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The Arenas comeback thread

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The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#1 » by Dat2U » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:21 pm

I figured this finally deserved its own thread. The Wizards' present and future rides on his return. We'll probably see alot of articles in the near future charting his progress after being gone for two years.

This article from the Times is abit of an eye opener. Gil credits Tim Grover for "saving his career". He also doesn't hold back from assigning some blame to the Wizards medical staff (how shocking!).

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/se ... 3_featured

The leg looked as if it belonged to someone who had been in a coma for a year, not a world-class athlete who a year earlier had signed a $111 million contract. Atrophy set in; signals weren't being sent properly. The muscles in Gilbert Arenas' left leg, in essence, had been switched to "off."
---
"If I hadn't come up here, I'd be starting off the season with a 95 percent chance that I'd be sitting out more games. ... [Mr. Grover] saved my career."
---
"If I'm saying I feel good and you know it's supposed to take six months, instead of letting me at four months run ... they should have held me back.
---
Arenas is back to his old self, eschewing the "true point guard" label and determined to attack as aggressively as ever.


Quite an interesting read. Obviously Gil is feeling confident b/c he's starting to talk again. The whole idea about being a "true PG" was brought on by the fact he thought he couldn't be the same player again. Now that he sees he can, he's going to be as aggressive as ever. That might dissapoint some like hands11 & CCJ who were hoping Gil would be more of a PG.

It's kinda shocking how bad a condition Gil's leg was in before going to Chicago. It goes to show you that the Wiz medical staff was once again, over their heads. The Wiz docs may be fine doctors to the general public, but when it comes to treating world class athletes they've failed miserably again and again. I wonder how the last 3 years or so would have been different had we employed the Suns medical staff?
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#2 » by TheSecretWeapon » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:25 pm

This is what jumped out at me:

Washington Times wrote:Those were the findings of trainer Tim Grover when the Washington Wizards' three-time NBA All-Star turned three-time surgery patient reported this summer to Attack Athletics, a Chicago training facility with a client roster of high-profile athletes.


What was Arenas doing on the floor at all last season with a leg in that condition?
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#3 » by Shanghai Kid » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:42 pm

If Arenas is better than he was before, I don't see him becoming any kind of pure PG. But that's still not really his game anyways. I have no problem with him being a dominant player offensively, maybe cut back on a few 3s and pass inside more, but nothing dramatically different than what he was before.
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#4 » by miller31time » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:50 pm

To be completely honest, I don't want Gil to be a "true point guard". I think it would take away from the things he does best and most efficiently/effectively.

I want Gil to be aggressive; to shoot shots the defense would never dream of guarding (thus keeping them on their toes), etc. Sure, if he wants to dish it out a few more times per game, that's fine. But a complete overhaul of on-court mentality? Hell naw.

In an ideal world, I want him to be the old Gilbert (maybe a *bit* more passive) + improved defense. That's really what it comes down to - defense. It's what has been holding him back as a superstar-caliber player.

Will the addition of Flip (which I'm still iffy about in terms of drastically improving team defense) and subtraction of Jordan make the difference?
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#5 » by Dat2U » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:16 pm

TheSecretWeapon wrote:This is what jumped out at me:

Washington Times wrote:Those were the findings of trainer Tim Grover when the Washington Wizards' three-time NBA All-Star turned three-time surgery patient reported this summer to Attack Athletics, a Chicago training facility with a client roster of high-profile athletes.


What was Arenas doing on the floor at all last season with a leg in that condition?


Yeah man, you gotta wonder WTF is going on here? No wonder Gil shut it down after two games. He probably felt like his leg was going to fall off after playing. Also, I remember an Orlando poster on the mainboard talking about how he saw Gil play earlier this summer at the training facility at Disney. He mentioned how it appeared Gil was still dragging that leg around and limping abit.

It's just stunning to me that Abe could have millions upon millions of dollars invested in these athletes, yet provide them with an inferior medical care. Is anyone in the front office noticing a friggin trend here? A decade long trend!

