Really, do we care? Saunders vs Brooks GT 12/29/09

[LyricalRico]

But, like I said before, I realize there is no way in hell I am going to change your mind about Flip. You are convinced that Flip is the main problem with this team and not the personnel, just like everyone thought EJ and Tapscott were the main problems with this team. Personally, I think your main beef with this team should be with EG, not Flip. He is the one who "stuck with continuity and hopes of people coming back," not Flip.

Hey Lyrical, in your singling out of Dandridge's "beautiful post" you cut this final paragraph. I'm sure it was inadvertent, right?

No, I was just making it more beautiful-er.

[no D in Hibachi]

CCJ, I think most people would agree that the two main problems with this team are defense and shot jacking.

I just finished reading The Book of Basketball by Bill Simmons. It's a pretty good read if you have a solid week of nothing to do (700 pages). Towards the beginning of the book Simmons re-hashed an encounter with Isiah Thomas where Thomas shared with him the secret of basketball and why his Pistons teams in the late 80's were so good even though they were inferior skill-wise to the Lakers, Celtics, and Bulls. Thomas said "The secret of basketball is that it's not about basketball." He goes on, "We won because we liked each other, knew our roles, ignored statistics, and valued winning over everything else. We won because our best players sacrificed to make everyone happy. We won as long as everyone remained on the same page, and by the same token, we lost if any of those three factors weren't in place."

I've thought about that quote for a while because the 87 Lakers were one of the top 5 teams in NBA history and lost to the Pistons in the 88 finals and also because the 91 Bulls were also one of the top teams in NBA history but consistently lost to the Pistons teams of the late 80's. How was it that the Pistons beat two of the most talented teams in NBA history? Because it wasn't about basketball.

As I look at the current state of the Wizards it's ALL about basketball. It's ALL about stats. The best players on the teams make ABSOLUTELY ZERO sacrifices to make everyone happy. No one on the current Wizards team besides Haywood knows their role. Among the current Wizards Haywood is the only player who knows anything about ''the secret'' of basketball, which is why he'd be so incredibly perfect for the Spurs.

Last nights game epitomized how the 09 Wizards are the antithesis of the late 80's Pistons and proved once again why Jamison has to be traded. Shot jacking is the most obvious demonstration that a player doesn't understand "the secret". It clearly tells the team that my stats matter more than winning. How is this sacrificing to keep his teammates happy?

In contrast, look at Tim Duncan, who for all intents and purposes understands ''the secret''. He has never had a game where he's shot 25 times this season; his high is 22. This season he's shot the ball more than 20 times in only 3 of his 27 games. Jamison, on the other hand has shot more than 20 times in 8 out of 21 games.

Jamison doesn't have the ability to sacrifice for the better of the team. He's practically unwilling to do so. Remember when he was on the 03 Mavs? They were a legit contending team, but Antawn was basically forcing himself off the team by crying about his 6th man role! Had he embraced his role and not forced his way out of Dallas they probably would have won it all in 06, but hey, why sacrifice to win championships when you can jack 25 shots per game on a sub .350 team?

Lastly, and then I'll conclude my rant, Isiah spoke about how the best players on the team HAVE to be the hardest working defensive players on the team. Jamison is the most apathetic looking defensive player on the team and as a PF is exceptionally bad at rotations. I don't care that Jamison doesn't have the body-type to be a great defensive player, but then again neither did Bruce Bowen who routinely stuck it to Lebron who out-weighed him by 40 and was 2-3 inches taller. Neither did Bill Russell, who at 6'9'' and 215 is considered to be the best defensive player in the history of the NBA, and don't say it was a different game because Russell owned Wilt and Wilt was 7'1'' 275. Jamison is 6'9'' 235 and can't even cover Jeff effin Green! As the leader of the team, Jamison set the tone that no-defense playing shot jacking is okay. With him gone the entire culture of losing will go with him.

