The honorable CCJ Moneyball challenge

[doclinkin]

Okay so, -- because it's summer and there are many long days to fill now:

Following a conversation in the free agents thread, what's the best cheapest team you can build on players who are not on their rookie contract? What's the best team you can assemble with the most underrated underdogs on bargain contracts, who could still have a chance to win a 'chip.

Go bargain hunting. Never mind working out the trades, just imagine you could build from scratch.

EDITED for severn hoos rules:

* Must have 12 players (feel free to add up to 15 if you want)
* Must stay underneath the $57.7M salary cap
* Must use 2009-10 salaries (sorry all you fans of the Pauls - Chris & Millsap)
* Only players off-limits are Lottery picks still on rookie contracts
* Can only use a #1 overall pick if he's already changed teams (Iverson, Kwame, and Shaq, but not LeBron, Dwight, Duncan, etc.)

[Halcyon]

I'll just use next year's salaries.

Starters
PG: Chris Paul ($13,520,000)
SG: Kevin Martin ($10,180,170)
SF: John Salmons ($5,456,000)
PF: Antonio McDyess ($5,854,000)
C: Brendan Haywood ($6,000,000)

Backups:
PG: Sebastian Telfair ($2,500,000)
SG: JR Smith ($5,508,426)
SF: Travis Outlaw ($4,000,000)
PF: Andray Blatche ($3,000,000)
C: Kendrick Perkins ($4,250,000)

Total is approximately $60.26 million, which would be slightly over the cap, but still well below luxury tax range. This team has nice interior defense, solid defense on the wing, ability to run and gun with Paul, and good rebounding. The bench has nice bigmen, and some scoring as well.

[MJG]

$60 million cutoff, no players in eight figures, ten guys:

Starters
PG: Jose Calderon (8.2)
SG: John Salmons (5.5)
SF: Danny Granger (9.9)
PF: David West (9.0)
C: Brendan Haywood (6.0)

Backups
PG: Steve Blake (4.9)
SG: JR Smith (5.5)
SF: Grant Hill (3.0)
PF: Carl Landry (3.0)
C: Andray Blatche (3.0)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I cannot argue with your starting backcourt, Halcyon!

Mind if I ask where you got your salary info? Could you post a link?

(I'm gonna defer on this just a bit before commenting or posting my team.)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

$60 million cutoff, no players in eight figures, ten guys:

Starters
PG: Jose Calderon (8.2)
SG: John Salmons (5.5)
SF: Danny Granger (9.9)
PF: David West (9.0)
C: Brendan Haywood (6.0)

Backups
PG: Steve Blake (4.9)
SG: JR Smith (5.5)
SF: Grant Hill (3.0)
PF: Carl Landry (3.0)
C: Andray Blatche (3.0)

I can't wait til a few more post come in! Thanks for playing along, MJG.

doc, this is good.

[doclinkin]

Salaries:

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages ... /index.jsp

Let's see what it looks like if we try to build the team under the salary cap, let's call it 12 players, the active roster limit.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Salaries:

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages ... /index.jsp

Let's see what it looks like if we try to build the team under the salary cap.

Great. NBA sets salary cap for next season at $58.68 million

doc, why no rookie deal guys? (There are at least two I'd seriously consider.)

[doclinkin]

doc, why no rookie deal guys? (There are at least two I'd seriously consider.)

Too cheap. Best dollar for value players are the young superstars. And no team can count on landing that many lucky draft picks. The challenge is to see how smart a GM you'd be with a budget, not how lucky you are.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

doc, why no rookie deal guys? (There are at least two I'd seriously consider.)

Too cheap. Best dollar for value players are the young superstars. And no team can count on landing that many lucky draft picks. The challenge is to see how smart a GM you'd be with a budget, not how lucky you are.

Cool.

BTW, that link was for this past season's cap. Is it okay or would you rather use the 09-10 figure?

[Rafael122]

PG - Devin Harris - $8.4 million
SG - Francisco Garcia - $5.8 million
SF - John Salmons - $6.4 million
PF - Amare - $16 million
C - Haywood - $6 million

Starters: $42.6

Bench:

PG - Steve Blake - $4 million
SG - Ricky Davis - $2.4 million
SF - Kelenna Azubuike - $3.1 million
PF - Luis Scola - $3.2 million
C - Carl Landry - $3 million

Bench: $15.7 million

Total: $58.3 million

Doc - I don't know if thats what you were looking for. They've got an all star at the point, and power forward positions. Nice interior defense, and rebounding, and we've got some scoring punch off the bench with Kelenna and Scola plus Blake could probably be instant offense as well.

