How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

closg00 · Post #161 » by **closg00** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:06 pm

Not part of the thread. but don't sleep on Indiana, they came-on strong at the end of the season, Roy Hibbert reportedly has made significant improvements over last-year....and that bug-eyed PF they got in the draft will also help them in small ways.

Post #162 » by **nate33** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:44 pm

closg00 wrote:Not part of the thread. but don't sleep on Indiana, they came-on strong at the end of the season, Roy Hibbert reportedly has made significant improvements over last-year....and that bug-eyed PF they got in the draft will also help them in small ways.

I am definitely sleeping on Indiana and will continue to sleep on Indiana. They are not in the conversation for the top 4 in the East.

I agree with Dat2U regarding our place in the East. We will finish with a record 5-10 games behind Boston, Cleveland and Orlando because we're not a consistent defensive team. But in the playoffs, we should match up with those teams fairly well. I'm not saying we're favorites to beat any of them, but it wouldn't surprise me if we beat them either.

closg00 · Post #163 » by **closg00** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:40 pm

nate33 wrote:
closg00 wrote:Not part of the thread. but don't sleep on Indiana, they came-on strong at the end of the season, Roy Hibbert reportedly has made significant improvements over last-year....and that bug-eyed PF they got in the draft will also help them in small ways.

I am definitely sleeping on Indiana and will continue to sleep on Indiana. They are not in the conversation for the top 4 in the East.

I agree with Dat2U regarding our place in the East. We will finish with a record 5-10 games behind Boston, Cleveland and Orlando because we're not a consistent defensive team. But in the playoffs, we should match up with those teams fairly well. I'm not saying we're favorites to beat any of them, but it wouldn't surprise me if we beat them either.

Totally agree, Indiana will not be in the top-5, but should not look past Eastern teams that have improved or were decent last year, who-knows how the match-ups are gonna work-out this year. For some reason, we always matched-up well with Boston & Cleveland last year, this year ????

Post #164 » by **LyricalRico** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:50 pm

closg00 wrote:Totally agree, Indiana will not be in the top-5, but should not look past Eastern teams that have improved or were decent last year, who-knows how the match-ups are gonna work-out this year.

I was definitely not looking past Charlotte...until yesterday. Now I'm sure they'll be last in the division, probably by a lot. And it's a shame because they looked good in the second half of last season and were only a move or two away from competing for a playoff spot. But they just set their franchise back several years.

happypedro12 · Post #165 » by **happypedro12** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:00 pm

BREAKING NEWS: CLIPPERS TO CHALLENGE FOR WESTERN CONFERNCE SUPREMACY!!!

I appreciate love for ones team, but to say one of the worst teams is going to be better than one of the best teams purely because "we're healthy" is asinine. Arenas hasn't played in 2 years what makes you think he's coming back 100%? Antwan Jamison is good, but just as old as VC and IMO is a wash with rashard. Butler had a couple good years but if we are comparing I'd much rather take VC. Plus no one on that team can even hold Dwights jock strap. You're going to the top of the league with D Stevenson?? really? the old magic player who could never finish a layup? To say that your better than the Magic would imply your also better than Boston, Cleveland, Miami, Toronto, Chicago. Washington won 19 games last year be serious. Also, the Magic have so much more depth than Washington its almost not even worth typing. Juan dixon? Andrey Blatche? Etan Thomas? Oh I forgot, Mike miller and Oberto, now the Wizards are truly menacing. Go really check the rosters and say the wiz have a better bench. I have nothing against the Wizards and to be fair, if the stars fall perfectly into sync for this team, you are looking at a 8-6th seed in the east MAYBE 5th. Atlanta and Miami both were in the playoffs and the SE division is becoming crowded. The Wiz, if healthy all season, will be vastly improved over last year, maybe even a +20 game improvement. However, to say a team that won less than 20 games a year ago is going to compete for conference supremacy is foolish.

Post #166 » by **nate33** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:45 pm

happypedro12 wrote:BREAKING NEWS: CLIPPERS TO CHALLENGE FOR WESTERN CONFERNCE SUPREMACY!!!