I hope the Wiz trade Jamison to the Cavs because Jamison is the oil to ''the secrets'' water. The Cavs will never win big with Jamison and I expect the Wizards to win more and be more enjoyable to watch without Jamison .

[no D in Hibachi]

Jamison is being used as a scapegoat by some people when in reality it's the whole team that's dysfunctional.

Jamison is the scapegoat because he is the captain, the guy everyone looks to. He sets the tone for the rest of the players. He let's everyone know that jacking shots and slacking off on defense is an okay thing to do. The 07 C's were one of the worst defensive teams in history. The 08 Celtics were one of the best defensive teams in history. KG didn't do it all by himself. As the captain and leader of the team KG let everyone knww that sucking ass at defense wouldn't be tolerated. AJ doesn't even pretend to care and everyone follows suit.

[dobrojim]

Mental approach

it's all well and good to have confidence in your shot but
before jacking, you should consider the consequences of
a miss.

I think Flip was right back in June when he talked about
our O being key to our D. It's excruciating to watch us
get outworked/outsmarted as evidenced by the difficulty
of our shots and how well they are defended vs the opp
team's shots and how well they are (not) defended.

[VictorPage44]

do you have an explanation for why we're 6 points/100 poss. better with him on the court for the entire season?

To start, the majority of jamison's on/off #s (~66%) are affected by the fact that he missed entire games.
I'll give you a few reasons.

1) Strength of schedule, the teams we played in the first nine games were better than the teams we played in the last 21. (6/9 +.500 vs 7/21 +.500)

2) Oberto/stevenson. Look at the playing time each got in the first 9 games vs. the last 21. The offensive inefficiency is greatly effected by those two being a larger part of the rotation while jamison was injured.

3) Gilbert arenas slowly working his way back from injury early in the season hurt the teams statistics as well.

4) He doesnt have any good backups. blatche off the bench is a shell of blatche as a starter.

5) no backup PG while Jamison was injured

Those are all reasons why the statistics are skewed a bit in AJ's favor. With that said, i agree that jamison doesnt deserve all of the blame. There are plenty of other factors that have led to this seasons' record (including team defense/lack of a bench/terrible shot selection). However, I think jamison's play is a microcosm of the teams' play (~13 FGA per assist, plays the worst D on the team), and for reasons that LyricalRico outlined a bit, the team would benifit from trading him more than any other player--including butler-- IMO.

[montestewart]

CCJ, I think most people would agree that the two main problems with this team are defense and shot jacking. Most of the people on this board blamed both of those problems primarily on the coach the last 4-5 years, not on the starting five. Most of the people on this board (including you) argued that this team, with the Big 3 leading the way, would be a better team with a different coach. If you all thought this, why is it so ludicrous that Flip would think he could change this team despite its history?

I'm one that came into this season seeing essentially the team that took Cleveland to 6 games in the 07-08 playoffs, added a rejuvenated Arenas, steady 3P shooting, passing, and backcourt rebounding from Miller and Foye, selfless veteran skills and leadership (former NBA champ) Oberto backing up the bigs, the development of Blatche, Young and McGee, and Flip Saunders emphasis on team play, system, and greater defensive effort (greater and better use of Haywood, prudent use of McGuire and Stevenson, motivation of Butler and possibly Arenas, and a system that maximized defensive strengths and masked weaknesses) and saw (through my special lenses) a giant leap forward in the making.

I had to think Saunders would make a difference and could change the teams bad habits and maximize its obvious talent, and he had to think that coming in here. I didn't think he was a great coach, but a good one that had been to the ECF multiple times. I still think he's a good coach, even if I don't always get what he's up to. I didn't think Jordan was necessarily as bad a coach as was made out, but it became apparent that he was horrible for the Wizards as assembled (and the Sixers as assembled). Saunders may never coach the Wizards to a championship, but he's only coached 30 games, and switching coaches likely would bring no change.

