Know what? F... all y'all. Caron Butler Appreciation Thread

[Hoopalotta]

Yeah, it's a fair point that the Toronto game is not on Butler. But the bottom line is that the new owner, best to my understanding, did not sign off on going with this team for $70 some odd million. So unless the guys start gelling soon - like, real soon - the whole thing could be getting blowd'ed up. It's also hard to believe that Ted goes with this team in 2011 with four $10 million dollar men with the Woodsman re-upping.

And I mean, it's also hard to look at the quotes from Flip or Gil or the Indianapolis fruit tray and think that anything is, has been or will be clicking. The team simply has terrible chemistry and rarely runs plays.

Now, it might not really be Butler's fault, sure, but it's hard to argue that shipping Butler out for some kind of system fit/salary relief/prospects wouldn't help alleviate the pressure a bit when Miller comes back. Less is more sometimes. The argument that Butler's attacking style will help in the playoffs is reasonable, 'cept'n that there ain't a'gonna be no playoffs as our wayward caravel teeters into the drink and pressure from above warms up the blast furnace.

Squirrel's been great, but I think we should look into getting a more robust sort of penetrating point guard to share the load with Gil and let Butler go somewhere that he fits better and can take part in plays that are a better suited to his strenghts. Failing that, draft picks, salary relief and a big fat roster opening for a bit of the old South Dakota shake would do.

I believe all parties would be pleased as punch upon the commencement of such an actuality, though I conceed that Butler can still play.

[doclinkin]

Eh. I actually saw a number of good signs out there this game. There were more possessions this game where the ball was skipping around from player to player, resulting in a better shot, a FG.

The wheels sorta came off towards the end, but watching Gilbert start to hit the outside shot, and Caron get to the FT line etc. if Jamison had anything like his normal game then this game is a pullaway win.

Wiz fans tend to get all bipolar and jittery, ricocheting between irrational exuberance and dismal despair, but this is a squad that, once the kinks are ironed out, has the potential to go on a long streak of win. The squad has shown flashes, they just haven't figured out their endgame yet, haven't decided who is the go-to guy when the chips are down. Survey says: Gilbert, but he's been ducking the label since he knows he's not back yet.

Games like this though suggest he's not as far as he was. If he can hit that outside shot great, better yet if he has realized the refs won't bail him out then he'll resolve to go for the finish irrespective of the contact. That's a lesson the refs have been trying to teach him even back when he was 100%. DWade gets the benefit of the doubt because if he misses it's unusual, thus it must have been a serious foul. Gilbert has made it clear in the past that sometimes he's jsut looking for the whistle. Fine to think, not good to admit out loud. Refs talk. At a certain point they'll start robbing you of righteous calls simply because they don't like to be gamed.

Caron's 5 dimes are evidence that he's starting to get that comfort zone in the scheme and with the team. Yeah he missed a couple chippies. True. He lacks the mass he used to have and it is affecting his shot. Not a permanent condition, and fact is it looks like he's thickening back up building more muscle not gut, interesting to see. And granted there will be another adjustment period when Mike Miller returns, could be that the team struggles then too, could be then any recovery is too late. But I doubt it, if you look around the bEastly conference. Al but the top 4 are pretty subpar. And thing is, I'd far rather take Caron taking and hitting 7 FT's while missing a few shots than have to beg Mike Miller to actually try a shot now and again.

As for blowing the squad up. I doubt Teddy makes major moves any time soon. He'll read and evaluate, then make smart moves not impulsive ones. Shoot, he still has to negotiate and effect the purchase of the squad. Lawyers have to scrutinize, bankers have to bank. There's an agreement in principle to purchase the team, or at least he has right of first purchase, but a value for the team has to be set. Etc. These things take time.

No rush to burn up the squad will be done by end of season. Teddy's a careful fellow, this is his dream job. He can afford to be patient, even lose a smidgen of money in transition. He's still got net worth upwards of a Billion apparently. Billion. You can lose 100 mil and still have 900 million left. That's how mathematics works I'm told. I suspect any moves made will be on Ernie's initiative and with Flip's imprimatur. That might lose us a surplus wing player, perhaps, but only on a definite upgrade. Caron right now is signed for next year, relatively cheap. Mike Million's expiring deal is in many ways a better trade asset, for all that he fits well with the team... when healthy... which he hasn't been for a few years.

