Hypothetical Draft Slot and Rookie Scale Question

Post #1 » by **Smitty731** » Tue Jun 9, 2015 12:53 pm

As you probably know, the Patriots are losing their first round pick next year due to the football PSI issue. This got me to thinking about when the Timberwolves forfeited their pick due to the Joe Smith contract issue.

Let's say this was to happen again in the NBA and the team with the 15th pick in the Draft had to forfeit the pick...

1. Does the player picked at 16 get the Rookie Scale amount for the 15th pick, since he, by default, became the 15th pick? Does every team just slide up 1 slot in order and there is no 30th pick, and thus no Rookie Scale amount for the 30th pick?

2. Or does the 15th pick just not occur and the player at 16 still gets the Rookie Scale amount for the 16th pick?

Just curious. I looked around some and couldn't find a definitive answer. My guess is that it would be option 1, but I have nothing to back that up. Figured I would see if anyone here knew for certain.

giberish · Post #2 » by **giberish** » Tue Jun 9, 2015 8:13 pm

Smitty731 wrote:As you probably know, the Patriots are losing their first round pick next year due to the football PSI issue. This got me to thinking about when the Timberwolves forfeited their pick due to the Joe Smith contract issue.

Let's say this was to happen again in the NBA and the team with the 15th pick in the Draft had to forfeit the pick...

1. Does the player picked at 16 get the Rookie Scale amount for the 15th pick, since he, by default, became the 15th pick? Does every team just slide up 1 slot in order and there is no 30th pick, and thus no Rookie Scale amount for the 30th pick?

2. Or does the 15th pick just not occur and the player at 16 still gets the Rookie Scale amount for the 15th pick?

Just curious. I looked around some and couldn't find a definitive answer. My guess is that it would be option 1, but I have nothing to back that up. Figured I would see if anyone here knew for certain.

I'm 99% certain that it's #1, but don't have a reference to make it 100%. Also, as noted, the top pick in the 2nd round is pick #30, but doesn't have a 1st round salary scale as they're still a 2nd round pick.

DBoys · Post #3 » by **DBoys** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:08 am

Smitty731 wrote:Let's say this was to happen again in the NBA and the team with the 15th pick in the Draft had to forfeit the pick...

1. Does the player picked at 16 get the Rookie Scale amount for the 15th pick, since he, by default, became the 15th pick? Does every team just slide up 1 slot in order and there is no 30th pick, and thus no Rookie Scale amount for the 30th pick?

2. Or does the 15th pick just not occur and the player at 16 still gets the Rookie Scale amount for the 15th pick?

Not sure what you're trying to differentiate here. Looks like those are two identical outcomes.

Post #4 » by **Smitty731** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:27 am

DBoys wrote:
Smitty731 wrote:Let's say this was to happen again in the NBA and the team with the 15th pick in the Draft had to forfeit the pick...

1. Does the player picked at 16 get the Rookie Scale amount for the 15th pick, since he, by default, became the 15th pick? Does every team just slide up 1 slot in order and there is no 30th pick, and thus no Rookie Scale amount for the 30th pick?

2. Or does the 15th pick just not occur and the player at 16 still gets the Rookie Scale amount for the 15th pick?

Not sure what you're trying to differentiate here. Looks like those are two identical outcomes.

Good catch. The second should say "16 still gets the Rookie Scale amount for the 16th pick?" I will fix it.

Post #5 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:29 pm

Smitty731 wrote:As you probably know, the Patriots are losing their first round pick next year due to the football PSI issue. This got me to thinking about when the Timberwolves forfeited their pick due to the Joe Smith contract issue.

Let's say this was to happen again in the NBA and the team with the 15th pick in the Draft had to forfeit the pick...

1. Does the player picked at 16 get the Rookie Scale amount for the 15th pick, since he, by default, became the 15th pick? Does every team just slide up 1 slot in order and there is no 30th pick, and thus no Rookie Scale amount for the 30th pick?

2. Or does the 15th pick just not occur and the player at 16 still gets the Rookie Scale amount for the 16th pick?

Just curious. I looked around some and couldn't find a definitive answer. My guess is that it would be option 1, but I have nothing to back that up. Figured I would see if anyone here knew for certain.

