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Amare Trade Rumor now like a Ji snowstorm forecast--Bust!

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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#241 » by LyricalRico » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:22 pm

TheSecretWeapon wrote:
FreeBalling wrote:
TheSecretWeapon wrote:What is Ted going to do to acquire a Duncan-like player that Abe hasn't done?


The Spurs got Duncan from the lottery, w/o him how manny titles do the win? That's the luck I'm talking about lottery luck to keep the payroll down.


This is exactly my point. But, the answer isn't to simply say, "Well, if we can't get a Shaq or a Duncan, we'll keep on sucking and hope that one day we'll get lucky enough to get one." No, you do what Detroit did, and keep adding players and hope that the combination of good players and good coaching gets you over the top.


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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#242 » by keynote » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:38 pm

Yeah, you could argue that that Clips have actually put the "keep the payroll low and hope to strike rich in the lottery" strategy into practice for years. Not exactly a recipe for success.
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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#243 » by FreeBalling » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:26 am

TheSecretWeapon"
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Are you trying to trot out the old "Abe is cheap" canard? That was manure like 12 years ago. The problem has not been that Abe won't spend, it's that the basketball brain trust kept picking the wrong guys to pay. How has Abe demonstrated a commitment to winning? He built a first-class arena -- including a first-class locker room and practice facility -- with his own money.

__________________________________________________________________________________________
I'm not ever going to say Abe is bad for the area, this is only about the Wizards.

I believe now is the correct time to be talking about funds on the table, we are trying to trade our 5th pick. This is also about R.O.I. will play X get us to the second or third round of the playoffs.

You either qualify for the opportunity or you don't. No need in wasting peoples time.

When the Wizards come calling do you think the players agent get excited or could they just look at our cap and say THEY GOT NO MONEY. I see you pointed out some players from the past, how'd they do? BTW - Abs Duncan was Wess and Disco was popular, it's been a long time and the fans deserve better IMO.

Clippers of the East got it's name because of the way the company was run. The man at the top is Abe, who knows maybe on draft day I'll be wrong and we'll see the commitment to winning.

I don't see us going deep into the playoffs unless we secure a solid low post player like Bosh. We might have to give up Jamison or Butler to get better. It's a give and take, no one wants our trash.

I believe in this team, our time is now.

TheSecretWeapon"
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Again, what is Ted going to do to acquire that next piece for the Wizards that they aren't already doing?

___________________________________________________________________________________________

New leadership at the top is a start, reflecting on the past I've formed my opinion. Maybe deeper pockets, new business management strategy, Achieving sustained quality improvement requires commitment from the entire organization, particularly from top-level management. That's how.

Washington DC is the 7th largest media market, money can be made in this region of the USA with the correct leadership at the top.
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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#244 » by FreeBalling » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:48 am

Of the top 10 payrolls in the NBA 70% were in the playoffs. I wonder why that happened.

Of the top 10 media markerts 6 of the 10 were in the playoffs.

I see a trend.
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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#245 » by P'Oed » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:49 am

Is anyone else thinking that this might still happen? I have a strange feeling that it might for some reason.
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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#246 » by FreeBalling » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:06 am

It's a give and take, no one wants our trash.



I stand corrected, I just read the news about the trade.
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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#247 » by mohammed10 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:11 am

Guess this thread is done now...

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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#248 » by likwitdesi » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:07 am

^

I don't agree. I think the key behind a deal still remains Butler. Notice that we just acquired a SG and SF, the same positions Butler and Young play. I feel that EG is working hard to move Butler, Young, and a 3rd piece who I am thinking is Blatche to the Suns for Amare.
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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#249 » by mohammed10 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:16 am

likwitdesi wrote:^

I don't agree. I think the key behind a deal still remains Butler. Notice that we just acquired a SG and SF, the same positions Butler and Young play. I feel that EG is working hard to move Butler, Young, and a 3rd piece who I am thinking is Blatche to the Suns for Amare.


I really hope that you are correct. A move like that would make us a legitimate challenger in the East...not merely a playoff hopeful that we are now
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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#250 » by Ruzious » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:18 am

likwitdesi wrote:^

I don't agree. I think the key behind a deal still remains Butler. Notice that we just acquired a SG and SF, the same positions Butler and Young play. I feel that EG is working hard to move Butler, Young, and a 3rd piece who I am thinking is Blatche to the Suns for Amare.

Yeah, this trade helps - not hurts - the chances of making an Amare trade. Note - I'm not saying there's a good chance. There was never a good chance of trading for Amare. But now, I think there's a better chance.
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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#251 » by 20MexicanosIn1Van » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:40 am

If we get Amare we will be the worst defensive team of all time.

I would rather trade Jamison for a defensive minded PF, and maybe some cap relief, and depth. Maybe include Young in the trade.

