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Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri 27 @ 7pm

Moderators: WizStorm, LyricalRico, pineappleheadindc, miller31time, nate33

Post#121 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:21 pm by Chocolate City Jordanaire

dandridge 10 wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:First Blatche started proving me wrong and now Nick Young. Keep it up guys!

:clap:


Agreed. If they keep on playing like they did tonight, I'll be happy to eat my words about Blatche and Young. Regarding Gil, I actually thought he played decent while he was in. He was moving the ball and not forcing things for the most part. Glad Flip rested him in the 4th.


When Flip gives guys like Blatche, Young, McGee minutes--he proves all doubters wrong, and he also proves EG's drafting ability right. Talented dudes get experience. Coach and GM on the same page.

As for resting Gil, I hope Flip will continue to do that, and he'll give Butler rest when he forces things, too.

Gil wasn't horrible tonight. (Played okay in the first half, but Chalmers ate him up in the third quarter). Earl was just on fire out there and Flip rode him all the way to a win.
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Post#122 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:25 pm by dobrojim

Good point CCJ, they've beaten CLE before. I just don't like Queenie
so anytime they beat them is cause for major celebration. Finally
beating MIA is more of a relief. I like DWade. I just hated that
we couldn't beat him. Until now.

BTW- did Oberto get a DNP-CD? I think so. Flip coached a GREAT
game tonight. DS didn't play either. I think both those guys will
help us at times, but tonight was not the time.

If 3 things happen, we will be really scary, in spite of this
humbling start:
1. Get Miller back
2. See Gil back to something closer to 'takeover' Gil that'd be worth his $$$.
3. See Caron get out of his funk

If even 2 of those 3 happen without something really bad happening,
we'll be pretty good.
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Post#123 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:34 pm by Chocolate City Jordanaire

GilShammGil wrote:
gowiz999 wrote:benched. Boykins is everything that Gilbert isn't. Plays good, smart basketball and knows how to distribute the ball.


Well, lets not get carried away with the Gil hate... he actually had an efficient game tonight: 4-7 with 5 assists and only 2 turnovers. Its true that Gil didn't play very good D on Chalmers, but overall he wasn't really that bad. He just wasn't that assertive.

But still its great to have another option at the point for a game when Gil is not killing. Its also nice to have a coach flexible enough (and secure enough) to sit Gil when the game situation calls for it.


It's good to have you aboard, GilShammGil. I enjoy reading what you have to say!

Imagine this team WHEN Gil can just go back to being the very player that got him the contract. Lights out shooter from deep, elite scoring PG. I want him to say healthy, keep working his legs for strength and flexibility. Having Earl here to give Gil less minutes each night is really a blessing for the long haul.
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Post#124 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:47 pm by bullitz

+1 on the give Gil a break. Gilbert absolutely carried this team through many victories pre-injury. Two years is a long time to be away from a job and be expected to perform the same way before injury. It seems this board ALWAYS has to have a scape goat. Fire EJ he sucks. Great he's fired now get rid of AJ he sucks on defense. Oh wait his offense is better than his defense is bad get rid of Caron and Gil.

Are we not fans? Can we not enjoy a win for one night?? You can wake up at 8am and curse Gil and Caron for being the worst ball players on the planet.... until we beat the snot out of Charlotte in Gil's revenge game against the death dealer they call G. Wallace.
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Post#125 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:50 pm by Chocolate City Jordanaire

80sballboy wrote:For the most part, Arenas doesn't need to score a lot of Young is shooting it well and you have Jamison and Butler. The worrisome thing is that he can't shoot it right now. Hopefully he'll get it back.

But my favorite part of the night is that Blatche, Young and McGee were all big contributors. For Nick, I think it's all about tough love. Sure, he should have played over DeBrck, but you do need to know the plays and show some professionalism. Javale needs minutes obviously. If he ever gets another 10-15 pounds and learns the game, he can take over for Haywood, assuming he leaves.

Boykins is not the future, Foye is not a point guard, and Gil doesn't show a lot of leadership there, so what do we do with that position?