It isn't quite as clear as your two choices, but everyone's instincts are wrong and in this exact case it would be 2.

What happens is the 15th pick is removed from the scale regardless of which pick was forfeited.

So, if a team that would have picked 10th (or 22nd) has that pick removed, then the picks would still go:
scale 1-14, skip 15, scale 16-30.

(And in case or more picks removed, it would go 15,16,14,17,13, etc...)

Relevant passage in spoilers:

Spoiler:

Post #6 » by **Smitty731** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:28 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
Smitty731 wrote:As you probably know, the Patriots are losing their first round pick next year due to the football PSI issue. This got me to thinking about when the Timberwolves forfeited their pick due to the Joe Smith contract issue.

Let's say this was to happen again in the NBA and the team with the 15th pick in the Draft had to forfeit the pick...

1. Does the player picked at 16 get the Rookie Scale amount for the 15th pick, since he, by default, became the 15th pick? Does every team just slide up 1 slot in order and there is no 30th pick, and thus no Rookie Scale amount for the 30th pick?

2. Or does the 15th pick just not occur and the player at 16 still gets the Rookie Scale amount for the 16th pick?

Just curious. I looked around some and couldn't find a definitive answer. My guess is that it would be option 1, but I have nothing to back that up. Figured I would see if anyone here knew for certain.

It isn't quite as clear as your two choices, but everyone's instincts are wrong and in this exact case it would be 2.

What happens is the 15th pick is removed from the scale regardless of which pick was forfeited.

So, if a team that would have picked 10th (or 22nd) has that pick removed, then the picks would still go:
scale 1-14, skip 15, scale 16-30.

(And in case or more picks removed, it would go 15,16,14,17,13, etc...)

Relevant passage in spoilers:

Spoiler:
i) Notwithstanding Section 1(b)(i) above, if, pursuant to any provision of this
Agreement or the NBA Constitution and By-Laws, one (1) or more Teams
is required to forfeit one (1) or more draft picks in the first round of a
particular NBA Draft, then:

(A) the Rookie Salary Scale for the Salary Cap Year immediately following
such Draft shall be adjusted by removing one (1) or more Rookie Scale Amounts
from the middle of the Rookie Salary Scale, as follows: if one (1) first round pick
is forfeited, then the Rookie Scale Amounts that would have been applicable to
the 15th player selected in the first round (absent any forfeiture of picks)
(hereinafter, the “15th Pick”) shall be removed from the Rookie Salary Scale; if
two (2) first round picks are forfeited, then the Rookie Scale Amounts applicable
to the 15th Pick and the pick immediately following the 15th Pick shall be
removed from the Rookie Salary Scale; if three (3) first round picks are forfeited,
then the Rookie Scale Amounts applicable to the 15th Pick and the picks
immediately preceding and immediately following the 15th Pick shall be removed
from the Rookie Salary Scale; and if more than three picks are forfeited,
additional Rookie Scale Amounts shall be removed from the Rookie Salary Scale
in accordance with the foregoing procedure; and
(B) the Rookie Scale Amounts applicable to players selected in such Draft
shall be determined by their selection number under the Rookie Salary Scale as
adjusted by Section 1(b)(ii)(A) above. Accordingly, for example, if one First
Round Pick were forfeited in the first round of the 2012 Draft, the applicable
Rookie Scale Amounts would remain unchanged for the first 14 picks, and the
Rookie Scale Amounts applicable to the remaining 15 picks in the first round
would be the Rookie Scale Amounts that (absent any forfeiture of picks) would
have been applicable to picks 16 through 30.

Great find! I promise it was just a happy coincidence that I used 15 in my example.

This is good to know, just in case there are future shenanigans!

Post #7 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:36 am

Yup. The T-Wolves still had their draft slot, just, when their draft pick spot came up, it was forfeited, and the draft continued as usual that year. So, everyone stays where they were, and just that one pick was for "no one".

DBoys · Post #8 » by **DBoys** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:11 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Yup. The T-Wolves still had their draft slot, just, when their draft pick spot came up, it was forfeited, and the draft continued as usual that year. So, everyone stays where they were, and just that one pick was for "no one".

That's how the draft order unfolds, yep. But as Hartford outlined, it's not really that simple in relation to determining rookie scale and the effective draft slot of each player picked.