Arenas/Foye/Critt
Miller/Foye
Butler/McGuire
Defensive PF/Blatche
Haywood/McGee
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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#252 » by AceDegenerate » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:41 am

This trade is dead & gone, dead & gone yeeeah.
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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#253 » by TheSecretWeapon » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:19 pm

FreeBalling wrote:
New leadership at the top is a start, reflecting on the past I've formed my opinion. Maybe deeper pockets, new business management strategy, Achieving sustained quality improvement requires commitment from the entire organization, particularly from top-level management. That's how.

Washington DC is the 7th largest media market, money can be made in this region of the USA with the correct leadership at the top.


Maybe you should be more specific about what Ted would do. Are Ted's pockets any deeper than Abe's? Ted's fortune came from AOL, which has tanked. I don't know where he's generating more income at this point. What new business management strategy should/would Ted implement? Abe's most recent strategy was to hire Ernie and let him run the team. He did things bassackwards by hiring Eddie Jordan first, but that's been corrected -- Flip is Ernie's guy. Abe's roll at this point is to sign checks and recruit free agents when Ernie asks him too. The Wizards at this point are nothing like the cheapskate Clippers, whose owner turns a profit by keeping costs down. Ernie runs a professional operation that's fully funded. Abe has authorized going over the luxury tax threshold. What more can he do to demonstrate his commitment?

Again, what is Ted going to do that's different? They have a very good GM. The GM has a first-rate staff. Tommy Sheppard and Milt Newton have both been finalists for GM openings, both will be GMs at some point. Both are highly respected around the league. They have a well-respected coach who's won at previous NBA stops. They've spent on players and continue working to upgrade the roster. The biggest knock I can bring against the front office is that Ernie doesn't pay as much attention to advanced stat analysis as he could. But, both Tommy and Milt keep up with advanced metrics, and Flip is receptive to stats and advanced tracking.

Seriously, I don't know how the team could demonstrate that they're more committed to winning. But maybe it's just my failing that I can't see what Ted would do to make this team contend for a championship.
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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#254 » by verbal8 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:26 pm

Ruzious wrote:
likwitdesi wrote:^

I don't agree. I think the key behind a deal still remains Butler. Notice that we just acquired a SG and SF, the same positions Butler and Young play. I feel that EG is working hard to move Butler, Young, and a 3rd piece who I am thinking is Blatche to the Suns for Amare.

Yeah, this trade helps - not hurts - the chances of making an Amare trade. Note - I'm not saying there's a good chance. There was never a good chance of trading for Amare. But now, I think there's a better chance.


I think adding Miller makes Butler tradeable. Not saying it will happen, but it is more likely now. There was definitely no one at the 5 spot that could have replaced Butler.
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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#255 » by likwitdesi » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:38 pm

20MexicanosIn1Van wrote:If we get Amare we will be the worst defensive team of all time.

I would rather trade Jamison for a defensive minded PF, and maybe some cap relief, and depth. Maybe include Young in the trade.

Arenas/Foye/Critt
Miller/Foye
Butler/McGuire
Defensive PF/Blatche
Haywood/McGee


I don't agree. Yes, Amare is an average defender, at best, but the fact that we have his length and shotblocking ability back there makes him an upgrade over Jamison defensively. Mike Miller would also be an improvement defensively at SF over Caron, because even though he may not be a very good individual defender, he is considered to be a good team defender, which fits in well with Flip's zone defense scheme.

IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE A TOP DEFENSIVE TEAM WITHOUT BEING FULL OF GREAT INDIVIDUAL DEFENDERS! Houston has proven this year after year with their only all-NBA guy being Battier (before Artest came over from Sacramento). The scheme is more important in determining a defense's efficacy.
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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#256 » by barelyawake » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:00 pm

TheSecretWeapon wrote: Are Ted's pockets any deeper than Abe's? Ted's fortune came from AOL, which has tanked. I don't know where he's generating more income at this point.


I don't know Abe's net worth, but yes I'd assume Ted has more money. I have no idea how much AOL stock Ted still has, but these are the things I do know. I do know that Ted was reportedly a billionaire in 2007. I do know that AOL stock has doubled and split more than your average paramecium on steroids. AOL hasn't "tanked." It's dipped for now. It's gone from around 40 to like 27 I believe (I have friends who work for AOL; used to work there myself; and used to own AOL stock). That seems like a lot, if you don't factor in the splits before the merger. So, yeah if you bought at 40 it's "tanked" for you. I know many a person with a beach home (and a cabin) off AOL stock. But, AOL is still growing and still a monster. Though again, I have no idea how much AOL stock Ted still owns or how much of his portfolio it comprises. One assumes a billionaire would diversify. That's all I wanted to add...
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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#257 » by TheSecretWeapon » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:45 pm