[Ruzious]

That 7 foul shots and 5/0 A/O resonated within the body Bullet. There's no doot (as they say in Tronto) that Butler can still play at a very high level - especially with his improved positional defense - and he's always had quick hands. The "doubt" I had was he and Miller playing together - particularly defensively - which we still haven't seen much of. But I'm feeling much more confident aboot it. Almost everyone says - Oh, Miller is a horrible defender. But watching him - while he can get picked off and look bad - like every single other wingman in the game - his length really does give him a useful advantage, and he plays hard. Butler is fairly effective. Are good 2's (which almost every team has) going to kill us? I don't know - but I want to see if our size/length advantage cancells out the quickness disadvantage in the team defense. Offensively, they should be a very good combo - keeping in mind that the Wiz won't fully hit their stride till around midseason. Gill is still pacing himself. He understands that he NEEDS to finish the season strong - your last 20 games are worth far more than your first 20.

[montestewart]

On the big screen, Miller described himself (in response to a "yoga or pilates" question) as the least flexible person, and elsewhere he called himself unathletic. Self deprecation aside, his size, smarts, and effort make him a pretty decent if sometimes slow defender.

I'm still waiting to see if his shot has come back, but have backed off for now from my "trade Butler for a defender" position. I don't know whether Butler's found some internal motivation or Saunders' system and coaching has brought it out of him, but Butler on defense is a different player, with generally better court vision and anticipation. Maybe this is the result of kicking the Dew.

The wild card to me is Nick Young, who looks more alert on D (maybe it's a confidence thing with him); he has the length and the quickness, if he can find consistency and continue to learn. Led by Butler, these three can form a perfectly adequate, if not superior rotation on both offense and defense.

[Hoopalotta]

Hey Doc, I don't want to dwell in the negatives, but it just seems the discipline is really far off with this team offensively and it's causing lots of angst in the ranks, particularly amongst out upper strata guys.

I don't know, I mean, we're about seven points in the Bucks, Sixers and away Raptors game from being a ghastly 4-14 and in full bore implosion mode; there would just be no recovery from that considering the expectations. Pride would have boiled over into poisonous feuding. So without those seven points, I'm quite sure there would have been no going back and discussion of rebuilding wouldn't be 'should we?' but rather 'how will we?'.

Fortunately, the boys did score those points, but a $70+ million dollar team shouldn't really have that kind of a margin. I know, 'should', sure it's ridiculous to say and there's mitigating factors and all, but I fully expect that the bean counters will think in terms something like that. Ownership needs to go into a team like that with some kind of a grand goal, and if it's not being met, you can't expect them to spend big and sacrifice the future. I just absolutely do not believe that management is going to go into 2011 with four guys averaging $12 Million a year each on the books if they're not a really, really good team.

It's hard to look at a lot of those possessions in the last game and say that progress is being made as a whole. Honestly, Flip is not looking like a happy guy here. I liked seeing Gil look more confident putting up shots, but he and Caron were irresponsible and wild. However, the upside with Gil putting up some wild shots is too high to shackle him, he'll come around and has shown good signs considering, so if we green light Gil to gun to an extent, I just see someone like Miller, a deferential guy, facilitating balance while on the court with Jamison and Gil much more than Caron. Flip can go to Mike and say "Look, get us into some good shots" and you're going to see results, much like in the home win against Cleveland, where Mike was fantastic at settling us down. He is injured, yes. Conversely, if Caron is traded to Houston, and they're struggling to score against the Lakers in the Playoffs, and Adleman turns and says "Look, we're completely shut down. We need to run the offense through you on iso's" we'd both agree that he would have a lot better time of it in turning to Butler over Miller.

Obviously Butler has his strengths, and he's a guy who can make a lot of things happen under the right circumstances, but the fit is just so awkward right now that it's hard to watch. I am pretty well convinced at this point that it's easier for him to get his game going when he's not playing with Gil. That's not his fault, but it seems to be true. We can't just ignore the back and forth between those two and think because we're not hearing it now in the press that the situation has tangibly improved.

From where I'm sitting, it seems that discord is just all too rampant, though I suppose we'll know a bit more after a few more games. My view though is that, yes, it's possible that things can get turned around, but we need a chemistry reboot, because as is, this seems to be one of the least cohesive Bullets teams in a good long while and it all starts with the fit at the top of the roster.

[montestewart]

we're about seven points in the Bucks, Sixers and away Raptors game from being a ghastly 4-14 and in full bore implosion mode

Actually, ten points for the losses, but we're also twelve points away from 10-8 and talking playoffs. We're 7-11 (big gulp), waiting for Miller to return, waiting to see if Young has really taken the next big step, fairly certain that Blatche has taken that step, confident that Haywood still brings what we thought he did. Most of us would like to see McGee take advantage of opportunities this year and take a step forward, and some of us still hope that Foye will eventually show up. We're all generally excited that Boykins brings another very positive dimension to our offense but (some of us) are waiting to see what the long-term implications are.