I appreciate love for ones team, but to say one of the worst teams is going to be better than one of the best teams purely because "we're healthy" is asinine. Arenas hasn't played in 2 years what makes you think he's coming back 100%? Antwan Jamison is good, but just as old as VC and IMO is a wash with rashard. Butler had a couple good years but if we are comparing I'd much rather take VC. Plus no one on that team can even hold Dwights jock strap. You're going to the top of the league with D Stevenson?? really? the old magic player who could never finish a layup? To say that your better than the Magic would imply your also better than Boston, Cleveland, Miami, Toronto, Chicago. Washington won 19 games last year be serious. Also, the Magic have so much more depth than Washington its almost not even worth typing. Juan dixon? Andrey Blatche? Etan Thomas? Oh I forgot, Mike miller and Oberto, now the Wizards are truly menacing. Go really check the rosters and say the wiz have a better bench. I have nothing against the Wizards and to be fair, if the stars fall perfectly into sync for this team, you are looking at a 8-6th seed in the east MAYBE 5th. Atlanta and Miami both were in the playoffs and the SE division is becoming crowded. The Wiz, if healthy all season, will be vastly improved over last year, maybe even a +20 game improvement. However, to say a team that won less than 20 games a year ago is going to compete for conference supremacy is foolish.

You are an ignorant troll so I probably shouldn't take the time to refute you. But I'm in a generous mood. Here goes:

Your problem is you are using last year as a baseline, and last year's team is nothing like this year's team. Last year, we were missing Arenas, Haywood, Stevenson, Mason and Etan; and we traded away Daniels because he sucked so bad. We then fired our coach, played a bunch of 21-year olds, and eventually started tanking. It was a throwaway season.

Use the 2007/08 season as a baseline. The Wizards won 43 games in 07/08. They are fielding the exact same team with the following changes:

Improvements:
Arenas returns. He was a top 10-12 player pre-injury. Maybe now he's only a top 25 player, but that's still a heck of an addition to a 43-win team.
Mike Miller added to fill our biggest position of weakness.
Randy Foye added to fill our biggest position of weakness.
Oberto added
Butler should miss less than the 24 games he missed in 07/08
Nick Young in 3rd season rather than rookie season
Andray Blatche in 4th season rather than 2nd season
McGuire in 3rd season rather than rookie season
Javale McGee added
Flip Saunders is a better coach than Eddie Jordan

Losses:
Antonio Daniels (who played just 30 mpg in 07/08 and posted a PER of only 13.8)
Roger Mason (who played just 21 mpg in 07/08 and posted a PER of only 13.9)
Darius Songaila (who played just 19 mpg in 07/08 and posted a PER of 11.9)
Jamison is 33 and may lose a step (though he had his best season last year and was 3rd in the league in total minutes played)

So tell me: why is it unreasonable to expect 48-50 wins next year? All those improvements to a 43-win team aren't worth 5 wins?

derek112 · Post #167 » by **derek112** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:07 pm

nate,

I def agree with some of your points and I understand to see how good ur team is u have to compare it to the best. But from ur 19 win team ur basically praying that arenas stays happy and only adding miller, foye and oberto. I dont think that is going to improve u by 30 games????? u cant really base ur future off last season though and i def agree with u on that. regardless of what we think ur team has def improved alot and im really looking forward to seeing u guys next year. the southeast division is goiong to be tuff this year.

Post #168 » by **LyricalRico** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:17 pm

Okay, I'm officially done with this thread. It's gonna be so great when the season starts and we start beating the favorite teams of everybody who isn't smart enough to understand what happened with the Wizards last season. The first game can't get here fast enough.

Post #169 » by **nate33** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:39 pm

derek112 wrote:nate,

I def agree with some of your points and I understand to see how good ur team is u have to compare it to the best. But from ur 19 win team ur basically praying that arenas stays happy and only adding miller, foye and oberto. I dont think that is going to improve u by 30 games????? u cant really base ur future off last season though and i def agree with u on that. regardless of what we think ur team has def improved alot and im really looking forward to seeing u guys next year. the southeast division is goiong to be tuff this year.

Take Dwight Howard away for an entire season. While you're at it, have Nelson miss the entire season as well (with no Rafer Alston to back him up). What record do you think Orlando would have? 30 wins? Now, add them back in the following season. Would it then be ridiculous to talk about winning 60 games? Of course it wouldn't be. You wouldn't even look at the 30-win season as a reference point. You would just ignore it and compare your team to the last time your superstar played.

That's basically what the Wizards lost. They lost a PG and a C, one of whom is a superstar and the other who is a quality starter at a key position. I'll cede that losing Howard would be worse than losing Arenas, but losing Haywood is worse than losing Nelson, so the analogy holds.