All right, I did some quick research. Web sources put Abe's net worth at $180 million and Leonsis's at approximately $1 billion. Ted has deeper pockets, even allowing for the data to be out of date. (Abe's number comes from 2005; Leonsis's appears to be from 2003 or 2002.) This doesn't change my earlier points because Abe's action is the same as what we would want Ted to do -- Abe has said he'll pay the luxury tax. Ted is better equipped to pay that tax longterm, but at 80+ years old and in poor health, I doubt Abe is thinking long term.
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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#258 » by doclinkin » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:09 pm

TheSecretWeapon wrote:
FreeBalling wrote:
New leadership at the top is a start, reflecting on the past I've formed my opinion. Maybe deeper pockets, new business management strategy, Achieving sustained quality improvement requires commitment from the entire organization, particularly from top-level management. That's how.

Washington DC is the 7th largest media market, money can be made in this region of the USA with the correct leadership at the top.


Maybe you should be more specific about what Ted would do. Are Ted's pockets any deeper than Abe's? Ted's fortune came from AOL, which has tanked. I don't know where he's generating more income at this point. What new business management strategy should/would Ted implement? Abe's most recent strategy was to hire Ernie and let him run the team. He did things bassackwards by hiring Eddie Jordan first, but that's been corrected -- Flip is Ernie's guy. Abe's roll at this point is to sign checks and recruit free agents when Ernie asks him too. The Wizards at this point are nothing like the cheapskate Clippers, whose owner turns a profit by keeping costs down. Ernie runs a professional operation that's fully funded. Abe has authorized going over the luxury tax threshold. What more can he do to demonstrate his commitment?

Again, what is Ted going to do that's different? They have a very good GM. The GM has a first-rate staff. Tommy Sheppard and Milt Newton have both been finalists for GM openings, both will be GMs at some point. Both are highly respected around the league. They have a well-respected coach who's won at previous NBA stops. They've spent on players and continue working to upgrade the roster. The biggest knock I can bring against the front office is that Ernie doesn't pay as much attention to advanced stat analysis as he could. But, both Tommy and Milt keep up with advanced metrics, and Flip is receptive to stats and advanced tracking.

Seriously, I don't know how the team could demonstrate that they're more committed to winning. But maybe it's just my failing that I can't see what Ted would do to make this team contend for a championship.


Okay, I'll take that one BA. Potential things that Teddy could do:

--'Cuban'-up the facilities even further, compete for buzz league-wide of 'best player treatment, ever'. Including in-house chef/nutritionist for players who want to come and work-out on off days, offseason, etc. Stock the fridge. Give them a reason to be at the facilities instead of anywhere else.
--Recruit best possible Medical team from area professionals (more than relying on family friends). Johns Hopkins, Georgetown. Study Pheonix, study Detroit's trainer, survey league-wide to see what can be done to upgrade facilities/staff/training team/nutritionists, etc.
--Maybe develop player/personnel mentor program for youngsters entering the team system. Team nanny sort of thing, to keep an eye on young talents like Blatche and the KFB and ensure they are able to eat right, balance a checkbook, etc.
--Maybe drop the ducats to build a home-grown D-league that runs the team's system, de facto farm team system, like LA. As is Hershey is to the Caps. Build a team from the local connects in the DC/BMore/MoCo/PG talent-rich area. Allow local college stars/coaches to get run on these top facilities, ditto area trainers like Idan Ravin etc, to develop that homegrown loyalty and a pool of defacto scouts/consultants. Develop promising coaches for the system at the D-League level, as well as athletic talent, ready to graduate. Sponsor area AAU teams.
--Maybe push the league FO to allow rehabbing veterans to play in the D-League in the next CBA, to allow the minor league to get a bit more buzz and interest, and give recuperating plaeyrs run to knock the rust off.
--Recruit a top Big Man coach to work with young frontcourt players. Host a DC-based Big Man camp/skills camp on the Wiz campus.
--Schmooze, work the PR on local media to drive up the profile of the team as a hometown option.
Reach out to directly connect with fans and develop brand loyalty. One thing that Teddy can do that Abe really can't: change the team name maybe.
--Re-vamp the tired in-game entertainment to develop a real area flavor, hometown loyalty. Better food, better music, live bands pre- and postgame to encourage early arrivals and discourage early exiters.

These things begin to turn the PR profile of the team league-wide. Lazy media outlets don't get to fall back on the same old cheap easy stories ('Bullets=Washington Generals, ha ha ha') instead get to run 'New Era Wizards' stories, new directions. Teddy is a master schmoozer, giving great sound bites, basically writing the story for league heads to run features on the 'new' direction the team is taking. Free agents listen to the buzz, listen to current Wiz players and train in the team facilities in the offseason to get a taste.

