Tracking Former Wizards 3.0

[queridiculo]

Jordan was a terrible coach here I expect him to crash & burn with those Lakers worse than Brown did this year for sure.

Jordan's offense was a thing of beauty for a pretty long stretch, and with the Lakers he'll have far more to work with than he ever had in Washington.

It's not like the Lakers are turning the team over to him, he's simply there to run the offense.

[Knighthonor]

what ever happen to Antonio Daniels?

no idea why they got rid of him. He was awesome bench player for this team...

[DMVleGeND]

what ever happen to Antonio Daniels?

no idea why they got rid of him. He was awesome bench player for this team...

He was in the D-League last yr.

[tugs]

no one answered Larry Hughes.

he still playing or doing charity?

[Nivek]

what ever happen to Antonio Daniels?

no idea why they got rid of him. He was awesome bench player for this team...

They traded him because he was having increasing physical difficulty handling the heavy minutes. Remember, he was signed to be a third guard, but the Wizards needed him to be a starter with Arenas injured. Plus, when the team was clearly going to suck, Daniels was increasingly cranky and irritable -- especially with the younger goofballs on the roster. It was a bad situation, and the Wizards didn't want to trade off guys like Nick Young and Javale McGee (at that point) to mollify a 33-year old backup PG whose body was breaking down.

[Kanyewest]

Jordan was a terrible coach here I expect him to crash & burn with those Lakers worse than Brown did this year for sure.

Kanyewest is right. EJ was a good offensive coach.

EJ as Wizards coach: http://www.basketball-reference.com/coa ... ed01c.html

25-57, 45-37, 42-40, 41-41, 43-39, 1-11

The year EJ got fired, he was forced to start Butler, Jamison, Stevenson, Etan Thomas, and Juan Dixon. Gilbert, Brendan Haywood, and even Antonio Daniels were out with injuries. Eddie was a bad defensive coach but when your frontline is Butler, Jamison, Thomas with Blatche and Songalia off the bench you are in serious trouble. When Dixon is your PG you don't struggle because of bad coaching.

EJ pushed to have that front line because he needed uniquely talented offensive bigs to run his system. Unfortunately, the type of big man who can pass well and shoot from 18 feet is also typically a poor defender. EJ was overrated as an offensive coach because his system required everyone on the floor to have high offensive aptitude. Good offensive coaches can make things work with 3 good players plus two defensive specialists.

EJ's first three winning seasons were based on riding Gilbert Arenas. I don't think much offensive genius was required there. The only season I give him much credit for was that 43-39 year without Arenas. And in that season, EJ was fortunate that Etan was hurt so that he had no choice but to play Haywood for 28 minutes a game. I firmly believe our record would have been worse if Etan was healthy.

Good offensive coaches have good offensive players. I think the Wizards having 3 20+ ppg scorers did a pretty good job. THe problem with EJ was that his best offensive big was a terrible defender (Jamison). Yes the Wizards should have played Haywood more, but it's not like Haywood has been a better player without EJ and his system.

I think EJ just has to prove to be a better coach than Mike Brown offensively. All you have to point to is Larry Huges contract year with the Wizards versus how he played with Mike Brown and the Cavs with LeBron.

[nate33]

I think EJ just has to prove to be a better coach than Mike Brown offensively. All you have to point to is Larry Huges contract year with the Wizards versus how he played with Mike Brown and the Cavs with LeBron.

Fair enough. It's a pretty good bet that EJ is a better offensive coach than Mike Brown. In that respect, I suppose he'll help at least some. I just object to this argument that EJ is a really good X's and O's coach. His offense in New Jersey was mediocre, his offensive success here was due to having one of the greatest offensive players of the decade, and he crashed and burned in Philly.

[Nivek]

EJ is a good offensive coach, however that's actually the easier part of the game to coach. Having a good offense is much more about the offensive talent on the roster whereas defense is more about system/teamwork than individual talent. A good offensive coach can help maximize what good players can do, but they can't transmogrify bad players into a cohesive system.

The Triangle, for example, was a GREAT system when it was being run with guys like Jordan and Pippen or Shaq and Kobe. The results with the same offensive system weren't quite as good when it was run with Kukoc, Dickey Simpkins and Brent Barry.

On the defensive side, I'm reminded of what Rick Carlisle told me years ago when he was coaching in Detroit: "Anyone can be a good defender in our system if he plays with effort and follows our rules." He was talking about how Rip Hamilton went from being a bad defender in Washington to being an adequate defender in Detroit.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Kanyewest is right. EJ was a good offensive coach.

EJ as Wizards coach: http://www.basketball-reference.com/coa ... ed01c.html

25-57, 45-37, 42-40, 41-41, 43-39, 1-11

The year EJ got fired, he was forced to start Butler, Jamison, Stevenson, Etan Thomas, and Juan Dixon. Gilbert, Brendan Haywood, and even Antonio Daniels were out with injuries. Eddie was a bad defensive coach but when your frontline is Butler, Jamison, Thomas with Blatche and Songalia off the bench you are in serious trouble. When Dixon is your PG you don't struggle because of bad coaching.