I'm very concerned about the offense, especially the big 3. I saw the comments about Butler's usage last year versus years prior, and 82games.com has Butler rated highly in clutch stats in both 07-08 and 08-09. I don't discount such measures, but I watched almost every game last year from start to finish, no matter how bad it was. I saw Butler repeatedly do things down the stretch (fouling recklessly into 3 on 1 coverage, ridiculous chucks, etc.) that seemed unlike him.

My hope had been that Arenas' return would take pressure off Butler, but I still see some of the same. Arenas' return is complicated by a new system and other variables (not the least of which is Miller) but Butler may still return to his tough, reliable point forward (he's had 9 assists in the last two games), 3rd option (last 4 games: 17.3 PPG, .500 on 2P FGA, .900 on FTs, numbers pretty consistent), clutch-down-the-stretch self. The way he's been playing defense, I can be patient, and if along with that defensive intensity his offensive games returns to its former self, I'll retract any of my trade suggestions, because he'll be worth a bit more than I'd been looking for.

I'm a little more concerned right now about Arenas finding his place in the offense and helping everyone else find their place. I'm also concerned about Jamison's FT % and about some of his quick, long bombs (bad memories of last year).

If the Wizards win today in Detroit, I'll look at which of these worries proved unimportant, either because the problems weren't as great as I perceived them to be, or because every team has flaws (because all teams lose some of the time) and good teams learn to overcome their flaws. I can still see the Wizards, with this roster, being one of those teams.

[Zerocious]

psych!

[sashae]

I love Caron's game, I love what he brought to the team last year in a terrible, terrible situation.

However, with Gil back, they don't fit together. I'd be perfectly happy if EITHER of the two of them were shown the gate.

[dobrojim]

bump

caron's back to playing a lot like the guy who was an AllStar

Excellent game last night. I think he kinda won his
match-up with Delfino dontcha think?

[nate33]

Delfino? Was he even playing?

[pancakes3]

speaking of riding the fickle wave that is fandom, lots of butler love given his recent performance. however i'll offer a lob to doc, or whoever else wants to refute me...

-anecdotally he's missed about... 8 gimme layups?
-he's settling for a butt ton of jumpers - not system based. he just gets the ball swung out to him, and he jacks it up instead of making a move.
-if he does make a move, it's pump-faked first, giving the post defender time to react and get get into position
-he's not scoring very efficiently overall, though he seems to have picked it up as of late.
-his 3 point shooting has be OFF. he's shooting the same as Blatche, except taking 2 more attempts per game. i'd rather those 3's be pump fakes, and he drives to the hole instead.
- SIDEBAR: Nick Young is shooting an astonishing .401 on the season. It felt like he was scoring more efficiently

however he is playing better defense, snagging more rebounds, and as clutch as ever from the FT line. i just wish he took more than 4.8 FT's a game.

note, i do appreciate butler. i don't think it's time to blow the team up. i WOULD trade him for someone like rudy gay or gerald wallace. i wouldnt' trade him just for the sake of it... i.e. getting marvin williams.

[miller31time]

I'm not saying he hasn't turned the corner but I'm definitely going to need more than 1 good game (that happened to be against Milwaukee, near his home-town Racine) to declare he's a new player.

[miller31time]

- SIDEBAR: Nick Young is shooting an astonishing .401 on the season. It felt like he was scoring more efficiently

Remember how awful he started the year? Doesn't surprise me he's shooting 40%. Heck, I'm surprised it's as high as it is.

[MJG]

- SIDEBAR: Nick Young is shooting an astonishing .401 on the season. It felt like he was scoring more efficiently

Remember how awful he started the year? Doesn't surprise me he's shooting 40%. Heck, I'm surprised it's as high as it is.

Yea, he started 4-20 in his first six games, 20%. Since then he is 59-131, a much more respectable 45%. Ditto on the threes, as he was 2-7 in the first six, 28.5%, and has been 7-18 since, 38.9%.

As for Caron, it's good to see him playing better. He's still absolutely not what he was during the all-star days, but he's also not a wretch like he was the first month of the season. Was it just a good week, or is he rounding back into form? Stay tuned.

[dobrojim]

as long as TJ keeps his TOs down, I'm happy. Those are the momentum
killers. Even a forced/bad shot has a chance to go in. the appropriate-ness of
a shot also depends on having rebounders ie Haywood in position.