I got a billion idears, some will work, some might not. But as of right now there lacks a certain energy, even in a winning year. I get tired of the DC crowd that thinks it's more important to talk on the cell phone than to lose your head on behalf of the home team, ushers who ask to see your ticket if you cheer too loud for a white-collar section (true story). I'd allow halftime-upgrades if the lower seats are empty, find the guys in the top rows who are making the most positive noise and bring them down to the higher-dollar sections where their enthusiasm can do some good.

The caps crowd is a different demographic, true, but they know how to lose their perspective. Ditto the local college teams. If we have to seed the crowd with people who know how to get ridiculous, fine. You can have superfan contests to win season tickets for you and a couple loud friends. Hecklers row, free tickets for local comedians, behind the opponent bench. Professional Fickers, provided they're funny and basically PG-13.

And in general provide a receptive ear to one of the more insightful and intelligent fanbases that's out there. (Pats self on back). These are the sorts of things that Teddy Dotcom is best at, listening to people to collect new ideas. Tougher to do for a guy like Abe, or Ernie. Not impossible, just easier to do eventually when you have a new guy coming in looking for fresh ideas.

Whatever ideas I have, still, I love old Abe. Love his loyalty, to his team, his City. I wish him good health. I certainly don't resent him as an owner, he does the best he knows how. He has said he won't sell his team until he gets a championship, and like everybody else in Wizfandom, truly, I hope he gets his wish.
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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#259 » by barelyawake » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:16 pm

Nicely said, Doc. And I believe most of those are ideas either you or I have been pushing for years. I will say again, there are many things that don't count against the cap that lead to championships. Nice post.
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Re: Amare Trade Rumor still alive and well 

Post#260 » by TheSecretWeapon » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:37 pm

Lots of good ideas, but the team has already done or is doing some of the stuff on this list.

doclinkin wrote:
Okay, I'll take that one BA. Potential things that Teddy could do:

--'Cuban'-up the facilities even further, compete for buzz league-wide of 'best player treatment, ever'. Including in-house chef/nutritionist for players who want to come and work-out on off days, offseason, etc. Stock the fridge. Give them a reason to be at the facilities instead of anywhere else.


They renovated the locker room when Ernie took charge, and they've added some upgrades since then. It's posh -- especially the Players Only section. Guys who live in the area spend a lot of time there. Their practice facility is a magnet for local players. Sam Cassell used to drive down from Baltimore to run in the pickup games. Carmelo does the same when he's in Baltimore. They could probably get some better towels or something, but the place is already very nice.

--Recruit best possible Medical team from area professionals (more than relying on family friends). Johns Hopkins, Georgetown. Study Pheonix, study Detroit's trainer, survey league-wide to see what can be done to upgrade facilities/staff/training team/nutritionists, etc.


Absolutely. Agree 100%. In fact, I'll ask someone I know why they haven't done this already. :)

--Maybe develop player/personnel mentor program for youngsters entering the team system. Team nanny sort of thing, to keep an eye on young talents like Blatche and the KFB and ensure they are able to eat right, balance a checkbook, etc.


They did that. Duane Ferrell was Kwame's baby sitter. Maybe the wrong guy for the job. Mitchell Butler had that role for a couple years. They also had some non-player staff who are in "player services," which basically means they do the things you're talking about here. The players in question aren't always interested in having adult supervision, if you catch my meaning.

--Maybe drop the ducats to build a home-grown D-league that runs the team's system, de facto farm team system, like LA. As is Hershey is to the Caps. Build a team from the local connects in the DC/BMore/MoCo/PG talent-rich area. Allow local college stars/coaches to get run on these top facilities, ditto area trainers like Idan Ravin etc, to develop that homegrown loyalty and a pool of defacto scouts/consultants. Develop promising coaches for the system at the D-League level, as well as athletic talent, ready to graduate. Sponsor area AAU teams.


I've had long conversations with folks about the minor league team. They say they could do more with their team, but also are dubious about whether they'd get enough return from a bigger investment in the D-League team. I think they could do a lot more (and they do too), but the current basketball brain trust doesn't place a high value on the D-League.

--Maybe push the league FO to allow rehabbing veterans to play in the D-League in the next CBA, to allow the minor league to get a bit more buzz and interest, and give recuperating plaeyrs run to knock the rust off.


They're already pushing for this kind of thing in the league's rulemaking bodies. They also want the ability to replace on the 15-man roster youngsters sent to the D-League.

--Recruit a top Big Man coach to work with young frontcourt players. Host a DC-based Big Man camp/skills camp on the Wiz campus.


Nice idea.

--Schmooze, work the PR on local media to drive up the profile of the team as a hometown option.
Reach out to directly connect with fans and develop brand loyalty. One thing that Teddy can do that Abe really can't: change the team name maybe.
--Re-vamp the tired in-game entertainment to develop a real area flavor, hometown loyalty. Better food, better music, live bands pre- and postgame to encourage early arrivals and discourage early exiters.


Amen.
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