Change the roster (yeah, it's not all Jamison's fault, but in his performance and in his demeanor, he is perhaps the greatest single disappointment, and I agree with the comments of no D in Hibachi and VictorPage44 above), and by 2011 get rid of the Big-3 (maybe keep Arenas) and bring in new players: veterans, draft picks, unsigned free agents, whatever, that may be more willing to embrace more of Isaiah Thomas' team concept (the one he had as a player at least) that no D in Hibachi mentioned.

I loved watching Thomas' Pistons. Other than the Bullets championship, my favorite has been the Pistons knocking off the Lakers in 2004, and I loved watching the Spurs-Pistons the following year. I like watching highlight reel plays as much as the next person, but even more, I like watching well assembled, well-coached TEAMS selflessly executing and winning. Hey, maybe someday that can be my team.

[dandridge 10]

CCJ, I think most people would agree that the two main problems with this team are defense and shot jacking.

I just finished reading The Book of Basketball by Bill Simmons. It's a pretty good read if you have a solid week of nothing to do (700 pages). Towards the beginning of the book Simmons re-hashed an encounter with Isiah Thomas where Thomas shared with him the secret of basketball and why his Pistons teams in the late 80's were so good even though they were inferior skill-wise to the Lakers, Celtics, and Bulls. Thomas said "The secret of basketball is that it's not about basketball." He goes on, "We won because we liked each other, knew our roles, ignored statistics, and valued winning over everything else. We won because our best players sacrificed to make everyone happy. We won as long as everyone remained on the same page, and by the same token, we lost if any of those three factors weren't in place."

I've thought about that quote for a while because the 87 Lakers were one of the top 5 teams in NBA history and lost to the Pistons in the 88 finals and also because the 91 Bulls were also one of the top teams in NBA history but consistently lost to the Pistons teams of the late 80's. How was it that the Pistons beat two of the most talented teams in NBA history? Because it wasn't about basketball.

As I look at the current state of the Wizards it's ALL about basketball. It's ALL about stats. The best players on the teams make ABSOLUTELY ZERO sacrifices to make everyone happy. No one on the current Wizards team besides Haywood knows their role. Among the current Wizards Haywood is the only player who knows anything about ''the secret'' of basketball, which is why he'd be so incredibly perfect for the Spurs.

Last nights game epitomized how the 09 Wizards are the antithesis of the late 80's Pistons and proved once again why Jamison has to be traded. Shot jacking is the most obvious demonstration that a player doesn't understand "the secret". It clearly tells the team that my stats matter more than winning. How is this sacrificing to keep his teammates happy?

In contrast, look at Tim Duncan, who for all intents and purposes understands ''the secret''. He has never had a game where he's shot 25 times this season; his high is 22. This season he's shot the ball more than 20 times in only 3 of his 27 games. Jamison, on the other hand has shot more than 20 times in 8 out of 21 games.

Jamison doesn't have the ability to sacrifice for the better of the team. He's practically unwilling to do so. Remember when he was on the 03 Mavs? They were a legit contending team, but Antawn was basically forcing himself off the team by crying about his 6th man role! Had he embraced his role and not forced his way out of Dallas they probably would have won it all in 06, but hey, why sacrifice to win championships when you can jack 25 shots per game on a sub .350 team?

Lastly, and then I'll conclude my rant, Isiah spoke about how the best players on the team HAVE to be the hardest working defensive players on the team. Jamison is the most apathetic looking defensive player on the team and as a PF is exceptionally bad at rotations. I don't care that Jamison doesn't have the body-type to be a great defensive player, but then again neither did Bruce Bowen who routinely stuck it to Lebron who out-weighed him by 40 and was 2-3 inches taller. Neither did Bill Russell, who at 6'9'' and 215 is considered to be the best defensive player in the history of the NBA, and don't say it was a different game because Russell owned Wilt and Wilt was 7'1'' 275. Jamison is 6'9'' 235 and can't even cover Jeff effin Green! As the leader of the team, Jamison set the tone that no-defense playing shot jacking is okay. With him gone the entire culture of losing will go with him.

