Official Game thread. Wiz vs Bobcats || Sat 28 @ 7pm

[dobrojim]

It's probably been said, but Charlotte is ranked first in the NBA in defensive efficiency. Not hard to see why -- they seemed to easily get us to do whatever they wanted to. I think they're also last in pace. Congrats, Larry Brown, for again creating the least entertaining brand of effective basketball out there.

One adjustment I would have liked to see from Flip was to pick up full court man to man in an effort to force the tempo. If nothing else, we could have forced their better players to tire and exploited some of our depth. But no, we just played right into their hands all game.

Gilbert looks completely lost. Caron too.

Maybe it's high time some of our resident haters give Eddie Jordan the credit he deserves for the offensive production he was able to milk out of this roster. The "weave and heave" moniker is just an ignorant slogan, when in reality opposing coaches and players would always talk about how hard an offense it was to defend. Caron and to a lesser extent Gil look like complete square pegs in this new system. Hopefully that improves with time.

Any hopes of a Caron for Gerald Wallace swap have to be gone after last night when Wallace looked like twice the player Caron is.

Oh well....

my take from being there as a biased Wiz fan

The stripes acted like the rep of the cats meant they should get every call.

Gil shot ZERO FTs and they had almost 2x our total. Yes they are a good to
very good defensive team, but their excrement stinks just like everyone else's.
I think the zebras are in Gil's head and when he does drive, good things are not happening
often enough to reinforce that habit. And his shot is not falling (duh).

But we just sucked. AJ with ZERO rebounds! I'll go out on a limb and predict
that we go winless in games in which AJ/Gil play and get 0 rebs(AJ) and 0 FTs
(Gil).

positives - Butler found his shot. 7DD continued to play decently. McGee got
more quality time. N1 didn't do what he did the last 2, but wasn't awful.
We missed way too many make-able shots. I thought for a while they might
not get 60 points in the game. Truly ugly.

I think Flip played DS when N1 picked up the 2 quick ones (one of which iirc
was tickytack) due to SJ's size. The other backcourt guys are not big enough
to defend him. Maybe Flip couda gone with DMac in that situation but it's
not a clear cut call.

BTW - Wallace just got the better of Queenie the night before. He's a player
for sure. He's had better games than last night against us.

[dobrojim]

It's probably been said, but Charlotte is ranked first in the NBA in defensive efficiency. Not hard to see why -- they seemed to easily get us to do whatever they wanted to. I think they're also last in pace. Congrats, Larry Brown, for again creating the least entertaining brand of effective basketball out there.

One adjustment I would have liked to see from Flip was to pick up full court man to man in an effort to force the tempo. If nothing else, we could have forced their better players to tire and exploited some of our depth. But no, we just played right into their hands all game.

Gilbert looks completely lost. Caron too.

Maybe it's high time some of our resident haters give Eddie Jordan the credit he deserves for the offensive production he was able to milk out of this roster. The "weave and heave" moniker is just an ignorant slogan, when in reality opposing coaches and players would always talk about how hard an offense it was to defend. Caron and to a lesser extent Gil look like complete square pegs in this new system. Hopefully that improves with time.

Any hopes of a Caron for Gerald Wallace swap have to be gone after last night when Wallace looked like twice the player Caron is.

Oh well....

You call for an EJ hater If EJ haters were to list his offenses while coach of the Wizards, his offense would be last on the list. The hate was for the reasons CCJ stated.

And he was just getting warmed up.

[DCZards]

Maybe it's high time some of our resident haters give Eddie Jordan the credit he deserves for the offensive production he was able to milk out of this roster. The "weave and heave" moniker is just an ignorant slogan, when in reality opposing coaches and players would always talk about how hard an offense it was to defend. Caron and to a lesser extent Gil look like complete square pegs in this new system. Hopefully that improves with time.

You had to go there didn't you fish. Yes, EJ had his shortcomings (many of them) but this team's current weaknesses--lack of chemistry on and off the court and no consistency on offense--were areas in which EJ's teams excelled.

Psst...here's a little secret...but please don't tell the EJ-haters because they'll kill me for saying it: You give EJ the depth, talent and relative good health that the Wizards have this season and we're talking about being more like 10-5 rather than 5-10.

[fishercob]

Maybe it's high time some of our resident haters give Eddie Jordan the credit he deserves for the offensive production he was able to milk out of this roster. The "weave and heave" moniker is just an ignorant slogan, when in reality opposing coaches and players would always talk about how hard an offense it was to defend. Caron and to a lesser extent Gil look like complete square pegs in this new system. Hopefully that improves with time.

