Caron's annual assortment of bumps & bruises?

I'd rather retain our current assets and use them down the road (if a deal can't be found now) to acquire a legit PF or an undervalued young stud
. To package three of our best assets (a high lottery pick, an inexpensive young big & an expiring contract) for a player that's coming off a serious injury, is long in the tooth and may be gone by next year is too much of a risk to take.


WHO?!?!? Who? Who? Who?



This is Dat. You know he's thinking Kwame could probably be had for the #5.
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Re: ginobili 

Post#115 » by BYRDMAN RULZ » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:41 pm

pancakes3 wrote:
BYRDMAN RULZ wrote:Maybe a couple of years ago, I may have been all over this trade. But he is an aging and recently oft injure former all star. This reaks of the trade the Bullets made for Mark Price. He is not the missing piece to a championship for the Wiz so I'll pass on Manu.

Dont get me wrong I love his game, when he is healthy he is almost impossible to guard. I still will pass though.


Maybe? a couple of years ago this trade would have been laughed out of the internet much less a legitimate offer being made by the front office.

Frankly i'm still shocked that many want to retain bench players in favor of signing a top 5 sg. I understand the caution over his injuries but really the risk is mitigated because we're only giving up 20mpg players. I mean, honestly if Nick Young, MIke James, and the #5 pick all mysteriously went down in a Simpsons-esque fashion (develop gigantism, tied up saving furniture from burning buildings, falling into a trans-dimensional wormhole, etc) would our squad next year win/lose any significant number of games? the difference is probably -2. However, if those guys fell into a wormhole and then we have Manu come in, even for 60 games, and play sg for us wouldn't we jump from a 45 win squad to a 55 win squad immediately on paper? Wouldn't that catapult us from being projected as 1-sround exiters to EC contenders?

and as for the part of "mentoring" - it's BS. keep in mind that Nick Young is a grown ass man. he's been playing basketball for many years now and have put in way more hours improving his game than all of us. there's nothing that Manu would tell him that HS coaches, college coaches, EJ, ET, and a myriad of assistants isn't already telling him - he fades away when he shoots, he doesn't rebound, and he tries to do too much at times (on offense. no such claim on defense) and needs to pass the ball around. These are things that even we as casual observers can tell immediately. It would just be a waste of Manu's breath to try and talk to Young.

I mean, Kwame was under the "tutelage" of Charles Oakley and developed any sort of Oakley in his game.

ps, this mentoring thing is nauseatingly perpetuated by the "Doing Work" documentary. Kobe portrayed himself as a player-coach always giving "tips" and "advice" during timeouts to his teammates - except he really doesn't say much. If i'm Gasol i'm just thinking "no sh**. i know. i'm paul mother-f****** gasol. i'm one of the greatest post-men in the game right now. really? you want me to get big and play in the paint? really? solid advice Kobe. How about getting me the damn ball instead of jacking up contested fadeaways you phony bastard. You sure are a chatty cathy when the cameras are on. When was the last time you said anything to Sasha much less joke around in Italian? He's freaking Slovenian."


I agree that the Wiz are a much better team with Manu than without, especially if he is healthy, depending on who we have to give up. If it is Blatche, James and the # 5 that may work, but if I remember correctly Pop said it was for a very good player, I guess I would like to know who that is Jamison or Butler is my guess. If Jamison more on board, with Butler still not sure. So, for as much as he means to the Spurs, I doubt that he would come cheaply injuries and age not withstanding.
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Re: ginobili 

Post#116 » by fishercob » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:58 pm

Benjammin wrote:I can live with giving up one asset I guess (the 5th) but nothing else of value for Manu.
Manu reminds me of these other stellar Bullets/Wizards acquisitions. I'm sure I'm missing a few others.

Gus Williams
Moses Malone (although he played well, he signed with Atlanta)
Dan Roundfield (completely done)
Jay Vincent
Mark Price (a blind guy fools Mr. Pollin)
Mitch Richmond
Scott Skiles
Kevin Duckworth


It may remind you of these guys, but it couldn't have any less to do with them. Last time Ernie traded big for small and young for "old" it turned out to be one of the biggest steals of the last decade.
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Re: ginobili 

Post#117 » by Blame Rasho » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:13 pm

I think in the end the Wizards are just doing the responsible thing and shopping their pick and seeing if someone is interested. You know we don't know who they have targeted. I just saw in a great blog on SN, that the last few draft picks they had, McGee and McGuire weren't even worked out by the team. They might want someone and might not want anyone to know and hoping to trade down or out of the draft. They also just want everyone to know that the 5th pick is in play and want to get better quicker.
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Re: ginobili 

Post#118 » by Blame Rasho » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:16 pm

miller31time wrote:Tony Parker's comment on the situation...

I don't know why he said that, but I don't think he's going nowhere


Double negative, eh? Ginobili to D.C!


I am surprised he didn't say unbelievable or aggressive.
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Re: ginobili 

Post#119 » by keynote » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:17 pm

miller31time wrote:Tony Parker's comment on the situation...

I don't know why he said that, but I don't think he's going nowhere


Double negative, eh? Ginobili to D.C!


Shouldn't there be a "uuuh, how you zay" interjected in there somewhere?
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Re: ginobili 

Post#120 » by Ruzious » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:23 pm

Blame Rasho wrote:
miller31time wrote:Tony Parker's comment on the situation...

I don't know why he said that, but I don't think he's going nowhere


Double negative, eh? Ginobili to D.C!


I am surprised he didn't say unbelievable or aggressive.

Irregardless, there ain't no way SA trades him.
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