I hope the Wiz trade Jamison to the Cavs because Jamison is the oil to ''the secrets'' water. The Cavs will never win big with Jamison and I expect the Wizards to win more and be more enjoyable to watch without Jamison .

Good post and I agree with most of what you are saying (BTW, I got the book for X-mas but am reading "When the Game was Ours" first...repeats a lot of what Thomas was saying). However, I don't think you can pick on Jamison without also picking equally on Arenas. He IS our best player and he is far from being the hardest worker on defense. In fact, I would pick on Arenas more for his poor defense because at least he has the physical tools to be a better defender at his position (he is quick, strong and has decent size for his position). Out of the two, I'd rather see Jamison go because I think Arenas brings more to the table than Jamison. However, I'm not sure this team is really going to change with Arenas around either.

[NoVaO]

Last nights game epitomized how the 09 Wizards are the antithesis of the late 80's Pistons and proved once again why Jamison has to be traded. Shot jacking is the most obvious demonstration that a player doesn't understand "the secret". It clearly tells the team that my stats matter more than winning. How is this sacrificing to keep his teammates happy?

In contrast, look at Tim Duncan, who for all intents and purposes understands ''the secret''. He has never had a game where he's shot 25 times this season; his high is 22. This season he's shot the ball more than 20 times in only 3 of his 27 games. Jamison, on the other hand has shot more than 20 times in 8 out of 21 games.

Jamison is 15th in FGA per game at 16.6, which is just .2 shots lower than his career average. You know who is first in eFG%? Jamison. And there are many great players who shoot 20+ shots per game...does Kobe not understand the secret? What about Wade?

If you're shooting a lot of shots, you better make sure you're efficient, which Jamison is.

Jamison doesn't have the ability to sacrifice for the better of the team. He's practically unwilling to do so. Remember when he was on the 03 Mavs? They were a legit contending team, but Antawn was basically forcing himself off the team by crying about his 6th man role! Had he embraced his role and not forced his way out of Dallas they probably would have won it all in 06, but hey, why sacrifice to win championships when you can jack 25 shots per game on a sub .350 team?

I know Jamison has said that he never liked being in the 6th man role, but I never saw him complain while actually in Dallas. He also won the 6th man of the year award, so I assume he embraced his role just fine.

Lastly, and then I'll conclude my rant, Isiah spoke about how the best players on the team HAVE to be the hardest working defensive players on the team. Jamison is the most apathetic looking defensive player on the team and as a PF is exceptionally bad at rotations. I don't care that Jamison doesn't have the body-type to be a great defensive player, but then again neither did Bruce Bowen who routinely stuck it to Lebron who out-weighed him by 40 and was 2-3 inches taller. Neither did Bill Russell, who at 6'9'' and 215 is considered to be the best defensive player in the history of the NBA, and don't say it was a different game because Russell owned Wilt and Wilt was 7'1'' 275. Jamison is 6'9'' 235 and can't even cover Jeff effin Green! As the leader of the team, Jamison set the tone that no-defense playing shot jacking is okay. With him gone the entire culture of losing will go with him.

He's a bad defender and always has been. HIs effort on D has never been great, but I've never seen him as an "apathetic" defender. I actually think his IQ on defense is lacking as well.

Jamison is the scapegoat because he is the captain, the guy everyone looks to. He sets the tone for the rest of the players.

Alright, I can see this as a reason to point more of a finger at him.

He let's everyone know that jacking shots and slacking off on defense is an okay thing to do.

I don't buy this however. Nobody besides Brendan Haywood had any sort of defensive reputation before coming to this team. Not Jamison, not Arenas, not Butler (he was a matador on a terrible Lakers team), not Nick Young, not Andray Blache, not Randy Foye, not Mike Miller (though he was known to rebound well). Stevenson was the only guy with a legit defensive reputation.

The 07 C's were one of the worst defensive teams in history. The 08 Celtics were one of the best defensive teams in history. KG didn't do it all by himself. As the captain and leader of the team KG let everyone knww that sucking ass at defense wouldn't be tolerated. AJ doesn't even pretend to care and everyone follows suit.