EJ pushed to have that front line because he needed uniquely talented offensive bigs to run his system. Unfortunately, the type of big man who can pass well and shoot from 18 feet is also typically a poor defender. EJ was overrated as an offensive coach because his system required everyone on the floor to have high offensive aptitude. Good offensive coaches can make things work with 3 good players plus two defensive specialists.

EJ's first three winning seasons were based on riding Gilbert Arenas. I don't think much offensive genius was required there. The only season I give him much credit for was that 43-39 year without Arenas. And in that season, EJ was fortunate that Etan was hurt so that he had no choice but to play Haywood for 28 minutes a game. I firmly believe our record would have been worse if Etan was healthy.

Good offensive coaches have good offensive players. I think the Wizards having 3 20+ ppg scorers did a pretty good job. THe problem with EJ was that his best offensive big was a terrible defender (Jamison). Yes the Wizards should have played Haywood more, but it's not like Haywood has been a better player without EJ and his system.

I think EJ just has to prove to be a better coach than Mike Brown offensively. All you have to point to is Larry Huges contract year with the Wizards versus how he played with Mike Brown and the Cavs with LeBron.

A lot of players had career years playing for Eddie Jordan.

Larry Hughes led the league in steals, and made 1st team All NBA Defense that contract season. An injury and fan voting for Grant Hill made Hughes just miss the All Star game. Jamison made his only two all star games (2005, 2008); and Caron Butler made his only two also (2007, 2008) playing for Eddie Jordan. Each of those guys, like Hughes, has played for at least 3 other coaches but EJ's offense made them stars. Eddie boosted a lot of careers. Jared Jeffries was a starter on two playoff teams under Jordan. DeShawn Stevens and Antonio Daniels had their best individual performance seasons under Eddie Jordan, making the playoffs. Roger Mason Jr had his best season under EJ. Juan Dixon played his only relevant ball under EJ, too. And let's not forget Darius Songalia or Micheal Ruffin, either. Who else did they play well for?

Flip Saunders could not win anything with the same players EJ took to the playoffs.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I remember hearing Mike Brown talk about how much he hated playing against the EJ Wizards because of how hard it was to prepare for their offense. He said EJ called a brilliant offensive game and that he had counters for every adjustment Brown made defensively.

The execution of any offensive system is dependent on personnel and talent. EJ now has the best talent he has ever had -- by a huge margin -- to run his offense. He has the best backcourt he's ever had. He has the best two bigs he's ever had. He has three super high basketball IQ guys in Kobe, Nash and Gasol. He has a respect vet in Jamison who is experienced in his system and can help the rest of the team pick it up faster.

EJ's system was great at creating favorable matchups and getting guys the ball in spots in position to exploit them. The Lakers are going to be fun to watch and very good offensively.

Their problem could be defense. They were near-elite under Jackson and dropped to 13th last year. Without improving that, they aren't getting out of the West, maybe not even to the WCF.

There is already other familiarity. Jamison played a year with Steve Nash in Dallas. Antawn won NBA the Sixth Man award and had his career best shooting year with Nash. He has already played for EJ and he's played for and against Mike Brown. These coaches and players will certainly be fond of one another at this stage of their careers.

fisher, the Laker defense got a little worse with Ramon Sessions (I know I praised him in other threads) at PG. Neither he nor Fisher are good defenders. Nash is on a par with them if not better defensively, but much more effective offensively. The Laker defense will be the issue to deal with, but it might not have gotten worse while the offensive efficiency is potentially much better.

[closg00]

OTOH, Doug Collins took the same lottery-bound Philly team that EJ had and took them to the playoffs. I don't think EJ is a very good coach, but his teaming with Brown in LA might work.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I like Eddie and think he's a good man. I don't think he was a terrible coach. He was a terrible defensive coach but a fine offensive mind. I love the way he treated his players and the fans. Jordan is a class act. He's not a great coach at all IMO. I think with a lot of talent, he can be a good coach. At the same time, those guys will need to buy in to his system, and EJ will need to be much more flexible and ready to adapt if they don't. Otherwise, things will go like they did in Sacramento and in Philly for EJ.

I just choose to focus on the good EJ from NJ and early Washington days, and think that guy is who the Lakers will get. Jordan has had some time away from the game, and I think he'll come back better than ever. I also think firing him 12 games after his final playoff loss was the wrong move and Washington has struggled since, deservedly so. Ernie has fired Flip and all of the young players called "knuckleheads" are gone.

On the subject of former Wizards, Stevenson, Butler, and Haywood now have championship rings. McGee is making 11M, not 14M as the Wizards feared he would command. He played in the playoffs. Nick is earning a reasonable one-year base and should start in Philly, as Javale will in Denver. Blatche has been amnestied, but I bet he'll end up on San Antonio or Portland (pure guess). Jamison has surfaced in LA on the other LA team from Caron. My point in bringing up all the former players is that they still have jobs and are in rotations. For all EG invested, Miller hit those threes and has a ring now from Miami. Foye played in the playoffs, but as a Clipper. Useful elsewhere under better management.