Edit: Changed it up.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Starters
PG Tony Parker 12.60M
SG Delonte West 4.25M
SF James Posey 6.03M
PF Rasheed Wallace 5.85M
C Dwight Howard 15.20M

Starters: 43.93M

Bench
PG Eddie House 2.86
SG Roger Mason 3.78
SF Micheal Finley 2.5M
PF Antonio McDyess 3.26M
C Andray Blatche 3.0M

Bench: 15.4 M

Total 59.33M

I'm in tax territory to start with ... but to have six guys that have already earned at least one ring this is a good start. I'm going with known winners at every position, hopefully. ('cept Blatche).

My team defends, scores inside and out, and is very balanced. Posey locks up the perimeter. Dwight and Sheed are better then Ben and Sheed. Parker's been Finals MVP.

Will redo this team based on doc's (posted later) revisions of guys on rookie deals .. it gets MUCH simpler.

[doclinkin]

Next year's cap is $57.7 million. The minimum team salary is $43.275 million. I'd love to see the competitive squad for the minimum salary...


For end of bench filler, the minimum salaries are found here.

[doclinkin]

doc, why no rookie deal guys? (There are at least two I'd seriously consider.)

Too cheap. Best dollar for value players are the young superstars. And no team can count on landing that many lucky draft picks. The challenge is to see how smart a GM you'd be with a budget, not how lucky you are.

That said, I think we can allow 2nd round rookie/first contract deals since they don't have the same salary restrictions. And anybody with a draft pick had a chance to land them. Unless y'all think that's a cheat.

Objections? Agree/disagree? Any input on the 12 player active roster restriction? The CBA requires an aggregate average of 14 players otherwise you pay a penalty to the player's union if I recall correctly. But whatever, the 12 player active roster seems fair.

[spaceman_E]

PG Devin Harris 8.4 / Steve Blake 4 / Shaun Livingston 900K
SG JR Smith 5.5 / Maurice Evans 2.5
SF Danny Granger 9.9 / Travis Outlaw 3.8 / Lou Amundson 900K
PF Paul Milsaap 7.2? / Luis Scola 3.2
C Brendan Haywood 6 /Andray Blatche 3


$55.3 million with 12 players.

[fishercob]

What I find interesting about this thread is that none of these teams are perfect. Some would contend for a title, but none would be prohibitive favorites. Just shows how much of a role luck, as well as money, play in building a title-winner.

[mzaretsk]

Steve Blake $4,000,000
Grant Hill $3,000,000
Shane Battier $6,864,200
LeBron James $15,779,912
Rasheed Wallace $5,854,000

Anthony Carter $2,000,000
Kelenna Azubuike $3,100,000
Linas Kleiza $2,705,723
Andray Blatche $3,000,000
Brendan Haywood $6,000,000

$53.3MM, assuming carter signs for around 2 per season and hill for 3.

[nate33]

Steve Blake $4,000,000
Delonte West $4,254,250
Lebron James $15,779,913
Luis Scola $3,284,667
Dwight Howard 15,202,590

Jose Barea $1,657,500
Roger Mason 3,780,000
Pops Mensah-Bonsu 711,517
Andray Blatche 3,000,000
Adonal Foyle $825,000

That's about $54.5M. And they would easily win a championship with Lebron and Dwight on the same team. If I wanted to get better, I could dump Steve Blake and grab Devin Harris and still fit under the $60M threshold.

[doclinkin]

Steve Blake $4,000,000
Delonte West $4,254,250
Lebron James $15,779,913
Luis Scola $3,284,667
Dwight Howard 15,202,590

Jose Barea $1,657,500
Roger Mason 3,780,000
Pops Mensah-Bonsu 711,517
Andray Blatche 3,000,000
Adonal Foyle $825,000

That's about $54.5M. And they would easily win a championship with Lebron and Dwight on the same team. If I wanted to get better, I could dump Steve Blake and grab Devin Harris and still fit under the $60M threshold.

Pretty nasty. Still two players short of an active roster. Needs a couple minimum salary players. But would still fit under the $57.7 mill cap. You win with LeBron this year, go over the cap next year to resign him. But on the same squad with Howard he ain't going anywhere.

Now do it without two re-upped number one overall picks in their prime, since I can't see how anyone could 'smart' their way into landing them other than winning the lotto twice. It's still a bit of a cheat.

Hmmn. How to close that loophole...

[Severn Hoos]

Now do it without two re-upped number one overall picks in their prime, since I can't see how anyone could 'smart' their way into landing them other than winning the lotto twice. It's still a bit of a cheat.

Hmmn. How to close that loophole...

How about doing it without any #1 overalls?

[doclinkin]

Okay, that's good. I was thinking:

Assume a perennially good team, no lotto picks over the past 6 years?
Allow one top 3 lotto pick from the past decade, rookie contract or no?

Essentially the question is, with the same playing field, can you out-Spurs the Spurs. Out-Rockets the Rockets. But both won the top pick.

Can you win cheap without unlikely luck. So sure. No number one overall.