Ride little Earl for the rest of the season! Solid backup from all I can tell.

Foye is probably odd man out, but he looked okay before the ankle prob. I like Foye's shooting and he's Flip's guy, but I don't want him taking minutes from this Nick Young and he's not a true PG like Earl. Randy's in a contract year, so it might be only fair to trade him to get his numbers.

The Wizards still could use a defender at PG and/or one at SF who can score better than McGuire. They also have Javaris Crittenton under contract another year. They have Stevenson's contract and James' expiring to deal. Maybe Caron can go with Miller coming back in 5 weeks or.

(Battier, Lowry, Wilson Chandler, Hughes, Conley are just a few names the Wizards could seek if they move players.)


One thing that makes sense to me would be to trade for cap flexibility.
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Post#126 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:23 am by P'Oed

Could care less what Gilbert's numbers are if a W is involved. If he isn't taking completely contested, off-balance jumpers with 17 seconds left on the shot clock and completely killing the flow of the offense then that's more than okay with me. Give him a while before you count him out though...it's really gonna take a while for dude to get back to rare form. Until then....EARL THE MIDGET!


great win. Good to finally beat this pain in the ass division foe that repeatedly pisses on us.
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Post#127 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:34 am by newslowsad

Best win of the year so far. Really proud of Nick for bouncing back. Also, I know I've talked smack about Lil' Earl, but he looked real good tonight.
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Post#128 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:01 am by nate33

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I'm so happy now with Boykins in to relieve Gil and with Flip being a coach who will adapt on the fly. He's playing Blatche, Javale, Haywood and has moved AJ to SF. I'm thoroughly impressed because we've had years where Jamison was etched in stone at PF for 40 minutes.

This was one of the main reasons I felt EJ should have been fired. EJ had been around here so long that he got emotionally attached to the Big Three. He refused to ever bench the Big Three in crunch time no matter the circumstances. Flip, as an outsider, has no such attachments. The players are chess pieces to him. He'll mix and match as appropriate based solely on game circumstances.

I only caught portions of the game but I did see Young D-ing up on Wade. Very impressive. And I agree with those who are defending Gil. Yes, he didn't have a huge impact on this game, but at least he was efficient. It's a step in the right direction.

Arenas is figuring things out and I think he'll gradually get better as the season wears on. Hopefully by midseason, he'll have the offensive system down pat and he'll also regain enough confidence in his knee so he'll be willing to drive the lane with reckless abandon.

I'm more concerned about Butler. He is showing no progress at all at the offensive end. And he doesn't have Arenas' injury excuse.
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Post#129 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:05 am by mhd

I always knew Nick was the best d-man on the perimeter in terms of natural talent. He's got the length, quicks, hops, and youth on his side. Flip is giving him confidence by telling to shoot and be yourself. Hopefully N1 continues to grow.
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Post#130 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:22 am by cwhiteco

I have noticed with Earl comes in, the teams extends leads. Basically because he's pure point guard.
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Post#131 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:43 am by Chocolate City Jordanaire

Zerocious wrote:
dandridge 10 wrote:Agreed. If they keep on playing like they did tonight, I'll be happy to eat my words about Blatche and Young. Regarding Gil, I actually thought he played decent while he was in. He was moving the ball and not forcing things for the most part. Glad Flip rested him in the 4th.


i dont know. gil just looks weird out there. he used to be the number one in FT attempts. now it seems he doesn't even get into the paint. and his shot, WTF. i don't get it. it start to seem to me we are capable of winning without him. that makes a very expensive expendable.....



PERSPECTIVE: Chris Paul got hurt and the Hornets have won four of five without him. Darren Collison's been outstanding. They've been better without Paul. Paul is arguably the best PG in all of basketball.

It's a team sport and offensive and defensive philosophy and team chemistry factor in. Sometimes, there can be "too much talent" where everybody's accustomed to be getting shots. Or sometimes a star may look off open teammates they don't trust and take the shot themselves.