I still go back to the old story about Rip Hamilton. How he orginally broke his nose while in DC. And the Wiz doctor mistakenly performed surgery where he shaved down the nose (removing cartilage) in what's commonly considered a cosmetic procedure done for the general public, not a type of procedure you do for athletes playing in a contact sport! When he broke his nose again after being traded to Detroit, the Pistons doctor's realized that there wasn't enough cartilage there to withstand impact and that another blow to his nose could potentially force him to retire! That's why he's had to wear a protective mask to this day.
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#6 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:29 pm

Dat2U wrote:Quite an interesting read. Obviously Gil is feeling confident b/c he's starting to talk again. The whole idea about being a "true PG" was brought on by the fact he thought he couldn't be the same player again. Now that he sees he can, he's going to be as aggressive as ever. That might dissapoint some like hands11 & CCJ who were hoping Gil would be more of a PG.


If he's as efficient on offense as he was in the past, then he can play the same way he always did. His offense wasn't a problem save for the few times he'd launch a 35-40 footer that led to the opponent fastbreaking the other way. His shots early in the clock were something I didn't like. HOWEVER, ninety percent of the time Gil put pressure on opponents and made things easier for his teammates.

Dat, I'll be thrilled to have the old shotjacking Gil back. :)
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#7 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:36 pm

Dat2U wrote:
TheSecretWeapon wrote:This is what jumped out at me:

Washington Times wrote:Those were the findings of trainer Tim Grover when the Washington Wizards' three-time NBA All-Star turned three-time surgery patient reported this summer to Attack Athletics, a Chicago training facility with a client roster of high-profile athletes.


What was Arenas doing on the floor at all last season with a leg in that condition?


Yeah man, you gotta wonder WTF is going on here? No wonder Gil shut it down after two games. He probably felt like his leg was going to fall off after playing. Also, I remember an Orlando poster on the mainboard talking about how he saw Gil play earlier this summer at the training facility at Disney. He mentioned how it appeared Gil was still dragging that leg around and limping abit.

It's just stunning to me that Abe could have millions upon millions of dollars invested in these athletes, yet provide them with an inferior medical care. Is anyone in the front office noticing a friggin trend here? A decade long trend!

I still go back to the old story about Rip Hamilton. How he orginally broke his nose while in DC. And the Wiz doctor mistakenly performed surgery where he shaved down the nose (removing cartilage) in what's commonly considered a cosmetic procedure done for the general public, not a type of procedure you do for athletes playing in a contact sport! When he broke his nose again after being traded to Detroit, the Pistons doctor's realized that there wasn't enough cartilage there to withstand impact and that another blow to his nose could potentially force him to retire! That's why he's had to wear a protective mask to this day.


Rip should have known something was up when the surgeon was playing "Billy Jean" in the O.R. Same guy did Micheal Jackson's final nose job. :o

In all seriousness, how can a medical staff be incompetent? I can't understand. I also would like to have names associated with procedures or treatment plans gone bad.

Dat, thinking back on Gil, the five games he came back and averaged 41 minutes under EJ were just the stupidest thing I've ever seen. I recall posting how guys like Kidd came back after microsurgery playing very limited minutes, similar to MLB pitchers being limited to a pitch count. I KNEW it was dumb playing him that many minutes and many times said he'd be injured again. I'm not blaming just the Wizards' doctors.

EVERYBODY from the medical staff to EG to EJ to Gil himself was also culpable that time.
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#8 » by doclinkin » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:54 pm

When asked if he feels like his legs are back to 100 percent, Arenas said, “I feel great. I'm never gonna be 100 percent. But I feel great. You can't crumble up a piece of paper and then when you open it up again expect it to be smooth like it once was. But I know my legs are stronger than what they were, and now I don't have to just rely on my speed.”

That explains all the strong takes and dunks Arenas has displayed both in those pickup games at Grover's facility, the ProAm league up in Chicago and the appearances at Barry Farms and Hoop Magic in Chantilly. The fearless drives are something we didn't see in the two games Arenas played in last season, that's because Arenas' muscles had yet to be ignited by Grover and his crew, and because his confidence in the leg still was lacking, and Arenas was admittedly leery about venturing into the paint.

