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Question about backloaded contracts

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Post#1 Question about backloaded contracts
Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:10 am by Thunderhead

Can a players first contract after his rookie deal, be backloaded ?

Example, if OKC had not traded Harden and let him become an RFA, could other teams have backloaded a contract to make it even more difficult for OKC to match ?

I've been told , that they can not do this on a player's second contract. But I can think of no reason why not.
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Post#2 Re: Question about backloaded contracts
Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:45 am by HartfordWhalers

Thunderhead wrote:Can a players first contract after his rookie deal, be backloaded ?

Example, if OKC had not traded Harden and let him become an RFA, could other teams have backloaded a contract to make it even more difficult for OKC to match ?

I've been told , that they can not do this on a player's second contract. But I can think of no reason why not.


Backloaded as in costing more at the end?

Maybe I'm not fully understanding the question, but are you thinking of something like a Lin or Asik contract, where the first two years were held down by the Arenas rule and then in the third year it jumped up?

If so, then the max amount of money for year 3 and 4 is the same for Harden and set by the CBA, but there is no rule limiting the first two years. So there is no way to make the end of the contract more then the existing max. And having more total salary would be more costly to match, then a reduced front even if it were possible.

The exact amount depends upon where the cap is next offseason, but the most another team could offer would look something like what Hibbert got*: a 4 year deal of 13,668,750, 14,283,844, 14,898,938, 15,514,031. OKC could always have offered more, with 7.5% raises instead of 4.5% and a 5th year.


* Unless he wins the MVP this season, and then he could get the Rose rule max.
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Post#3 Re: Question about backloaded contracts
Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:02 am by Thunderhead

Thanks for the reply.

But you've given me far more info than I was looking for :)

Harden was a bad example , because he would've been offered a max as a RFA.

My question has more to do with backloaded contracts in general, so let me rephrase, can a player coming off his rookie contract be offered a backloaded contract.

Or maybe I do it this way, I got this reply in a Twitter conversation , I'm trying to find if its truth

You can't backload a deal for a guy coming off a rookie deal. Only for second round and undrafted players.



Just wonderin , really.
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Post#4 Re: Question about backloaded contracts
Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:59 am by HartfordWhalers

Fair enough. It looks like that person was answering who is eligible for the Arenas rule. See http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q44

In general, the year over year raise limit for Non-Bird rights teams is 4.5%. Obviously the first year of a new deal can jump much more.
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Post#5 Re: Question about backloaded contracts
Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:15 am by Thunderhead

Ric Bucher answered the question this morning on Twitter

Ric Bucher ‏@RicBucher

As several Tweeps and one GM confirmed, only RFAs not eligible for full Bird rights can sign a poison-pill ... http://sulia.com/channel/basketball/f/43a623d1-a945-4467-aaba-b6cb6d329400/?source=twitter&type=tag


And here's his thoughts at the Sulia link

Ric Bucher As several Tweeps and one GM confirmed, only RFAs not eligible for full Bird rights can sign a poison-pill offer sheet. Still checking to see if sheet, after being rejected, can be re-written if mutually agreed upon by player and team.
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Post#6 Re: Question about backloaded contracts
Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:39 am by DBoys

I'm not sure what Bucher is asking or saying, but it's not as complex as he's making it.

1 Arenas rule only applies to players who have finished one or two years in the league and are restricted.
2 Either an offer sheet is extended by a new team and signed by the player (and its matching opportunity ensues), or it isn't.
3 Then the old team either matches the contract in the offer sheet exactly as written and keeps him. or it doesn't and he goes to the new team. Period.
4 The Arenas rule's role is to limit the way that offer sheet can be written.
5 When you match an offer you match the offer exactly (no revisions are allowed) and pay what you match. When you don't match, you lose the player and it's over.
6 The cap hit in year one is restricted for the benefit of the old team, to allow them to match (where otherwise, they won't be able to do so). In these situations, the player is being given an offer that the old team couldn't even offer, because they don't have the cap freedom to do so.
7 This type of contract has been possible since 2005, its not new. The newly applied moniker "poison pill" has invented drama.
8 Prior to this rule, the old team didn't even have the opportunity to match, because they are lacking cap room or exception to do so. For example, if Lin had received an 8.3M first year contract (the amount of cap space that Houston had to have). how would NY have matched it? They had EB rights (allowing up to 5Mish on Lin) and an MLE (same limits) and no cap room.
9 While the focus has been on the structure of the contracts, there's plenty of reason to believe that the reason the old teams in these cases didn't match was because they thought the players weren't worth the salary, not because of the way the cap hits were structured.
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