I think the Wizards have bigs who can ball now, who are not just named Haywood. Blatche can handle, dish, and score. McGee can score. Washington now needs for everybody to touch the ball and not for Gil to score a ton for them to win.

Just like New Orleans, the Wizards have a team that seems to play better right now without Gil or Caron stopping the ball. Jamison seems to get his shots off without turning it over and he boards well. He's helping the team a lot by putting pressure on opponents. Even with his bad shots, he's causing opponents to wonder how to stop him.

Gil and Caron have struggled with their new roles.

But the thing with Paul just shows it's all about team and not individuals. They're better with Collison's approach right now and with their new coaching staff.

Part of what's different for Gil and Caron is Flip and his system.
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Post#132 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:57 am by Ruzious

Count me in among those glad to be proven wrong about Flip being able to make use of Blatche and Young. While Young was inefficient with his shooting, I think his offensive work forced Wade to expend a lot of energy on D - slowing down his energy on O. In past games, Wade was a 2nd half ironman, partly because he didn't have to work on D. Blatche has to get 28 plus minutes a game. He gives the team important matchup offensive advantages, and defensively adds a huge advantage by being a 2nd shot-blocking threat - making him a great complement to Jamison. He and Jamison together at the forwards can be a great combo. Caron can still nail 20 footers, but I think a trade is in everyone's best interests. When Miller comes back, I don't see a role for Butler. Gil's got to get better - he was out-played badly in the 3rd quarter. He's just not playing smartly.
"Morey plays three dimensional chess. EFG plays tic-tac-toe and can't seem to get the hang of it."
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Post#133 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:11 am by WizarDynasty

Butler over estimates his ability to get to a spot before the defender. Butler. Arenas normally gets to a spot before the help defender and butler thinks he can do the same thing. What butler really needs to do is practice taking offin a different direction to force a helper defender to slides his feet. Butlers doesn't have the explosiveness in his legs to changed directions ....a second time just before contact with a help defender inside the paint...after his first explsove dribble. Mike miller doesn't even have the first explosive dribble that butler has. So we need butler to practice exploding a second time after his first explsove dribble from a pump fakes. Does carons legs have the explosiveness...nope.

Butler really has one major weakness. Mike miller can't attack the hole. Butler major weakness is that he can't stop his moment after he explodes to hole. He has got to practice exploding to hole and stopping his momentum and executing an acrobactic shot in practice. He basically has to improve his leg strength. The problem with mike miller is that he doesn't have any acrobactic ability while butler has a lil bit.

Butler needs to work on exploding in hid drive and changing directions just before taking off acrobactically to force his a help defender to not be able predict where to set up for a charge. I am surprised coaching hasn't worked with butler on this...otherwise I would be impressed with butlers play.
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Post#134 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:13 am by closg00

20MexicanosIn1Van wrote:I'm loving Flip's rotations this game, but I can't help thinking what took him so long. Isn't that what pre-season is for? Either way, you need to give Flip credit for trying something new whereas Tapscott and Eddie Jordan were too stubborn to change their strategies.


:clap: Amen to that, we finally have a coach who isn't fixated on playing vets, a coach who actually adapts and is flexible with his lineup.
Guys on a message board could do a better job managing the Wizards than Ernie Grunfeld.
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Post#135 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:31 am by WizarDynasty