Donkey McDonkerton · Post #170 » by **Donkey McDonkerton** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:40 pm

Man, the new ORL fans are making it hard to root for them. I really like ORL as a team, and they were the underdog last season (after CLE & BOS). I little success and now all the ORL fans think they are the best ever and nobody can ever match them.

Guys, remember, when we are really good, DONT ACT LIKE THIS.

Wizards2Lottery · Post #171 » by **Wizards2Lottery** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:06 pm

Donkey McDonkerton wrote:Man, the new ORL fans are making it hard to root for them. I really like ORL as a team, and they were the underdog last season (after CLE & BOS). I little success and now all the ORL fans think they are the best ever and nobody can ever match them.

Guys, remember, when we are really good, DONT ACT LIKE THIS.

We can't troll on the Cavs board? Well ****...

Donkey McDonkerton · Post #172 » by **Donkey McDonkerton** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:04 pm

Gilbert0Arenas wrote: Well ****...

I think what you are trying to say is **** THIS ****!

derek112 · Post #173 » by **derek112** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:18 pm

I may not have many posts but I have been a member since 02. I don't feel what I said was talkking crap or anything like that I was just trying to join the argument. My b

JonathanJoseph · Post #174 » by **JonathanJoseph** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:24 pm

LyricalRico wrote:Okay, I'm officially done with this thread. It's gonna be so great when the season starts and we start beating the favorite teams of everybody who isn't smart enough to understand what happened with the Wizards last season. The first game can't get here fast enough.

+1

just1bullet · Post #175 » by **just1bullet** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:25 pm

In the Last 8 years this is the first thread I started that had more then 5 responses! Thanks everyone, should we wait to do Miami?

DaRealHibachi · Post #176 » by **DaRealHibachi** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:33 pm

just1bullet wrote:In the Last 8 years this is the first thread I started that had more then 5 responses! Thanks everyone, should we wait to do Miami?

If their fans are just as ignorant as most Magic fans posting here, we should...

BigA · Post #177 » by **BigA** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:39 pm

happypedro12 wrote:<snip>Plus no one on that team can even hold Dwights jock strap. <snip>

Yeah, that's the downside to losing Etan, who pretty much owned Dwight.

bullitz · Post #178 » by **bullitz** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:54 pm

I think part of the problem is we are comparing perhaps the luckiest team in NBA history with one of if not the most unlucky team in NBA history. I mean how many teams draft two world class centers with the first pick in just over a decade. Oh and draft a point guard that had the potential to be one of the best. Luck, which is what the draft boils down to no matter how good your scouts are, at least with respect to superstars. Orlando was just an expansion team and they've already been to the finals half as many times as the Wizards/Bullets. They don't know what constant failure is. They don't know countless playoff-less seasons strung together.

On the other hand, as has been said many times this is the best Wizards team in a long time and the best since what 78? Enough said. Wiz fans are hype and for good reason. We deserve it. Just ignore Orlando fans. Luck has to run out some time.

REDardWIZskin · Post #179 » by **REDardWIZskin** » Mon Aug 3, 2009 2:05 pm

bullitz wrote:I think part of the problem is we are comparing perhaps the luckiest team in NBA history with one of if not the most unlucky team in NBA history. I mean how many teams draft two world class centers with the first pick in just over a decade. Oh and draft a point guard that had the potential to be one of the best. Luck, which is what the draft boils down to no matter how good your scouts are, at least with respect to superstars. Orlando was just an expansion team and they've already been to the finals half as many times as the Wizards/Bullets. They don't know what constant failure is. They don't know countless playoff-less seasons strung together.

On the other hand, as has been said many times this is the best Wizards team in a long time and the best since what 78? Enough said. Wiz fans are hype and for good reason. We deserve it. Just ignore Orlando fans. Luck has to run out some time.

+1

dobrojim · Post #180 » by **dobrojim** » Mon Aug 3, 2009 5:02 pm

LyricalRico wrote:Okay, I'm officially done with this thread. It's gonna be so great when the season starts and we start beating the favorite teams of everybody who isn't smart enough to understand what happened with the Wizards last season. The first game can't get here fast enough.

I was thinking about this quote over the weekend.

As a season ticket holder for the upcoming season, I REALLY agree
that the first game can't get here soon enough.

hope the schedule comes out soon. I'll be in NY over the weekend
of Nov 1st so I could wind up missing the home opener.