Andrew Wiggins - can he force his way to the Raptors?

Y-Knot · Post #21 » by **Y-Knot** » Mon Aug 5, 2013 12:30 am

I don't disagree but it's a better strategy than staying in school and risking everyrhing which was the prior suggestion.

DBoys · Post #22 » by **DBoys** » Mon Aug 5, 2013 12:31 am

Y-Knot wrote:You could be right but Ricky Rubio came close to pulling this off and Wiggins would likely have much more clout.

LOL no. I can't believe anyone still believes that silly media fantasy, that Rubio was trying to force his way out of Minny.

It made a nice story for the NY media looking for a basketball savior for the locals. But it's been well documented that the real story of why he didn't come straight to Minnesota is he was stuck in an existing contract that didn't make financial sense to buy out, because of a hefty buyout cost versus NBA salary based on how low he was drafted. When that equation changed (with a lower buyout number), he made a beeline for Minny.

Y-Knot · Post #23 » by **Y-Knot** » Mon Aug 5, 2013 12:43 am

Ok, so then if Wiggins could go to Spain for the same money differential Rubio faced, than why couldn't he successfully leverage the team that drafted him?

Post #24 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Mon Aug 5, 2013 2:23 am

Y-Knot wrote:Ok, so then if Wiggins could go to Spain for the same money differential Rubio faced, than why couldn't he successfully leverage the team that drafted him?

Because the team that drafted him would just retain his rights, just as Minnesota did with Rubio, and Wiggins would just indefinitely put off a possible max 2nd contract. That easy.

If you drafted Lebron James, and retained his rights while he played in Europe, why would you trade him unless you got such a monumental haul in return?

DBoys · Post #25 » by **DBoys** » Mon Aug 5, 2013 2:42 am

Y-Knot wrote:Ok, so then if Wiggins could go to Spain for the same money differential Rubio faced, than why couldn't he successfully leverage the team that drafted him?

If you want to theorize some sort of drama ahead, suit yourself. I don't buy it, however.

What's his leverage?

* Rubio didn't want to play in Europe. He stayed there not to try to prove a point, but because he was stuck. He had no financial choice.

* Europe is not Toronto either. For someone who prefers Toronto, it's even more remote. Those Euro games are way off the radar, with random leagues and games no one in Canada sees. If he plays in the NBA, but not for TOR, he still gets to play in Toronto once or twice a season, he's still in the same league, and his family can watch his NBA games on TV. But none of that is possible in Europe.

* "If you don't trade me, I might go to Europe" would come off as a hollow threat, because whoever drafts him knows he will want to play in the NBA. The money, conditions, and prestige aren't in Europe. When it comes to playing basketball at the ultimate level and reaping the rewards from being the best, the NBA is the place to be, and every player in the world knows that.

If he's willing to sacrifice two whole seasons, without playing anywhere, and toss about $$11M in the trash for not playing, then he has leverage. For a guy who's waited all his life for his first big paycheck, to simply not get it and not play at all, I don't think that's an option he would even consider.

Y-Knot · Post #26 » by **Y-Knot** » Mon Aug 5, 2013 4:41 am

I basically agree with the last two posts, and wouldn't recommend it to Wiggins obviously. The question was could he do it, my answer was that such a gambit was his best shot, not a sure thing by any stretch. Getting a team to blink, while risky, is not impossible. A GM might not want that kind of heat. Its also not that risky financially. Afterall, Jordan Farmar made $10M in Europe last year, while D-Rose "only" made 4.8 his rookie year.

Post #27 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Mon Aug 5, 2013 5:18 am

Y-Knot wrote:I basically agree with the last two posts, and wouldn't recommend it to Wiggins obviously. The question was could he do it, my answer was that such a gambit was his best shot, not a sure thing by any stretch. Getting a team to blink, while risky, is not impossible. A GM might not want that kind of heat. Its also not that risky financially. Afterall, Jordan Farmar made $10M in Europe last year, while D-Rose "only" made 4.8 his rookie year.

If Farmar made $10m, then why would Wiggins ever play in the NBA? On that scale, he could make about $125m a year! Lebron could go overseas, make about $250m a year and own Greece in 2-3 years. Like, all of it.

DBoys · Post #28 » by **DBoys** » Mon Aug 5, 2013 6:45 am

"The question was could he do it"

Wiggins can certainly threaten if he wants. Will it get him traded? Nah.

"Jordan Farmar made $10M in Europe last year"

Farmar declined to return to Europe, because he felt that playing for the Lakers for the minimum salary of $1M or so was more desirable. Hmmm. Enlightening.