It would be interesting to know how Wood's off reb % varies from
player to player but then you'd also have to factor in court time.

[DCZards]

speaking of riding the fickle wave that is fandom, lots of butler love given his recent performance. however i'll offer a lob to doc, or whoever else wants to refute me...

-anecdotally he's missed about... 8 gimme layups?

Most of those missed layups were on aggressive drives to the basket. I'll take that all the time...because those misses will start going in more often than not.

however he is playing better defense, snagging more rebounds, and as clutch as ever from the FT line. i just wish he took more than 4.8 FT's a game.

CB has also almost doubled the number of assists per game compared to what he wa getting earlier in the season. He's averaged close to 3 assists per game the last couple of weeks...expect that number to edge closer to 4 assists per game. And CB appears to have gotten his groove back in the steals category...with two games with five steals last week.

Tough Juice's poor shot selection and inconsistent performance has been maddening. But the record will show that, even in games where he's struggled for the first 3 plus quarters, CB has been clutch in the last 6-8 minutes of just about every game.

And he's still, by far, the toughest SOB on the Zards....and that counts for something.

[Dat2U]

CB has also almost doubled the number of assists per game compared to what he wa getting earlier in the season. He's averaged close to 3 assists per game the last couple of weeks...expect that number to edge closer to 4 assists per game. And CB appears to have gotten his groove back in the steals category...with two games with five steals last week.

Tough Juice's poor shot selection and inconsistent performance has been maddening. But the record will show that, even in games where he's struggled for the first 3 plus quarters, CB has been clutch in the last 6-8 minutes of just about every game.

And he's still, by far, the toughest SOB on the Zards....and that counts for something.

I don't know how toughness is being defined here so I may be off base with this. Butler might be the most physically toughest player we have but mentally tough, I'm not so sure.

Remember, Caron's struggles go beyond this season. It's goes to how poorly he handled last year too. His shameless self-promoting that "I'm still an all-star" during last season was embarrassing. His attitude, selfishness and sulking were all on display. These are NOT traits of a guy who's mentally tough. I'm not saying Butler hasn't busted his ass or overcame alot in his youth to become the player he is to day. I'm saying there's alot cracks in the armor of a guy who's nickname is "Tough Juice"

I'm glad he's looking abit better, but it shouldn't take a supposedly mentally tough player a year and a half to find his swagger again.

[hands11]

It's games like last nights game that piss me off with this dude, simply b/c we all know what CB can do... He's a slashing SF, above average wing defender with great passing ability... If he doesn't use those skills in which he excels, and tries to do more than he can do, he will suck (as seen in most games this season)...

On our team he is the perfect third option and glue guy, b/c his skillset is pretty big... If he can keep that in mind, he'll play the exact same game he had yesterday every night... Great passing, great D, aggressive when needed, no contested jumpers...

As long as he continues to play as he should, (4apg, slashing SF) I'll jump back on the bandwagon... He most def gets props for yesterdays game, hope he keeps it up...

+1

CB had been sucking RSSS. His ego was writing checks he couldn't cash. He was forcing shots on fast breaks. He just wasn't playing like the old CB who was a TEAM player. A special kind of talent who was a GLUE guy. The assists. The steals. The Though Juice.

I know I was loosing faith that he wasn't that player anymore.

But after seeing him change his game about 4 games ago, I like what I see.

That said, I still don't like the idea of us having so much money tied up in 3 players. Two of which aren't that young anymore. We will have to see. Either way this is good for the team. Stock is rising again in Gil, AJ and CB.

[hands11]

Poor form, Wizfans. There's a thread for Caron hate. This ain't it. I'm pretty unhappy with the guy right now too, but let Doc have his thread and go post your pissiness in the AmazSuckCB....

Nahhhh. That was hardly poor form. The thread title invites it.

If it was just a straight up CB appreciation thread, then maybe it would be poor form.

But when someone post a F... y'all in the title... then it's an open season thread.

Let the jousting and smack talk continue

[AlohaWiz]

I think Michael Lee has uncovered the true reason why Butler and Arenas are slow to redevelop their chemistry on court: Dew envy!

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Arenas also disputed the story, saying he and Saunders have a great relationship. He said that he has never complained about sitting in the fourth quarter of games or being substituted. "I've never said not one thing about anything. Me and him have a great understanding," Arenas said, adding that the two often share Mountain Dews after practice.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02215.html
______________________________________________________________________________________________

P.S. Sorry if this has already been posted, but I didn't see it anywhere else.