Let's remember that boykins is a great change of pace guy not a starter. The reason boykins is successful was because miami didn't have enough time to game plan against a bench palyer. Their plays were designed to attack gilberts weaknesses on defense. U best believe that if ealr had started... Every play would have been designed to post earl in the post...force a double team and leaving a wide openlayer every play. The problem with that game plan is that the wiz can easily switch boykins out and put in their starter making that game plan useless.
Earls biggest weakness is that he can be easily posted up which is why he is a bench player. Saunders left boykins in because chalmers doesn't have isopost up skills and his dribbling skills are weak for a point guard and boykins constantly exposed where as gil doesn't have the defensive quickness to expose it. But had boykins started miami entire game plan would have been to force double teams every play and we would have to design a special defense just to protect earl.
Earl is a weapon coming off the bench because teams don't have the time to game plan against a bench player who may not even paly a lot of minutes.
Gilberts defense was good but he had to expend a ton of energy on defense and it wore out his legs on offense. Boykins offensive iq and his high knowledge of how to strategically attack defensive formations along with his ability play lightening fast but ALSO under control is what makes him great as long as he isn't a starter. His ability to beat his man off the dribble and force help defenders to leave their man... The difference is that his ball handling and ability to stop and reset after driving is. Etter than gils. His ability to direct and offense and strategically attack to open up a team mate and guiding the team mate to the spot he needs to be in before boykins starts his attack shows that his offense iq is higher. But gil ability to score from anywhere and his ability carry his team through offensive slumps is what makes him a super star. Boykins weakness in the post is why he is always best to come off the bench otherwise teams can tee off against in the post on every play and we would have to sit him down after he got posted up seven times straight and scored on.
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Post#136 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:43 am by Zerocious

WizarDynasty wrote:Butler over estimates his ability to get to a spot before the defender. Butler. Arenas normally gets to a spot before the help defender and butler thinks he can do the same thing. What butler really needs to do is practice taking offin a different direction to force a helper defender to slides his feet. Butlers doesn't have the explosiveness in his legs to changed directions ....a second time just before contact with a help defender inside the paint...after his first explsove dribble. Mike miller doesn't even have the first explosive dribble that butler has. So we need butler to practice exploding a second time after his first explsove dribble from a pump fakes. Does carons legs have the explosiveness...nope.

Butler really has one major weakness. Mike miller can't attack the hole. Butler major weakness is that he can't stop his moment after he explodes to hole. He has got to practice exploding to hole and stopping his momentum and executing an acrobactic shot in practice. He basically has to improve his leg strength. The problem with mike miller is that he doesn't have any acrobactic ability while butler has a lil bit.

Butler needs to work on exploding in hid drive and changing directions just before taking off acrobactically to force his a help defender to not be able predict where to set up for a charge. I am surprised coaching hasn't worked with butler on this...otherwise I would be impressed with butlers play.


to many offensive fouls on something that could be an easy bucket perhaps game changer. all he has to do is explode and go straight up for a kiss of the glass rather than the one handed duoble pump palming the ball while floating into a defense player inside the circle and getting called for a offnsive. just stop 'n pop straight up, or coast around as WD said, get the points, maybe even and one and avoid the offensive foul. i'm sure he can make that shot from three feet away right of the glass.....
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Post#137 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:04 am by cedric76

so how does Nick young look ?
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Post#138 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:10 am by dobrojim

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
dobrojim wrote:Great W

N1, my man. MMillions may have a hard time getting his starting
job back. N1 may not rebound like MM but he defends like a
demon.

Earl Boykins, what can you say. He turned the tide back
when MIA looked like they were going to break our
hearts, again.

Great bench play. Nice coaching. Great defense
as a team.

Oh, and Jamison did his usual thing.

Tomorrow should be interesting. CHA just beat CLE.


Tomorrow will be a great statement game, jim.

Gil should be fresh and rested. Andray, Nick, Earl, Javale, and, of course AJ should all be confident. Flip is on fire as a coach, having called on Nick and Javale and put down DeShawn and Fab. The biggest thing is now they aren't forcing things through Caron and Gil all game. They can win without either player.

So, against Charlotte the Wizards will meet a team with a lot of great swing players. Gerald Wallace, Boris Diaw, and Jackson. To me, the Wizards have an advantage inside. Chandler won't score much and Mohammed is not the most athletic.

Tomorrow would be a great time to see Gil play well and Nick play well, and for Caron and Antawn not to force things. Jamison won't dominate Charlotte, most likely.

We'll see, but I think the Wizards will win, if not convincingly.


The Wizards should have an advantage with their bigs.
CHA's hopes will probably ride with Wallace and Jackson.
Jamison seems to find a way to get it done against a
variety of different opp.