You had to go there didn't you fish. Yes, EJ had his shortcomings (many of them) but this team's current weaknesses--lack of chemistry on and off the court and no consistency on offense--were areas in which EJ's teams excelled.

Psst...here's a little secret...but please don't tell the EJ-haters because they'll kill me for saying it: You give EJ the depth, talent and relative good health that the Wizards have this season and we're talking about being more like 10-5 rather than 5-10.

DCZ, while I agree with your agreement ( ) with my point on EJ's strengths -- and you're right to point out the chemistry/locker room angle as well -- I don't at all buy that we'd be much better in the W/L department with EJ has coach. And I defended the guy for a long time. The defense would suck, Blatche wouldn't be what he's been, guys wouldn't be used right, etc.

I will say that let's judge EJ in Philly and Flip in DC after 80 or so games, not 15.

[Benjammin]

Maybe it's high time some of our resident haters give Eddie Jordan the credit he deserves for the offensive production he was able to milk out of this roster. The "weave and heave" moniker is just an ignorant slogan, when in reality opposing coaches and players would always talk about how hard an offense it was to defend. Caron and to a lesser extent Gil look like complete square pegs in this new system. Hopefully that improves with time.

You had to go there didn't you fish. Yes, EJ had his shortcomings (many of them) but this team's current weaknesses--lack of chemistry on and off the court and no consistency on offense--were areas in which EJ's teams excelled.

Psst...here's a little secret...but please don't tell the EJ-haters because they'll kill me for saying it: You give EJ the depth, talent and relative good health that the Wizards have this season and we're talking about being more like 10-5 rather than 5-10.

How many years did EJ have to implement his system? I would give Flip more than 15 games before declaring his offense a failure. EJ also had a healthy, all guns loaded Hibachi. That's not what we're seeing right now, and sadly may never see, but hopefully we will again. I am confused by the relative good health comment as well. Jamison was out for a large chunk of the beginning of the season. Miller has battled injuries and is now out 3-6 weeks. Foye missed a few games and still does not look all the way back. Caron has had some nagging injuries. Gil, who knows if he's struggling physically, mentally, or both.

EJ is not as bad as the negative hyperbole suggests (which I have used as well). But he's at best an average NBA coach which makes the loyalty to him all the more curious unless one is focused on him being a native son who's a nice guy and who is good with the media.

[ErikChowbay023]

Flip Saunders took responsibility for the loss, claiming that he must not be doing something right if his team follows up a brilliant performance in Miami with an absolute stinker. Saunders played all 12 players on his roster, trying odd combinations, to see what would work. Nothing did. In the third quarter, Saunders had a lineup that featured Earl Boykins, Fabricio Oberto, Dominic McGuire, Caron Butler and Andray Blatche -- just the group he surely envisioned having to call on to bail out the team when it fell behind by 22 points in the third period.

"I wasn't good tonight, because when you fall behind like that, you start searching and you're trying to throw all people out there on the floor. We couldn't get anything to sustain," Saunders said. "You can't mess with the basketball gods. If you don't play hard it gets you in the end."

But Saunders really had a tough night finding anyone to give him anything. How many more nights can he expect Antawn Jamison to get zero rebounds? How many more nights can he expect Arenas to attempt zero free throws? Saunders probably won't have to worry about Jamison, but for the first time this season, he expressed some concern over Arenas, who has started to regress of late. Arenas finished with just six points and six assists and cannot figure which direction he wants to go right now -- or if he's capable of going in any direction with confidence. He's scored just 15 total points his past two games.

"What do you expect me to do? Go out there and score 30?" Arenas asked after going just 3 of 11 from the floor. "I'm not going to go out there and try to score 30 when we have a lot of offensive players here. I'll take the shots I feel are sufficient for me. Other than that, the offensive load's on everybody else."

Saunders said after the game that he hasn't held back Arenas at time this season and blamed fatigue from playing heavy minutes early in the season for Arenas's recent slump. has urged him to be aggressive, something that Arenas confirmed.

"He keeps telling me to be aggressive, but I don't know. I haven't been that guy in two years," Arenas said. "So I'm just trying to find my way that I'm comfortable again and getting the trust of the team. Right now, I don't know if these guys trust me to take 10 straight shots. I don't know if I trust myself to take 10 straight shots. So for now I just pick my spots while Nick comes along, while Caron [Butler] gets his mojo back and while waiting for Twan."


