Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims

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Re: Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims 

Post#101 » by d-train » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:41 pm

It might be that some waived players claimed off waivers will have option to choose free agency. Maybe Hickson gets full free agency because he didn't get chance to choose
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Re: Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims 

Post#102 » by HartfordWhalers » Sun Jul 1, 2012 12:10 pm

d-train wrote:It might be that some waived players claimed off waivers will have option to choose free agency. Maybe Hickson gets full free agency because he didn't get chance to choose


I don't understand this. None of them got a chance to choose free agency, all were claimed. Either Hickson is early Bird and the settlement cut some difference between the sides, or Hickson is full bird and the settlement was a complete win for the union.

That said, Hickson didn't even have his q/o picked up, so the difference between the two for Hickson won't matter. However, going forward waiver without amnesty is going to be more of an issue then waiver with the one time amnesty for pre-existing contracts, so its potentially not a moot question.
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Re: Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims 

Post#103 » by Dunkenstein » Sun Jul 1, 2012 5:28 pm

An NBA exec emailed me the following info on Hickson:
"As part of the settlement, Hickson was awarded what the arbitrator initially
ruled. Then going forward for future free agent classes, the new rules of
the settlement overwrite the initial ruling. So that's how Hickson was
granted full Bird rights over and above the settlement."
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Re: Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims 

Post#104 » by HartfordWhalers » Sun Jul 1, 2012 5:39 pm

Dunkenstein wrote:An NBA exec emailed me the following info on Hickson:
"As part of the settlement, Hickson was awarded what the arbitrator initially
ruled. Then going forward for future free agent classes, the new rules of
the settlement overwrite the initial ruling. So that's how Hickson was
granted full Bird rights over and above the settlement."


Awesome to get that info, thanks!!!
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Re: Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims 

Post#105 » by Garf » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:49 am

Silly question: so the Knicks now must be able to match every theoretical offer for Lin with the Early Bird Exception? Arenas still applies? What would be the max contract?

To my understanding, it's:
average salary
average salary + 4.5%
13.67M + 4.5% + 4.5%
13.67M + 4.5% + 4.5% + 4.5% (e.g. as a Player Option, to make it even more attractive)

Correct?
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Re: Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims 

Post#106 » by Dunkenstein » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:53 pm

Garf wrote:Silly question: so the Knicks now must be able to match every theoretical offer for Lin with the Early Bird Exception? Arenas still applies? What would be the max contract?

The first-year salary of an offer sheet cannot be greater than the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, which this year is $5M. The original team can use either the NTMLE (if available) or the EBE to match.

The second-year salary equals the first-year salary plus 4.5%.

Today Houston offered Lin $5M in the first year and $5.225M in year two.

The third-year salary is limited by the maximum amount that the player would have been eligible to receive in that year. Since Lin was offered $14.898M, I'll assume that's what the league determined his maximum salary would be in 2014-15.

The CBA says that the players salary for any subsequent year can increase by no more than 4.1% of the third-year salary. Therefore, the most Lin could have been offered in year four would have been $15,508M.

That of course assumes that team offering Lin a max offer sheet has $10,158M in available cap room this year, the average of the $40,631M total of the four-year max offer sheet.
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Re: Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims 

Post#107 » by Garf » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:42 am

Dunkenstein wrote:The first-year salary of an offer sheet cannot be greater than the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, which this year is $5M. The original team can use either the NTMLE (if available) or the EBE to match.


Then what did the arbitration change? Only introduced an alternative way of matching, allowing the Knicks to become a tax-paying team by signing a couple of 50-year-olds to massive contracts?

Dunkenstein wrote:The third-year salary is limited by the maximum amount that the player would have been eligible to receive in that year. Since Lin was offered $14.898M, I'll assume that's what the league determined his maximum salary would be in 2014-15.


I think you're wrong and it's maximum year 3 salary (the he could have gotten if it wasn't for Arenas) plus two raises. Compare with Asik.
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Re: Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims 

Post#108 » by DBoys » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:11 pm

Garf wrote:
I think you're wrong and it's maximum year 3 salary (the he could have gotten if it wasn't for Arenas) plus two raises. Compare with Asik.


You're probably saying the same thing with Dunkenstein, and vice versa.

If 13.67 is the rounded off version of a max salary in year 1, then the max possible offer for yr 3 is the max he would have otherwise gotten if no restrictions were in place - ie, 13.67 + 9%, or 14.9.

Or, if being more precise, 13,668,750 x 1.09 = 14,898,937.

Dunkenstein is correct in noting that year 4 limit is a 4.1% raise over year 3 (15,509,793) rather than a 13.5% raise over the year 1 max of 13,668,750 (15,514,031).
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Re: Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims 

Post#109 » by DBoys » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:14 pm

Garf wrote:
Dunkenstein wrote:The first-year salary of an offer sheet cannot be greater than the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, which this year is $5M. The original team can use either the NTMLE (if available) or the EBE to match.


Then what did the arbitration change?


The arbitration had nothing to do with the allowable size of an offer sheet. It had to do with what cap exception a team has available to re-sign a player they claim from waivers (or amnesty-waivers).
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Re: Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims 

Post#110 » by Three34 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:38 pm

Garf wrote:
Dunkenstein wrote:The first-year salary of an offer sheet cannot be greater than the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, which this year is $5M. The original team can use either the NTMLE (if available) or the EBE to match.


Then what did the arbitration change? Only introduced an alternative way of matching, allowing the Knicks to become a tax-paying team by signing a couple of 50-year-olds to massive contracts?


Pretty much. Lucky them. The arbitration did however have a very significant impact re: Steve Novak, who got $15 million whereas he would have otherwise only been able to get pittance.
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Re: Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims 

Post#111 » by Garf » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:00 pm

Sham wrote:Pretty much. Lucky them. The arbitration did however have a very significant impact re: Steve Novak, who got $15 million whereas he would have otherwise only been able to get pittance.


I know, right?

Btw, are you by any chance THE Sham of ShamSports.com?
If so, I'm a fan! Your work is amazing! Especially the alternative name for the Pistons :P
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Re: Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims 

Post#112 » by Three34 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:29 pm

Yeah I am. Are you Gar Forman?
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Re: Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims 

Post#113 » by Garf » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:39 am

No no, my name is Daniel and I'm just a random guy doing enough nerdy stuff online (like this mathematical experiment my signature links to) to acknowledge and appreciate the amount of work maintaining your site must cost you! Thanks for that!
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Re: Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims 

Post#114 » by Three34 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:20 am

I knew you were Gar Forman. Hey Gar!
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Re: Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims 

Post#115 » by Dunkenstein » Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:42 am

He's not Gar Forman. And I should know. I'm John Paxson. Or is it Jim Paxson. All I know is that I'm one of them. I'm so confused.
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Re: Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims 

Post#116 » by Garf » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:56 pm

Sham wrote:I knew you were Gar Forman. Hey Gar!


Well, this is funny, I'm not sure how to prove I'm not someone I've never even heard of :)
Anyway, Garf is short from Garfield, my cartoony role model.
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Re: Possible Arbitration on Bird Rights after waiver claims 

Post#117 » by Three34 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:23 am

He's the GM of the Bulls. But you already know this because YOU ARE HIM.

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