Dunkenstein · Post #29 » by **Dunkenstein** » Mon Aug 5, 2013 8:33 am

Y-Knot wrote:Afterall, Jordan Farmar made $10M in Europe last year, while D-Rose "only" made 4.8 his rookie year.

Farmar didn't make $10M in Europe last year. I've read two different reports on his salary. One said last summer he signed a three-year deal at $3.5 a year. Another said he signed a two-year deal at $2.5M a year. Show me a report that said he made $10M last year to play in Turkey. That's just plain ludicrous.

Y-Knot · Post #30 » by **Y-Knot** » Mon Aug 5, 2013 11:49 am

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showth ... p?t=303938

Y-Knot · Post #31 » by **Y-Knot** » Mon Aug 5, 2013 12:23 pm

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... he-lakers/

Y-Knot · Post #32 » by **Y-Knot** » Mon Aug 5, 2013 1:59 pm

As i understand it, Europe salary figs are generally reported in "net" not gross like nba figs are making apples to apples comparisons difficult, but possible to estimate.

http://www.ballineurope.com/european-ba ... ball-3298/

Y-Knot · Post #33 » by **Y-Knot** » Mon Aug 5, 2013 3:10 pm

Also, Josh Childress got 7M/yr after taxes in Greece and the ability to opt out after each year and Krstic got 9M before taxes in Moscow.
http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId= ... rc=desktop

http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId= ... rc=desktop

Y-Knot · Post #34 » by **Y-Knot** » Mon Aug 5, 2013 3:54 pm

My only point is that if you were his agent and Wiggins was intractable on going to Toronto [which he's certainly not] than this is the play I would recommend b/c the Euro threat is not wholly empty or laughably stupid financially. He could even earn more there than in his first few years than in the nba. Which is why I don't think it would be completely ignored by every GM and could plausibly work. Otherwise, I agree, he is stuck with the bad team that drafts him.

Dunkenstein · Post #35 » by **Dunkenstein** » Mon Aug 5, 2013 4:48 pm

Y-Knot wrote:http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/20/jordan-farmar-made-a-financial-sacrifice-to-rejoin-the-lakers/

If you read the article carefully it says that "The exact amount of money Farmar gave up to leave Turkey is unclear, but estimates range from $5-10 million." It does not say that he gave up $10M a year. These are just estimates of how much he gave up on a multi-year contract.

Dunkenstein · Post #36 » by **Dunkenstein** » Mon Aug 5, 2013 4:54 pm

Y-Knot wrote:Also, Josh Childress got 7M/yr after taxes in Greece and the ability to opt out after each year and Krstic got 9M before taxes in Moscow.
http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId= ... rc=desktop

http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId= ... rc=desktop

Both players got that money in 2008 when European basketball was giving out much larger contracts than they are in 2013. The European recession has had a negative effect on all European basketball salaries.

Post #37 » by **Three34** » Mon Aug 5, 2013 5:02 pm

Rule with European salaries is, take the number you first hear, then half it, and you're roughly there.

d-train · Post #38 » by **d-train** » Tue Aug 6, 2013 1:45 am

Sham wrote:
DBoys wrote:The only way to enter the NBA is by first going through an NBA Entry Draft.

Pretty messed up, when you think about it.

The draft is bad but not as bad as the rookie scale contract. Rookies have their contract negotiated by veterans. Think about that, veterans are paid more if rookies get less and veterans negotiate the rookie’s contracts. Veterans negotiate free agency for themselves and the draft for rookies. In a way, veterans are like politicians.

Post #39 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Aug 6, 2013 2:22 am

Y-Knot wrote:My only point is that if you were his agent and Wiggins was intractable on going to Toronto [which he's certainly not] than this is the play I would recommend b/c the Euro threat is not wholly empty or laughably stupid financially. He could even earn more there than in his first few years than in the nba. Which is why I don't think it would be completely ignored by every GM and could plausibly work. Otherwise, I agree, he is stuck with the bad team that drafts him.

And yet, whenever he would come back to the NBA, he would still be bound to the rookie scale contract. Ultimately, he would just be indefinitely pushing back his 2nd contract, and giving up the possibly best paying years of his career on the backend of his career.

Y-Knot · Post #40 » by **Y-Knot** » Tue Aug 6, 2013 3:29 am

True, but guaranteed money now talks louder than daydreaming about your second max contract. If a euro club offered wiggins say $12M would you advise him to turn it down? D-Rose could have blown his knee earlier and missed his first max deal. Jason Williams did...