Its no longer is he able do it...its either all in his head, or he is choosing not to do it...He might be trying to prove to them that they cant win without him scoring 30 but I dont think its the latter, it more like the first one and he is gonna need to jump out of this soon..

[omegatronic3]

"He keeps telling me to be aggressive, but I don't know. I haven't been that guy in two years," Arenas said. "So I'm just trying to find my way that I'm comfortable again and getting the trust of the team. Right now, I don't know if these guys trust me to take 10 straight shots. I don't know if I trust myself to take 10 straight shots. So for now I just pick my spots while Nick comes along, while Caron [Butler] gets his mojo back and while waiting for Twan."

oh jeez hes lost it....he says he's not gonna try to score 30...well guess what thats what we singed your azz for. He says he hasnt been that guy in two years...if Arenas isnt scoring 30 hes pretty much useless cos he cant defend and he has the highest turnovers in the NBA. Basically he's tryng to be Jason Kid only he doesnt have the pure pg skils. He obviously feeles he doesnt have it any more..but he better get his shooting back at least.

ain this game we just didnt have enery..maybr partly due to abes funeral and playing the nigh before.

DMac played prett wel IMO and should get more pt. Mcgee and Blache had some great blocks.
Butler at least is starting to show a little but he had some pretty bad sequences like a blown layup off a great save from Blache.

Arenas need to learn some things from cassell...he had no athleticism but still got it done

[Silvie Lysandra]

STEP ONE: TRADE FOR KIRK HINRICH
STEP TWO: MOVE GILBERT ARENAS TO SHOOTING GUARD AND TELL HIM THAT HE IS THE GO TO SCORER FOR THE WASHINGTON WIZARDS
STEP THREE: WIN

We need to END the Gilbert Arenas as a "traditional PG" experiment right here and right now. It is so disrupting his rhythm that he literally does not know who he is on the court. If Flip continues to try to turn Gilbert Arenas into a better scoring Chauncey Billups, he should be fired on the spot. That is not Gilbert Arenas's game. That will never be his game. Let Gilbert play his game the way he needs to play it (and for all of EJ's faults, he instinctively got that, though he would always experiment with turning Gil into an all-around guard in the beginning of the season, which contributed to our slow starts), and his production will improve.

Let scoring be Arenas's primary focus. Let passing be something he does in the right situation. Don't force him to give maximal effort on defense - stars do not need to be pressing their man 90 feet every play, he just needs to have the fundamentals down, be in right position and stay within the scheme.

Psst...here's a little secret...but please don't tell the EJ-haters because they'll kill me for saying it: You give EJ the depth, talent and relative good health that the Wizards have this season and we're talking about being more like 10-5 rather than 5-10.

You mean like how he's 10-5 this season with the depth, talent, and relative good health he has with Philly? Oh wait.

Still, like I said, EJ realized like Flip has not that Gil is just not a traditional point guard, so it's a good thing his Princeton just happened to be made for combo guards and combo forwards. The problem with EJ was rotations, player development, and defensive schemes. Flip's rotations are better, his staff is better, his development is better, and his schemes are better. He just needs to treat Gilbert like a lead scorer.

[LyricalRico]

"He keeps telling me to be aggressive, but I don't know. I haven't been that guy in two years," Arenas said. "So I'm just trying to find my way that I'm comfortable again and getting the trust of the team. Right now, I don't know if these guys trust me to take 10 straight shots. I don't know if I trust myself to take 10 straight shots. So for now I just pick my spots while Nick comes along, while Caron [Butler] gets his mojo back and while waiting for Twan."

oh jeez hes lost it....he says he's not gonna try to score 30...well guess what thats what we singed your azz for. He says he hasnt been that guy in two years...if Arenas isnt scoring 30 hes pretty much useless cos he cant defend and he has the highest turnovers in the NBA. Basically he's tryng to be Jason Kid only he doesnt have the pure pg skils. He obviously feeles he doesnt have it any more..but he better get his shooting back at least.

That was my reaction as well. This guy is now the world's highest paid mental patient.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Maybe it's high time some of our resident haters give Eddie Jordan the credit he deserves for the offensive production he was able to milk out of this roster. The "weave and heave" moniker is just an ignorant slogan, when in reality opposing coaches and players would always talk about how hard an offense it was to defend. Caron and to a lesser extent Gil look like complete square pegs in this new system. Hopefully that improves with time.