The 2007 Celtics were ranked 16th in defensive efficiency, something we haven't come close to in the last 5 years. It's also worth mentioning that Rajon Rondo was only a rookie in 2007.

[NoVaO]

To start, the majority of jamison's on/off #s (~66%) are affected by the fact that he missed entire games.

1) Strength of schedule, the teams we played in the first nine games were better than the teams we played in the last 21. (6/9 +.500 vs 7/21 +.500)

I don't think that should have an effect on a player's on/off numbers. His teammates have played in the same games Jamison has and the bottom line is that the team has better with on the court than off of it.

2) Oberto/stevenson. Look at the playing time each got in the first 9 games vs. the last 21. The offensive inefficiency is greatly effected by those two being a larger part of the rotation while jamison was injured.

Not sure that is going to have a big effect on the on/off difference either. Neither has played enough minutes for it to be significant. Plus, it is Jamison that replaced Oberto.

3) Gilbert arenas slowly working his way back from injury early in the season hurt the teams statistics as well.

Again, the team is still better when he is on the court compared to when he is off. This isn't about the on/off ratings for other players. Just Jamison.

Those are all reasons why the statistics are skewed a bit in AJ's favor. With that said, i agree that jamison doesnt deserve all of the blame. There are plenty of other factors that have led to this seasons' record (including team defense/lack of a bench/terrible shot selection). However, I think jamison's play is a microcosm of the teams' play (~13 FGA per assist, plays the worst D on the team), and for reasons that LyricalRico outlined a bit, the team would benifit from trading him more than any other player--including butler-- IMO.[/quote]

I don't think this team will benefit by trading just Jamison. The team is better with Jamison than without him. And a Butler/Arenas does nothing for us either. The team needs to be gutted and I agree it has to start with Jamison, but not because he's most to blame for this team's problems -- remember this team was 2-7 without him -- but he's one of the oldest, most expensive players on this roster. He, and the expired contracts need to go so we can get the ball rolling.

And I'll lastly point out that Jamison hasn't had a negative on/off rating since the data started in 03/04 with Dallas where they were three points better with him on the floor.

[montestewart]

Those are all reasons why the statistics are skewed a bit in AJ's favor. With that said, i agree that jamison doesnt deserve all of the blame. There are plenty of other factors that have led to this seasons' record (including team defense/lack of a bench/terrible shot selection). However, I think jamison's play is a microcosm of the teams' play (~13 FGA per assist, plays the worst D on the team), and for reasons that LyricalRico outlined a bit, the team would benifit from trading him more than any other player--including butler-- IMO.

I don't think this team will benefit by trading just Jamison. The team is better with Jamison than without him. And a Butler/Arenas does nothing for us either. The team needs to be gutted and I agree it has to start with Jamison, but not because he's most to blame for this team's problems -- remember this team was 2-7 without him -- but he's one of the oldest, most expensive players on this roster. He, and the expired contracts need to go so we can get the ball rolling.

Not all the blame, but as captain, as a recently demonstrative whiner and no-leadership showing poor sport, as a no-defense shot jacker (more on that later), I think he should get a lot of blame. The team needs to make many changes, but as you say, his age, contract, and game combine to make him the number one person to move. 2-7 without Jamison and 8-13 with doesn't by itself tell me the team is better off with him; it's too small a sample, doesn't take into account strength of schedule, early season meshing, and adjusting to playing without playing without designated go-to scorer Jamison.

Either way, the team falls short, with or without him, and since this summer, I've seen people offer the "better with Jamison than without him" as if without him meant he was gone with nothing in return and Michael Ruffin taking his place. The issue for some of us has been make a plan, find a trade, move Jamison (because he does that one thing really well) and get a better all-around team player to share the spot with Blatche. Coupled with other thougthful moves, the team would likely be better without him.

