ImageImageImageImageImage

Tracking Former Wizards 3.0

Moderators: pineappleheadindc, LyricalRico, WizStorm, nate33, miller31time

User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 40,307
And1: 1,877
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#886 » by nate33 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:29 pm

hands11 wrote:
nate33 wrote:If they had kept Dray, the team would have had just $5M in cap room (after dumping Lewis). Keeping Dray would not have affected the Okariza/Lewis trade because that was a trade, not a free agency acquisition.

Indeed, I would have understood the Okariza trade much more if they had kept Blatche. The premise would be that Ariza and Okafor were better than what the Wizards could otherwise acquire by dumping Lewis and shopping for free agents with just $5M in cap room. The effed up thing is that EG amnestied Blatche AFTER the Okariza trade. After the Okariza trade, we had no available cap room regardless of whether we amnestied Blatche or not.

If he amnestied Blatche first, he would then have the option of buying out Lewis and freeing up $12M in cap room. And $12M in free agency would surely have gotten us more talent than Okafor plus Ariza.


So they could have Dray and the Trevor A and Okafor deal and still had 5M or they would have been capped out ?

Once the Okariza deal took place, their cap figure jumped from Lewis' $14M buyout to Okariza's combined $21M price. They would have therefore been capped out. However they still would have had the MLE (which happens to be $5M). That would have been enough for Webster and Price. Basically, amnestying Blatche did absolutely NOTHING for their cap flexibility. Nothing at all.

EG managed to make the worst possible combination of decisions in the worst possible order. Amnesty Blatche first and he could have had $12M in cap room. The alternative would have been to keep Blatche at the same out-of-pocket cost to Ted and with the exact same cap flexibility. Instead, EG went with Door Number Three and traded for Okariza and then amnestying Blatche. He lost both the cap room and Blatche's production, without saving Ted a dime in out-of-pocket expenses.

I can say without even a whiff of hyperbole that EG couldn't have squandered his resources any more if he tried. He gave away Blatche and a pick just to acquire Okafor and Ariza, who cost more and are less productive than any number of players he could have obtained in free agency. I just can't fathom that Ted let him keep his job after this.
User avatar
Nivek
Head Coach
Posts: 7,406
And1: 955
Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Contact:
         

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#887 » by Nivek » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:08 pm

penbeast0 wrote:What does a team composed of all the ex-Wizards in the league look like this year?

McGee/Blatche/Gee/Rip/?

Bench: N.Young/Jamison/C.Butler . . .


This sounds like a job for PPA (my PER-like stat rating system). Below is the lineup, along with their rating (100 = average, higher is better):

PG - Foye -- 79
SG - Stackhouse -- 106
SF - Mike Miller -- 103
PF - Blatche -- 183
C - McGee -- 167

Bench
F - Jamison -- 118
F - Rasheed Wallace -- 98
SG - Stevenson -- 89
F - Lewis -- 77
C - Haywood -- 73
SG - Young -- 73
SF - Butler -- 71

Others
SG - Hamilton -- 68
PG - Blake -- 67
PG - Hinrich -- 63
F/C - Kwame Brown -- 56
G/F -- Gee -- 56
G - Roger Mason -- 52
SF - Josh Howard -- 49
SF - McGuire -- 45
F - Jared Jeffries -- -62
"A lot of what we call talent is the desire to practice."
-- Malcolm Gladwell

Check out my blog about the Wizards, movies, writing, music, TV, sports, and whatever else comes to mind.
User avatar
Nivek
Head Coach
Posts: 7,406
And1: 955
Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Contact:
         

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#888 » by Nivek » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:11 pm

nate33 wrote:
I can say without even a whiff of hyperbole that EG couldn't have squandered his resources any more if he tried. He gave away Blatche and a pick just to acquire Okafor and Ariza, who cost more and are less productive than any number of players he could have obtained in free agency. I just can't fathom that Ted let him keep his job after this.