“I was still scoring, but it was just in the back of my mind. That reckless abandon, I didn't have it,” he says. “That fear, it was still in the back of my head. I wasn't comfortable, and didn't have power.”

So following the completion of the season, he went to Orlando to train with close friend and personal assistant John White. Arenas said he told white to get out the big training pads and instructed him to deal him a blow on every drive so he could re-acclimate himself to contact.

“He kept knocking me down again and again,” Arenas recalls. “I didn't feel like my quad was firing. I was feeling good, but didn't feel great. So then I called Tim.”


From Mike Jones' Times Outlet. Tons of Gil material in two posts.

Backs up some of what I've been seeing in the offense on the role of Nick and Dray:

Saunders demands a lot of his point guards and sees them as an extension of him on the floor. And speaking of leadership, Arenas is aware that the perception of him is that he's not a team leader.

But he says that's not because he isn't capable of leading or doesn't want to lead. Quite the contrary. He is taking seriously the task at hand.

“Flip asked me to lead this team and I'm gonna be his leader,” Arenas said. “The last coach didn't want me to be his leader, so I didn't want to be.”

When it comes to Saunders' system, Arenas looks forward to the increased freedom he will have in it. And he believes that his younger Wizards: Andray Blatche, Nick Young – will at last take the next step in their careers because of the design of Saunders' offense. The coach reportedly carries a playbook of comparable size to that of an NFL team, but Arenas describes it as a more natural system than the Princeton offense, so learning the plays aren't as challenging.

“You don't have to think so much. You just play. The offense we used to run was a thinking man's offense, and we had a lot of young players, so it didn't work. The first year we won [25] games, and then after the whole team being in it for a year, we won 45 games, but then we lose our 2-guard in Larry [Hughes]. You can't keep losing players, and then you get new guys in with that type of system. And every training camp, you gotta go back and teach.

"And we've got all these young players on the team, and your older guys in the offense get hurt, now you can't play young players like Nick and Andray and expect them to do great in that scheme. You see they have obvious talent, but they can't remember all the plays. Your I.Q. had to be great to understand the offense. Teams that run systems like that, Sacramento, New Jersey, our 49 win team, they were all older, experienced guys, but if you don't have experienced guys, it's a struggle to remember all the motion, all those cut-backs.”



great quotes on the PG position:
Arenas said he doesn't know entirely what to expect when it comes to how his stats will shake out in Flip Saunders' system, but isn't worried about it. He said he's been studying the play of Chris Paul, Deron Williams, who last season averaged 22.8 points and 11.0 assists and 19.4 points and 10.7 assists, respectively. He believes he can learn something from them on how they run the pick-and-roll and make decisions, distribute and also remain their team's top scoring threats.

Either way, Arenas expects Washington's 'Big Three' to thrive in Saunders' system, saying “We have the talent for a regular offense. I've seen Flip's play book and I think it's a great, great offense.”
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#9 » by go'stags » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:21 pm

For those who wanted a more "mature" Gilbert, it seems as if you have him. Even though he critisized the team a little, he still took some blame for it, something I dont think he would have done in the past.

He also wouldnt make any predictions, knowing that we were last in the East last year. He also didnt nickname this season anything, such as "The Takeover" or "Reloaded", as thge article mentions. He just seems focused on winning.

I never grew tired of Gilbert as many here did, and didnt care when he did that stuff, but I admit it is refreshing to hear him talk like this. I just hope there is still some "Agen Zero" in him somewhere. Thats what made him who he is, and my favorite athlete, pretty much ever. But yea, focus is a good thing.
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#10 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:42 pm

go'stags, Gil's almost sounding like future coach.