You had to go there didn't you fish. Yes, EJ had his shortcomings (many of them) but this team's current weaknesses--lack of chemistry on and off the court and no consistency on offense--were areas in which EJ's teams excelled.

+1

Psst...here's a little secret...but please don't tell the EJ-haters because they'll kill me for saying it: You give EJ the depth, talent and relative good health that the Wizards have this season and we're talking about being more like 10-5 rather than 5-10.

I don't know about 10-5, but they'd better than 5-10. MIght be 10-5. I can't really disagree.

That stretch of games the Wizards kept scoring around 90 and losing by more than 10 NEVER would have happened under EJ. I kept wondering why Flip had the short bench with no Young or McGee. Guys were really tight offensively. DCZards, the reason I'm not so sure is EJ tended to get off to slow starts, too. OTOH, Flip has shown me flexibility the past 3 games that I NEVER saw with EJ. I currently believe Flip's the better coach, but I feel pretty certaing EJ would have had this team with a better record. (Flip better show me something the next 10 games).

My comments about the two coaches is that EJ was better offensively and Flip is better defensively. If you could morph the two into one coach that coach would be an Adelman, Popvich, Brown, Phil Jackson kind of coach.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

"He keeps telling me to be aggressive, but I don't know. I haven't been that guy in two years," Arenas said. "So I'm just trying to find my way that I'm comfortable again and getting the trust of the team. Right now, I don't know if these guys trust me to take 10 straight shots. I don't know if I trust myself to take 10 straight shots. So for now I just pick my spots while Nick comes along, while Caron [Butler] gets his mojo back and while waiting for Twan."

oh jeez hes lost it....he says he's not gonna try to score 30...well guess what thats what we singed your azz for. He says he hasnt been that guy in two years...if Arenas isnt scoring 30 hes pretty much useless cos he cant defend and he has the highest turnovers in the NBA. Basically he's tryng to be Jason Kid only he doesnt have the pure pg skils. He obviously feeles he doesnt have it any more..but he better get his shooting back at least.

That was my reaction as well. This guy is now the world's highest paid mental patient.

I don't believe people choose to become mentally unbalanced. I do know that mental illness really doesn't discriminate among socioeconomic or occupational demographics. The people who are affected come in all shapes and sizes. Societal stigmas still tend to blame the victim for their own "foolish" or "weak" ways. Often, the victims can lack a lot of insight into their own being "out of touch". They may be the last to know.

What often happens is when folks don't act right and they don't perform well on their jobs, or they meltdown, they lose status and their relationships suffer. If they're pro athletes they get to have all their drama unfold among the public. The public, IMO, is very quick to judge but hardly equipped to understand or empathize.

Lyrical, if what you say is true about Gil, I think the pragmatic approach would be to get him the world's best support system and treatment team. Who really knows what's bothering the man. Does he even know what's bothering him? it's not just about jump shots dropping and Wizards wins. Tim Grover hooked him up physically. Now, I think he needs--if he's willing to partake in--a little bit of a mental makeover if you will. Life's tough, and I can think of a BUNCH of things that could be bothering Gil.

He's a human being.

[DCZards]

How many years did EJ have to implement his system? I would give Flip more than 15 games before declaring his offense a failure. EJ also had a healthy, all guns loaded Hibachi. That's not what we're seeing right now, and sadly may never see, but hopefully we will again.

Trust me, I'm not hating on Flip. I'm a Wizards' fan first and foremost so it matters not to me who's at the helm or who's on the court, I'm rooting as hard as hell for the Zards and their coach. In fact, I'm willing to give Flip a lot more than 15 (or 20) games to implement his offense and right the ship.

BTW, the last time EJ had "a healthy, all guns loaded Hibachi" the Zards were first in the east and EJ was coaching an all-star team that included 2 or 3 Zards. Just in case you forgot.

[LyricalRico]

Lyrical, if what you say is true about Gil, I think the pragmatic approach would be to get him the world's best support system and treatment team. Who really knows what's bothering the man. Does he even know what's bothering him? it's not just about jump shots dropping and Wizards wins. Tim Grover hooked him up physically. Now, I think he needs--if he's willing to partake in--a little bit of a mental makeover if you will. Life's tough, and I can think of a BUNCH of things that could be bothering Gil.