It's not hyperbole, and it actually gets worse. Not only did Ted NOT fire Grunfeld for this sequence of decisions, he BRAGGED about how clever the trade was in his blog. While the team was in the process of making the worst choices they could make, Ted thought they were being smart.
"A lot of what we call talent is the desire to practice."
-- Malcolm Gladwell

Check out my blog about the Wizards, movies, writing, music, TV, sports, and whatever else comes to mind.
User avatar
Illuminaire
Starter
Posts: 2,435
And1: 101
Joined: Jan 04, 2010

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#889 » by Illuminaire » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:40 pm

I would sig that, Kevin, but I fear seeing that every day would lead me to consider alcoholism.
User avatar
closg00
RealGM
Posts: 15,550
And1: 323
Joined: Nov 21, 2004

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#890 » by closg00 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:11 pm

Nivek wrote:
nate33 wrote:
I can say without even a whiff of hyperbole that EG couldn't have squandered his resources any more if he tried. He gave away Blatche and a pick just to acquire Okafor and Ariza, who cost more and are less productive than any number of players he could have obtained in free agency. I just can't fathom that Ted let him keep his job after this.


It's not hyperbole, and it actually gets worse. Not only did Ted NOT fire Grunfeld for this sequence of decisions, he BRAGGED about how clever the trade was in his blog. While the team was in the process of making the worst choices they could make, Ted thought they were being smart.


This exchange belongs in the HOF thread, who's with me?
Guys on a message board could do a better job managing the Wizards than Ernie Grunfeld.
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 33,708
And1: 1,068
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Location: Ft. Washington, MD/Mililani, HI

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#891 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:13 pm

nate33 wrote:Once the Okariza deal took place, their cap figure jumped from Lewis' $14M buyout to Okariza's combined $21M price. They would have therefore been capped out. However they still would have had the MLE (which happens to be $5M). That would have been enough for Webster and Price. Basically, amnestying Blatche did absolutely NOTHING for their cap flexibility. Nothing at all.

EG managed to make the worst possible combination of decisions in the worst possible order. Amnesty Blatche first and he could have had $12M in cap room. The alternative would have been to keep Blatche at the same out-of-pocket cost to Ted and with the exact same cap flexibility. Instead, EG went with Door Number Three and traded for Okariza and then amnestying Blatche. He lost both the cap room and Blatche's production, without saving Ted a dime in out-of-pocket expenses.

I can say without even a whiff of hyperbole that EG couldn't have squandered his resources any more if he tried. He gave away Blatche and a pick just to acquire Okafor and Ariza, who cost more and are less productive than any number of players he could have obtained in free agency. I just can't fathom that Ted let him keep his job after this.


Speaking of a whiff, I would drug test the man. At times I wonder if he's under the influence when he makes deals like the Okafor trade and the Nene trade. You simply cannot trade right at the trade deadline for a player approaching 30 years old who misses many games to injury . As questionable a decision as the Nene trade was, you can't tell me he put valid analysis into the Okariza deal. That was a fail on so many levels. I would think very stupid or somebody's on drugs to make that deal.

I don't want to start any rumors, but I have wondered how a guy could be so wrong. When I was i the military we were tested randomly. I truly think executives should have the same standard applied because you never know.
Klay Thompson is my new favorite NBA player.
"God is good," were his words after his record 37 point quarter.
His defense on James Harden was also impressive.
He also credits his father.#RESPECTFUL
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 33,708
And1: 1,068
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Location: Ft. Washington, MD/Mililani, HI

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#892 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:20 pm

Nivek wrote:
nate33 wrote:
I can say without even a whiff of hyperbole that EG couldn't have squandered his resources any more if he tried. He gave away Blatche and a pick just to acquire Okafor and Ariza, who cost more and are less productive than any number of players he could have obtained in free agency. I just can't fathom that Ted let him keep his job after this.