Wiz HAVE to find a way to get it done at home against
a div rival and a team just ahead of them in the standings
which will flipflop with a Wiz win. We have a bunch of
important games against conf opp coming up and need
to stay on this roll since TOR (2 games), MIL and CHA
are all ahead of us right now.

Missing MM hurts but Boykins has really impressed.
NBA players just are not used to playing against guys
that small. It's a great option for us to have, as long
as Flip uses him correctly and so far he's been inspired
as far as that goes.
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Post#139 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:20 am by Ruzious

nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I'm so happy now with Boykins in to relieve Gil and with Flip being a coach who will adapt on the fly. He's playing Blatche, Javale, Haywood and has moved AJ to SF. I'm thoroughly impressed because we've had years where Jamison was etched in stone at PF for 40 minutes.

This was one of the main reasons I felt EJ should have been fired. EJ had been around here so long that he got emotionally attached to the Big Three. He refused to ever bench the Big Three in crunch time no matter the circumstances. Flip, as an outsider, has no such attachments. The players are chess pieces to him. He'll mix and match as appropriate based solely on game circumstances.

That's not an entirely fair criticism of EJ. The roster he had is not as good as what the Wiz have this season. Blatche and Javale are far far better players now than they were at the beginning of last season. He was in no position to do anything to Jamison's or Butler's roles. The one fair criticism is his reluctant use of Haywood - which might have changed. Whether or not the team is better off with Flip as the coach - I don't know, but it's a safe bet that Gil would be performing better, and the team's record would be better.
"Morey plays three dimensional chess. EFG plays tic-tac-toe and can't seem to get the hang of it."
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Post#140 Re: Official Game thread. Wiz vs Heat || Fri
Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:22 am by dobrojim

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Zerocious wrote:
dandridge 10 wrote:Agreed. If they keep on playing like they did tonight, I'll be happy to eat my words about Blatche and Young. Regarding Gil, I actually thought he played decent while he was in. He was moving the ball and not forcing things for the most part. Glad Flip rested him in the 4th.


i dont know. gil just looks weird out there. he used to be the number one in FT attempts. now it seems he doesn't even get into the paint. and his shot, WTF. i don't get it. it start to seem to me we are capable of winning without him. that makes a very expensive expendable.....



PERSPECTIVE: Chris Paul got hurt and the Hornets have won four of five without him. Darren Collison's been outstanding. They've been better without Paul. Paul is arguably the best PG in all of basketball.

It's a team sport and offensive and defensive philosophy and team chemistry factor in. Sometimes, there can be "too much talent" where everybody's accustomed to be getting shots. Or sometimes a star may look off open teammates they don't trust and take the shot themselves.

I think the Wizards have bigs who can ball now, who are not just named Haywood. Blatche can handle, dish, and score. McGee can score. Washington now needs for everybody to touch the ball and not for Gil to score a ton for them to win.

Just like New Orleans, the Wizards have a team that seems to play better right now without Gil or Caron stopping the ball. Jamison seems to get his shots off without turning it over and he boards well. He's helping the team a lot by putting pressure on opponents. Even with his bad shots, he's causing opponents to wonder how to stop him.

Gil and Caron have struggled with their new roles.

But the thing with Paul just shows it's all about team and not individuals. They're better with Collison's approach right now and with their new coaching staff.

Part of what's different for Gil and Caron is Flip and his system.


I'm not quite as concerned about Caron as Nate is. He's a warrior
and smart enough to work it out.

Jamison doesn't turn it over 'cause the balls up at the basket almost
as soon as he touches it. He's always been a low TO guy for that reason.
That being true, the warning that someone posted about what happens
when AJ has a cold streak is a cause for concern. Hopefully depth and
coaching will allow us to get past that OK.

My fav play of the game, 7DD going behind his back, drawing 2 (or 3)
defenders going to the rim and dissing to Wood for the stuff. The ESPN
guys went nuts over a 6-11 guy making that play. It was spectacular.
That said, it's the steadiness and nitty-gritty that has been the best
part about 7DD's game this year. Remarkable progress finally. His
contract is a huge bonus for us.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity
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