I've always thought it's not feasible to overcoach immature young players. Don't inundate most young guys with a lot of details to remember. (Some young guys, however, like Flynn or Curry seem razor sharp--they can handle complexity). Just let the average young guy do a few things, but do them all out without having to overthink. I've always thought the best coaches are the ones not married to a particular system. The best adjust to the strengths and weaknesses of their personnel. Last season could have been a fun time for the young guys to just play hard, instead of beating them up on mistakes. In actuality, Young and Blatche had better on/off point differentials than Butler and Jamison. As Gil said, their talent is apparent. I didn't like the coaching of either Ed last season, and it sounds like Gil didn't either.

And even if Gil's not really trying to critique coaching, it sounds like time away from the court has really allowed him to do a lot of studying. Paul and Williams have succeeded and it's nice to see Gil acknowledge that.

As for this comeback, I like that Gil toned down the blog and his media comments. He seems focused as he can be on getting his body right and his game back. Him acknowledging he's never going to be 100% but is strong and fast, is actually not a bad thing IMO. I think it's possible for him to get more with less. I've wanted Gil to play like Billups did for Detroit, and I see no reason besides health that Arenas can't do it.

I'm very encouraged about this season and most of the optimism is about Gil.
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#11 » by nate33 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:53 pm

Gilbert Arenas wrote:“You don't have to think so much. You just play. The offense we used to run was a thinking man's offense, and we had a lot of young players, so it didn't work. The first year we won [25] games, and then after the whole team being in it for a year, we won 45 games, but then we lose our 2-guard in Larry [Hughes]. You can't keep losing players, and then you get new guys in with that type of system. And every training camp, you gotta go back and teach.

"And we've got all these young players on the team, and your older guys in the offense get hurt, now you can't play young players like Nick and Andray and expect them to do great in that scheme. You see they have obvious talent, but they can't remember all the plays. Your I.Q. had to be great to understand the offense. Teams that run systems like that, Sacramento, New Jersey, our 49 win team, they were all older, experienced guys, but if you don't have experienced guys, it's a struggle to remember all the motion, all those cut-backs.”


More support for my biggest gripe about EJ's offense - It was so damn complicated that the team had to spend all their time working on it. This left less time for defense and it made it very hard to integrate young players or newly acquired vets.

I have no doubts that EJ's offense is very effective when run properly, the problem is that it takes a very unique set of circumstances for a team to be able to run it properly. You need continuity, lots of smart vets, and health. We have none of that.

I am soooo looking forward to a season with a new coach and a new system.
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#12 » by nate33 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:02 pm

Wow. Some real gold in this interview:

High praise for Haywood:
Gilbert Arenas wrote:“I'm the only realistic person in Washington, D.C. Everybody gets mad at me when I tell the truth. Brendan gets hurt and I said it was gonna be a rough start, and nobody wanted to hear it. Everybody said, You're throwing us under the bus. I ain't throwing nobody under the bus, I'm just saying it, and what happened? We started 1-10.


And for Stevenson:
Gilbert Arenas wrote:Having said all that about the changes at shooting guard, Arenas says he still has the utmost confidence in DeShawn Stevenson, who also is coming off of injury. The Wizards added to the backcourt with the additions of Mike Miller and Randy Foye, but Arenas expects Stevenson to beat out both Miller, Foye and Young to retain his starting job.

“The warrior's always gonna win,” Arenas declares. “If you can't beat out our best defensive guy, then you're not gonna play. Until they take it from DeShawn, they're not going to start. Doesn't matter that he's not a scoring shooting guard. He's our Derek Fisher, our Bruce Bowen, the guy who gets down and dirty. He's there as the equalizer. And I can promise you this, if any of those three are going after his job and have to match up with him, he's gonna battle them and they're not gonna look good trying to score on him.”
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#13 » by Rafael122 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:10 pm

I feel like crying after reading the stuff about his injury.
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#14 » by closg00 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:29 pm

The reads are damning of the Wizards organization.