It's not hyperbole, and it actually gets worse. Not only did Ted NOT fire Grunfeld for this sequence of decisions, he BRAGGED about how clever the trade was in his blog. While the team was in the process of making the worst choices they could make, Ted thought they were being smart.


What I wonder is are Ted and EG so prideful they don't now realize the depth and breadth of their miscalculations? Are they in denial and/or are they disingenuous enough to keep spouting about Wall's return, as if that is why their veteran acquisitions have not panned out.

What Ted seems to be to me is blinded by hero worship when it comes to EG. It's Abe and Wes all over again. No matter what, they're tight and running the business like a Mom & Pop store.
Klay Thompson is my new favorite NBA player.
"God is good," were his words after his record 37 point quarter.
His defense on James Harden was also impressive.
He also credits his father.#RESPECTFUL
User avatar
Nivek
Head Coach
Posts: 7,406
And1: 955
Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Contact:
         

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#893 » by Nivek » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:21 pm

Grunfeld must have some kind of Jedi mind thing over team owners. My guess is that they've convinced themselves that the problem is injuries to Wall and Nene and that everyone would play better if those two were in the lineup.
"A lot of what we call talent is the desire to practice."
-- Malcolm Gladwell

Check out my blog about the Wizards, movies, writing, music, TV, sports, and whatever else comes to mind.
payitforward
Analyst
Posts: 3,295
And1: 502
Joined: May 02, 2012

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#894 » by payitforward » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:47 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:What I wonder is are Ted and EG so prideful they don't now realize the depth and breadth of their miscalculations?

Oh, there's no question about it -- they have no notion that they were making the wrong moves. They think this is all "bad luck."

Some time this Fall Ted said something on the order that the sports team industry was unique because you could be derailed so easily by chance.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:What Ted seems to be to me is blinded by hero worship when it comes to EG.

I'm afraid it's slightly different from that. Ted hero-worships Ted. He thinks Ted has a plan and is perfect. Ernie encourages him to hero-worship himself, because it lets him keep his job. As I've written a few times already, Ernie Grunfield has one great skill as a GM: he knows how to manage his owner.
People say I'm mellowing with age. Nah.

It is still not possible to formulate a counter-argument -- even if I say... Is so!
Zonkerbl
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 3,889
And1: 316
Joined: Mar 24, 2010
       

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#895 » by Zonkerbl » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:10 pm

No mention of McGee's nice game against Minnesota?
Comparing Rose to Wall is like asking which is a more impressive cat: A cheetah or a wolf? Dude, Wall ain’t no damn cat!
User avatar
sashae
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,271
And1: 49
Joined: Dec 15, 2003
Location: nyc

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#896 » by sashae » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:18 pm

Nick Young had a nice night as well, 30pts, 4reb, 2ast, 1 stl including 6-12 from 3 and 52% shooting overall in a loss to the Lakers.
the wizards are good?!??
User avatar
closg00
RealGM
Posts: 15,550
And1: 323
Joined: Nov 21, 2004

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#897 » by closg00 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:23 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:No mention of McGee's nice game against Minnesota?


It was against SAC, 19 points in 21 min, but the game was a blowout.
Guys on a message board could do a better job managing the Wizards than Ernie Grunfeld.
Zonkerbl
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 3,889
And1: 316
Joined: Mar 24, 2010
       

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#898 » by Zonkerbl » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:20 pm

whoops.
Comparing Rose to Wall is like asking which is a more impressive cat: A cheetah or a wolf? Dude, Wall ain’t no damn cat!
User avatar
sashae
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,271
And1: 49
Joined: Dec 15, 2003
Location: nyc

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#899 » by sashae » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:50 pm

Shelvin Mack, D-League player of the week for the Maine Red Claws. Too bad there's no NBA franchise desperately in need of PG help.
the wizards are good?!??
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 33,708
And1: 1,068
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Location: Ft. Washington, MD/Mililani, HI

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#900 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:29 pm

The Wizards are so frustrating. They need PG help and Livingston, like Pardo, has failed miserably.