EJ will be fine, too. So will the Wizards when they get rid of the last remnant of futility all these years.

[cdouglas]

What's the future of Gilbert Arenas now??

[Zonkerbl]

EJ was fool's gold. He was very very good at maximizing the offensive talents of individual players and mixing the talents together to create a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts. You really can't ask for more than that. Larry Hughes, Butler, and Ared frickin Effries had career years under EJ.

But yeah, to achieve this, he had to sacrifice defense. In fact it looked like his offensive system worked best when defense is deliberately neglected. He consistently refused to play Brendan Haywood, even though the team performed significantly better when he played.

It's one thing if this is a conscious decision, but it looked like EJ simply didn't understand NBA defense at all. He's the one, after all, who convinced Gilbert Arenas that gambling for steals in the passing lanes was more important than playing good positional defense.

EJ is largely responsible for everything that happened, good and bad, during the Arenas years. He's responsible for a truly inspired offense that got the zards into the playoffs for the first time in decades. He's responsible for developing a culture that 1) didn't appreciate defense at all and 2) encouraged goofiness over professionalism, which I suspect contributed significantly to the gungate incident, although I'm starting to think now that Javaris Crittendon played a much bigger role in that that most people realize, although Gilbert certainly didn't help things.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Javaris allegedly killed someone. Yeah, he played a big role in whatever went down.

Eddie wasn't even the coach when unprofessional card games that turned potentially violent went down. Flip was. If anything, Fip's lack of command with the players allowed things to mushroom into a potentially dangerous situation. Flip was the coach when the culture turned negative, after Flip's every critical press conference where everyone had a problem but the sorry loser of a coach.

Eddie didn't snitch on Gilbert. EG did. Eddie didn't throw his player under the bus publicly, before a trial. EG did on the Pollins' behalf, and with the approval of Ted Leonsis.

Eddie didn't call players knuckleheads and throw them under the bus. Flip did.

What Flip managed to do is denigrate others while losing. What others are doing is denigrating EJ, who won more than Flip. They say EJ rode Gil, but EJs best season IMO is where he rode Daniels, Stevenson, and Mason Jr. to the playoffs without Gil. Eddie won over forty games several times. Flip couldn't win more than 27 games, great contract, veteran team, veteran GM, and young bigs all in place.

What Flip did was latch on to true fool's gold: Andray Blatche. That is the guy Ernie resigned. But in the end Blatche got labeled for what his work ethic is, while Ernie kept his job.

But let's knock EJ, who has a job with the Lakers …

Yeah, right!

[hands11]

Adding Nash to Kobe, Bynum, Gastol and Metta with Jamison off the bench, they will be very good regardless.

The ultimate bailout for EFJ to redeem his reputation.

[OffTheWall2]

Hey, don't get me wrong I actually met Eddie Jordan when he was coaching here, he's a great guy!

I just always thought his Wizards teams underperformed.

Also, I don't think he will command the respect of the Lakers veterans that is required to implement his system. Heck, I don't think even Antawn Jamison will command the respect of anyone on the Lakers, therefore I don't buy the idea of them completely going to a 2005 Wizards Type Princeton system. It's basically going to be the same over-the-hill team, with Nash struggling to share the ball with Kobe, who struggles to share the ball with Bynum/Gasol.

Lakers are way past done.

[OffTheWall2]

Oh, and how could I forget? I've never, ever forgiven EJ for wanting Kevin Ollie over Arenas.

Also, from what I remember, EJ was mostly responsible for us drafting (and then force-feeding minutes to) Arvis Hayes. ugh.

[DMVleGeND]

Oh, and how could I forget? I've never, ever forgiven EJ for wanting Kevin Ollie over Arenas.

Also, from what I remember, EJ was mostly responsible for us drafting (and then force-feeding minutes to) Arvis Hayes. ugh.

And also for not wanting Thibs when EG hired him SMFH.

[Kanyewest]

Looking back, I actually think the Wizards actually met expectations in the posteason. In 2005, getting to the 2nd round was good and no one had them beating the Heat who went on to the conference finals (although maybe they should have won a game or 2). In 2006, the Wizards struggled without Larry Hughes but managed to make it to the playoffs, LeBron going nuts and the refs not calling travel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGiBXYJi ... ure=g-like), and Gilbert missing 2 crucial free throws down the stretch in game 6 cost them the series. In 2007, Arena and Butler went down with injuries. And in 2008, that was a nice run but looking back now, it's not surprising that a team with caron Butler as your best player got knocked out in the 1st round.

But yeah EJ has his faults. His team's defenses were inconsistent. He overplayed Jamison who often wore down when it came down to the postseason and he didn't give Haywood enough minutes.

Ultimately the team failed because Arenas never came back to 100% and that wasn't EJ's fault.