That's the thing - there's no reason to think he will. He's always "self-medicated" using basketball. Now his refuge is becoming the center of his problems. The only thing he can do now is actually confront his issues and grow up. From what I know of him, he's not going to do that.

Look, we all knew the guy was ****** up from the stuff he said/did in GS and in his first few years here, plus what we learned about his past. In fact, I remember posting a few years back that Gil definitely needed mental and emotional help but I hoped he didn't get it during his playing career because his demons made him the assassin he was. Now that he's not that same assassin anymore, his issues have gone from being his strength to being his kryptonite.

[WizarDynasty]

I think what we saw was a larry brown Third year teams that is well coached at attacking defenses. Our defense doesn't have the intricate details to handle the adjustments from Larry Brown's offense. Plain and simple. Flip has a ways to go in terms of coaching up this team to contain a complex offense like Larry Brown's. Oberto seems to be the only one well coached and instinctually know how to stop Larry Brown's offense based on his high level defensive training from the Spurs. I believe Oberto's team defensive IQ is probably even higher than Coach Saunders.
You can infer this based on Chandler running through Oberto's to get oberto off of him so that he can run Brown's Sets. Oberto preventing Chandler from making his pre-determined movement was disrupting hte timing of Brown's offense and Brown commanded chandler to run through oberto and get called for a charging foul. Oberto's training from San Antonio on how to stop Larry Brown. Larry Brown has been with this team for two season now so they are pretty welled oiled at attacking basics defenses like Flips.
Only time will tell if this team has the defensive Iq to stop larry Brown's complex attack reaction on offense.

[doclinkin]

I think what we saw was a larry brown Third year teams that is well coached at attacking defenses.

I'd agree with you, but reverse it. Give Larry Brown a few years with a team and he will damn sure find a way to coach defense. He's seen Flip's system for many years and now has athletic and active defensive personnel who can put into play his gameplans and adjustments. Offensively, eh, they're willing at least to give it a go. But on defense they'll continue to be a pain in the ass from here on out.

[fishercob]

It's probably been said, but Charlotte is ranked first in the NBA in defensive efficiency. Not hard to see why -- they seemed to easily get us to do whatever they wanted to. I think they're also last in pace. Congrats, Larry Brown, for again creating the least entertaining brand of effective basketball out there.

One adjustment I would have liked to see from Flip was to pick up full court man to man in an effort to force the tempo. If nothing else, we could have forced their better players to tire and exploited some of our depth. But no, we just played right into their hands all game.

Gilbert looks completely lost. Caron too.

Maybe it's high time some of our resident haters give Eddie Jordan the credit he deserves for the offensive production he was able to milk out of this roster. The "weave and heave" moniker is just an ignorant slogan, when in reality opposing coaches and players would always talk about how hard an offense it was to defend. Caron and to a lesser extent Gil look like complete square pegs in this new system. Hopefully that improves with time.

Any hopes of a Caron for Gerald Wallace swap have to be gone after last night when Wallace looked like twice the player Caron is.

Oh well....

my take from being there as a biased Wiz fan

The stripes acted like the rep of the cats meant they should get every call.

Gil shot ZERO FTs and they had almost 2x our total. Yes they are a good to
very good defensive team, but their excrement stinks just like everyone else's.
I think the zebras are in Gil's head and when he does drive, good things are not happening
often enough to reinforce that habit. And his shot is not falling (duh).

It's true. Charlotte seemed to employ the strategy of holding every possession, knowing full well that the refs couldn't call them all. As is often the case, the more aggressive and athletic team got more calls.

[dobrojim]

I think what we saw was a larry brown Third year teams that is well coached at attacking defenses.

I'd agree with you, but reverse it. Give Larry Brown a few years with a team and he will damn sure find a way to coach defense. He's seen Flip's system for many years and now has athletic and active defensive personnel who can put into play his gameplans and adjustments. Offensively, eh, they're willing at least to give it a go. But on defense they'll continue to be a pain in the ass from here on out.

This was my thinking as well. Flip a very solid coach.
Larry Brown is an alltime great coach, while he lasts anyway,
but that's another story.

CHA's D really messed us up (along with the refs) and turned the whole team,
not just Gil, into a mental case. Hopefully TOR's
D will be therapeutic for us. But that remains to be seen.

[REDardWIZskin]

looking at the bobcats vs caletic halftime boxscore. The celtics are killing the bobcats with the only thing that would have given us a chance against the bobcats. 3pt shooting and Interior strength. Perkins with 15 and Allen 4-5 from three