1. EJ played Gilbert heavy minutes coming off the surgery (something SOME of us screamed bloody murder about)
2. Ernie Grunfeld allowed it ^^^

EJ, Ernie, the entire medical staff, ALL deserved to be fired. This NEVER would have happened with just about any other team in the NBA.
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#15 » by Kanyewest » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:51 pm

Dan Steinberg on the DC sports bog on Arenas/complaints on the doctors:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcspor ... .html#more

Damning. So just for fun, let's go back to some dialog that Gilbert posted on his own blog, between him and the team doctor, concerning one of his comebacks.

Doctor: "Yeah, well, you know, let's give this thing another week or so and you know, we'll check you back then?"

Gilbert: "Huh? Another week?! I was planning on playing today. My mind, my mental, is ready for right now!"

Doctor: "I don't think we should rush into this."

Gilbert: "Trust me, I'm mentally ready right now."

Doctor: "I don't think you're ready. We need to test it one more week."

Gilbert: "What's one more week going to do? I don't grow facial hair in a week! Nothing happens in a week. My knee isn't going to get that much stronger in a week. A week!"

Doctor: "There's going to be six games in nine days, I don't want that pounding to hurt you."

Gilbert: "Come on, this is not what I want to hear right now."

Can't believe the team rushed him back on the court like that.


Link to the Arenas's blog entry:
http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5700001611
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#16 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:56 pm

I think Steinberg's spot-on.

Like I said in the other thread, the same way Michael Jackson got a doctor to acquiesce to his wishes in prescribing deadly drugs, I think Gilbert insisted doctors allow him to come back playing too hard too soon. (But I still blame the doctors, EG, EJ even more than Gil).

By contrast, you sure didn't see Haywood come back from his wrist injury on anybody's timetable but his own.

Same thing with Etan and his injury. Thomas didn't come back as soon as was projected he might have. Had Gil had open heart surgery, he'd have rushed back IMO.
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#17 » by dandridge 10 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:41 pm

I don't know, based on what I have read about Gilbert's injury situation, the main reason Gilbert never fully recovered was because he did not follow the advice of the Wizards doctors and management in terms of off-season recovery, not because he played in a few games before he was ready. Gilbert ignored the advice of doctors and management and was out there running with parachutes, etc. on his own during the offseason when he should have been following the program set up for him. I agree that the Wizards medical staff have a lot to be desired, but I think Gil is looking for a scapegoat here.

I also find it surprising that Gil said that EJ didn't want him to be a leader. If my memory serves me correctly, EJ asked Gil to be a leader and Gil said he didn't want it....he said he doesn't believe half the things he says so why should other people. I find it hard to believe that EJ didn't want Gil to lead the team.

Hey, I love Gil, and I'm looking forward to him coming back. However, I think we should all know by now to take what Gil says with a little grain of salt. Half of what he says is to get a reaction and to provide entertainment.

As for his comeback, I don't care if he comes back playing like John Stockton or the old Gil scoring 30 pts a game with 6 dimes. However, he needs to improve on the defensive end if he really wants to make the All-league team and "lead" this team to more than a one and out playoff performance.
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#18 » by Michael Jordan » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:26 pm

nOBODY CAN guard me?

Talk about talking too much
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#19 » by Sid the Squid » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:31 pm

Michael Jordan wrote:nOBODY CAN guard me?

Talk about talking too much
With the no hand-check rules, nobody can gaurd a healthy Arenas, Ellis, Paul, Brooks , Rose ect...You have to rely on help D coming to protect the lane..I love the way the league is now. Help D is critical and PG's having to pass to the open man. Who woulda thunk? 5 on 5 basketball FTW :thumbsup:
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Re: The Arenas comeback thread 

Post#20 » by montestewart » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:34 pm

Michael Jordan wrote:nOBODY CAN guard me?

Talk about talking too much


Is that an Arenas quote? I didn't see it, but if it is, it's just another in a long line of similar comments from good/great scorers. Whether it's really true or whether they really believe it, many of the best scorers have projected a "nobody can guard me" persona. It's a little cocky, but it seems to work, even if I can clearly recall Gilbert handing the ball repeatedly to a very pesky T.J. Ford.

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