They distanced themselves prematurely from Shelvin Mack. I hope for Shelvin's sake a good team will call him up.
Klay Thompson is my new favorite NBA player.
"God is good," were his words after his record 37 point quarter.
His defense on James Harden was also impressive.
He also credits his father.#RESPECTFUL
User avatar
hands11
RealGM
Posts: 28,984
And1: 2,045
Joined: May 16, 2005
   

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#901 » by hands11 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:38 am

Nick and McGee are going to have good games. That is not a negative for the Wizards. They had good games and good runs of games here as well.

As for Mack, I don't have a huge problem with how it played out. Hopefully the DL has helped him hone his skills. But we are talking an average back up PG. For that, they went with Price who is quicker and a better defender. Its just he is hurt now.

I think the bigger problem was not having anything near a starting PG to replace Wall while he was out. Price wasn't it. Best they could have done was make Crawford that player but they didn't do that early enough.

But then again. That is assuming Ted didn't want another tank year under his belt. Which its looking more and more like he did/do.

You don't start a back up PG like Price ( or Mack if he was here) with a 19 year old kid and no #1 or #2 scoring options unless you are outright stupid or you are looking to tank.
Step by Step - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1269473&start=45&p=36843686&view=show#p36843686

Why so many poster have hotties as avatars. If anything screams can't get any, that would be it.
User avatar
hands11
RealGM
Posts: 28,984
And1: 2,045
Joined: May 16, 2005
   

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#902 » by hands11 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:01 am

Nivek wrote:Grunfeld must have some kind of Jedi mind thing over team owners. My guess is that they've convinced themselves that the problem is injuries to Wall and Nene and that everyone would play better if those two were in the lineup.


So your position is that they wouldn't play better with Wall and Nene in the line up ?

Hey, I know it is cathartic and all to beat on Ted and EG. Lord knows we are all frustrated. Specially since they have accumulated some pieces.

But come on now. Of course they would be better with those two out there. No Wall and Nene to start the year had a huge effect on this season. And to make it worse, Kevin was injured preseason as well. And now they don't have Trevor A, Price and Booker on top of that.

This has been a train wreck. But at least we are probably behind the worst of Beals play. He should start to rebound now. Kevin S is someone who's development will be fun to watch. He could still be a beast if they keep developing him well. There are still pieces that will be fun to watch get better. But the season... the season is shot. Its a tank. And that sucks. You can no longer count on them doing anything logical to win because winning is bad for the tank. God I hate tank years. Takes all the fun out of expecting them to do anything good or logical. Gotta put your tank logic hat on to predict their next moves.
Step by Step - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1269473&start=45&p=36843686&view=show#p36843686

Why so many poster have hotties as avatars. If anything screams can't get any, that would be it.
User avatar
TGW
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,384
And1: 917
Joined: Oct 22, 2010

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#903 » by TGW » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:07 am

Nick Young didn't have a good game against the Lakers...alot of garbage buckets and typical Nick Young iso-shot jacking.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
User avatar
Halcyon
Starter
Posts: 2,086
And1: 95
Joined: Jun 16, 2008
       

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#904 » by Halcyon » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:06 pm

Josh Howard cut, apparently torn ACL.
User avatar
Induveca
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,977
And1: 170
Joined: Dec 02, 2004
   

Re: Tracking Former Wizards 3.0 

Post#905 » by Induveca » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:03 pm

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/12/29/he-got-paid-so-where-is-javale-mcgee/

Ouch, McGee called a "20 minute player" by Karl. Article slams McGee pretty badly as a disappoint,emt, essentially calling him "not so bright" and unreliable, but not in those exact words.

Return to Washington Wizards


Users browsing this forum: DANNYLANDOVER, jeffsays, lastemp3ror, Wizardspride