Jamison is 15th in FGA per game at 16.6, which is just .2 shots lower than his career average. You know who is first in eFG%? Jamison. And there are many great players who shoot 20+ shots per game...does Kobe not understand the secret? What about Wade?

If you're shooting a lot of shots, you better make sure you're efficient, which Jamison is.

I assume that's 16th in FGAs in the NBA, and first in eFG% on the team, because he's quite far from leading the league in eFG%. He actually doesn't even lead the Wizards, he's fourth, after Miller, Oberto, and Haywood. It makes sense that centers would lead, but Jamison is a PF who gets many easy put backs and short arcs around the basket (and I like that part of his game) but that is where his far-from-leading-the-league and not-even-leading-his-own-team efficiency comes from. It would be much better if he would find a little Mike Miller in him and not take so many of his ill-advised chucks, and I'm assuming if you've watched the games, you've seen them--he gets to the three point circle looking as if he's unaware of the other four players on his team and launches with a mere 20 seconds left on the shot clock (and sometimes pads his rebounds by grabbing his own miss).

Butler does the same thing, and Arenas too, but they are ball handlers (I use that term loosely with both), looking for a drive, a dish, or a shot. (Note: Bryant and Wade get it: the offense runs through them, so of course they get more touches and take more shots; still, they have career eFG% comparable to Jamison even though as the primary scorers on their respective teams they get more defensive attention, and they have FAR better all-around games.) Jamison's job is to score points (and get a few rebounds) and in addition to being called out for his "leadership," he deserves to be called out for a glaring shortcoming in his offensive game. He could do better, and if he can't, he's in a poor position to be a captain and a leader, because the leader chucks pointless long jumpers and plays no-D, and seems unable to even acknowledge that these are flaws in his game. How then, can he lead others away from the same behavior?

[VictorPage44]

@novao

The point i was making by bringing up strength of schedule and the roster situations early in the season was that they had an effect on Jamison's "off" numbers, and as a result, his on/off differential. What takes the biggest hit, according to the numbers, is the teams' offense (101 pts/100 poss). I think the fact that oberto/stevenson averaged 20+ MPG each in those first nine games (and considerably less since) effected the teams' overall scoring. I think the lack of a backup PG effected the teams' scoring, and lastly I think Arenas working his way backup into the lineup affected the teams' scoring. Not having jamison hurt the teams' scoring as well, however, the disparity is not nearly as high as the numbers make it seem. It's like when arenas was top five (or higher?) in the league in on/off differential with antonio daniels backing him up. Hes just that much better than the team was in the situation without him--which wasnt good. Without jamison, with some smarter rotations (leaving oberto and dsteve on the bench), and with blatche returning to early season form, I'm not so sure this team would be any worse without jamison.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ, I think most people would agree that the two main problems with this team are defense and shot jacking. Most of the people on this board blamed both of those problems primarily on the coach the last 4-5 years, not on the starting five. Most of the people on this board (including you) argued that this team, with the Big 3 leading the way, would be a better team with a different coach. If you all thought this, why is it so ludicrous that Flip would think he could change this team despite its history?

I also think it is ALWAYS easy to look on the outside in and say you would have done things differently. However, you are not walking in Flip's shoes. You don't have to worry about job security, you don't have to worry about animosity in the locker room, you don't have to worry about season ticket holders and fans questioning why you are sitting 2-3 all stars that are making millions of dollars when those season ticket holder and fans paid good money to see those "stars" play.

Its clear to me that Flip thought he could change this team's mindset when he came in. It is also clear to me that Flip tried to give the vets every chance to get that done, and probably gave them a little more rope than he would have since they were all learning a new system. To me, standing in his shoes and considering the other factors that I have already mentioned, I can understand why it has taken 30 games for Flip to say enough is enough.

But, like I said before, I realize there is no way in hell I am going to change your mind about Flip. You are convinced that Flip is the main problem with this team and not the personnel, just like everyone thought EJ and Tapscott were the main problems with this team. Personally, I think your main beef with this team should be with EG, not Flip. He is the one who "stuck with continuity and hopes of people coming back," not Flip.

dandridge, in all honesty I have been one to try to change corporate culture too fast, not thinking about the risks, and having all kinds of folks mad at me. Had to resign after getting tired of trying to defend my actions. (So, maybe I shouldn't be telling Flip to man up!).

I considered Flip's job being secure since he just signed on. I would think him being the coach and the guy assigning minutes he wouldn't worry about the lockerroom. Having to answer to fans and his all stars--okay. Awkward. Hadn't thought about all the fans being down on him.

All I thought about was wins. Seems to me 16 wins would be more acceptable than where his is now.

dandridge, as it stands, thirty games of futilty certainly does give Flip all the free reign he needs.

My complaint STILL is that he didn't have to be in such bad shape. Subtle moves could have won him more games.

[no D in Hibachi]

In all honesty I think Flip has the highest job security of all the players, coaches, and management in the organization. Any player could get traded today, EG could easily get fired today, and since Flip just signed a $20M dollar contract he know's he's going no where. Only Daniel Snyder would be foolish enough to cut ties with a guy he just signed for $20M.

Flip understands his position, which is why I'm sure he was so direct with his comments in the post game conference. He wants to change the culture of this team because he'll be here for at least another two season. His professional repuatation is on the line. Essentially he threw Abe, EG, Arenas, Jamison, and Butler under the bus. Stones...and it's about dame time someone did that!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

To start, the majority of jamison's on/off #s (~66%) are affected by the fact that he missed entire games.

1) Strength of schedule, the teams we played in the first nine games were better than the teams we played in the last 21. (6/9 +.500 vs 7/21 +.500)

I don't think that should have an effect on a player's on/off numbers. His teammates have played in the same games Jamison has and the bottom line is that the team has better with on the court than off of it.

2) Oberto/stevenson. Look at the playing time each got in the first 9 games vs. the last 21. The offensive inefficiency is greatly effected by those two being a larger part of the rotation while jamison was injured.

Not sure that is going to have a big effect on the on/off difference either. Neither has played enough minutes for it to be significant. Plus, it is Jamison that replaced Oberto.

3) Gilbert arenas slowly working his way back from injury early in the season hurt the teams statistics as well.

Again, the team is still better when he is on the court compared to when he is off. This isn't about the on/off ratings for other players. Just Jamison.

Those are all reasons why the statistics are skewed a bit in AJ's favor. With that said, i agree that jamison doesnt deserve all of the blame. There are plenty of other factors that have led to this seasons' record (including team defense/lack of a bench/terrible shot selection). However, I think jamison's play is a microcosm of the teams' play (~13 FGA per assist, plays the worst D on the team), and for reasons that LyricalRico outlined a bit, the team would benifit from trading him more than any other player--including butler-- IMO.

I don't think this team will benefit by trading just Jamison. The team is better with Jamison than without him. And a Butler/Arenas does nothing for us either. The team needs to be gutted and I agree it has to start with Jamison, but not because he's most to blame for this team's problems -- remember this team was 2-7 without him -- but he's one of the oldest, most expensive players on this roster. He, and the expired contracts need to go so we can get the ball rolling.

And I'll lastly point out that Jamison hasn't had a negative on/off rating since the data started in 03/04 with Dallas where they were three points better with him on the floor.

NoVa0, I actually agree with you on Jamison. He's a good, efficient, offensive player. For years and years the team's been better in the +/- with him on the court.

Personally, I think this team would be fine if he were the SF. Washington used to have Jeffries and Hughes with Jamison in a lesser role, prior to Butler arriving. That team did advance a round (but they didn't have to face Lebron!).

I'll never forget the 32/10 playoff series Jamison had against the team that wants to acquire him, Cleveland. He did that with Daniels as the PG, not Gil.

Main thing I think is Jamison's run with the Wizards is up, but he'll thrive somewhere else.