Chris Bosh

[sportscrazy]

At what point can Chris Bosh still retire due to medical causes and have his salary not count against Miami's 2017 cap space?

[DBoys]

To make the summer of 2017 reduction, he can't play more than 9 games this season.

But it's not triggered simply by a retirement of his choosing, but rather by a ruling by a league/union appointed doctor that he can't play anymore, medically, and that his career is over. But it does take his cooperation - if he's deciding he's going to play, not quit, the process can't even get started in the first place.

[sportscrazy]

To make the summer of 2017 reduction, he can't play more than 9 games this season.

But it's not triggered simply by a retirement of his choosing, but rather by a ruling by a league/union appointed doctor that he can't play anymore, medically, and that his career is over. But it does take his cooperation - if he's deciding he's going to play, not quit, the process can't even get started in the first place.

Let's say he plays this season, then after the year voluntarily decides to retire, but played more than 9 games. What would happen to his 2017-18 salary and going forward?

[Smitty731]

To make the summer of 2017 reduction, he can't play more than 9 games this season.

But it's not triggered simply by a retirement of his choosing, but rather by a ruling by a league/union appointed doctor that he can't play anymore, medically, and that his career is over. But it does take his cooperation - if he's deciding he's going to play, not quit, the process can't even get started in the first place.

Let's say he plays this season, then after the year voluntarily decides to retire, but played more than 9 games. What would happen to his 2017-18 salary and going forward?

Either counts in full, or they can agree to a buyout. Or he could walk away entirely and give it all up. That is extremely unlikely though. Not with the way he's fought to play so far.

[DBoys]

There are some generalities that are likely to be true here, such as:

1 Bosh is going to be paid in full, no matter what.
That's the nature of the contract MIA gave him, and there's no reason to think he would rather give the money back to Arison instead of keeping it himself.
2 The NBA doctors are very likely to be part of the equation, as to whether Bosh plays again.
No matter how much he wants to play, and even if he is willing to assume all the medical risk for such a decision, the NBA still doesn't want a player dropping dead on the court, so they do have the ability to refuse medical clearance if there's a need to do so.
3 MIA has no way to do something clever against his will and keep his salary off their books.
Sitting him won't help - he has to agree that he can't play, and be willing to retire.
4 CONCLUSION: Given Bosh's attitude, the only way that MIA will get cap relief at some point will be by the NBA docs stepping in, and keeping him off the court.
He will get his money, one way or another, it's just going to be a matter of whether it will count against the cap or not, and the only scenario in which is won't count would be for NBA docs to keep him from playing.

[ranger001]

3 MIA has no way to do something clever against his will and keep his salary off their books.
Sitting him won't help - he has to agree that he can't play, and be willing to retire.
4 CONCLUSION: Given Bosh's attitude, the only way that MIA will get cap relief at some point will be by the NBA docs stepping in, and keeping him off the court.

If he won't agree that he can't play and Miami is refusing to let him play, would Miami still be able to get a medical clearance to get his salary off the books? Let's say he can get some doctor to say he can play if he is monitored carefully, gets rest, etc.

[DBoys]

MIA has to waive him, and no buyout discount, to start the "medical retirement cap-exclusion" process. Then they make a request. And NBA docs have to approve the request.

But it has to be a retirement. If he turns back around and signs with another team after MIA waives him, and passes their physical, the NBA docs are not approving MIA's request to say he was medically retired and unable to play due to medical reasons.

This all may be moot, however. If the reports are accurate that he STILL has one or more clots, and that doesn't change, I can't see him getting approved to play anywhere, or being stupid enough to want to. That's life-threatening stuff.

[ranger001]

There are a few NHL players who play with blood clots, e.g. Tomas Fleischmann. I believe they take blood thinners then go off it just before the game.

If he does get waived then some other team can sign him for the minimum and he can go on the same treatments.

[DBoys]

There are a few NHL players who play with blood clots, e.g. Tomas Fleischmann. I believe they take blood thinners then go off it just before the game.

If he does get waived then some other team can sign him for the minimum and he can go on the same treatments.

I believe your statement that others "play WITH blood clots" is inaccurate. They return to play after having had blood clots, that have gone away, and using a blood-thinner regimen that is designed to prevent the clots from coming back. But iiuc, no one actually plays WITH blood clots.

And Bosh has blood clots. Not "had" but "has." That makes his situation completely different and life-threatening, in a way that doesn't exist with the others.

[ranger001]

Yes you are probably correct, a blood clot could travel and cause death so its likely he has to get rid of them first. But what works with others to get rid of the clots should work for him, its just a matter of when.

I think Miami is unwilling to take the risk even if he does get rid of the clots, they want a guy who can play every day and air travel does contribute to clotting. So Miami is in a tough spot, they'd like to waive him and get the clearance but they probably won't if he intends to play when his situation has stabilized.

[Smitty731]

Not that it means anything, but at Magic Media Day some of the national guys had information that there are teams in China who will clear him right away, no questions asked.

That doesn't do anything towards his or the Heat's situation as far as the cap goes.

There are also credible reports that Bosh is determined to find a doctor who says he can play. Then he'll pit his doctor against the NBA doctors and it will end up a messy fight. I hope for his sake that someone gets to him and makes him understand it isn't worth risking his life over.

[DBoys]

" But what works with others to get rid of the clots should work for him, its just a matter of when."

Every human body is a bit different from the others. And while your words are nice in theory, the reality is that "what works for others" is not guaranteed to work for everyone else, and indeed has NOT worked for Bosh. The clots keep coming back, when he does the process that he says can successfully keep them from being there. That's the uncomfortable but very real truth that Bosh refuses to face, but that MIA won't ignore.

There's a high-risk situation here that is like walking a tightrope. But either way he goes - less blood-thinners, or more - causes a life-threatening problem of some sort, in regards to his playing.

If he takes blood thinners while playing, and somehow gets a concussion in a fall, or even a bad bruise in the wrong place, he could die from internal bleeding.
And if he lessens the intake of blood thinners to lessen the bleeding risk in games, and that reduction means there's not enough blood thinners in his system at all times to keep the clots from forming, he could die from the clots.

At this point, I don't even think he's proving some sort of macho thing by his stubbornness in trying to play. It's just pure stupidity. He has enough money to last 10 lifetimes, and he's still young enough to enjoy life and family for many years ahead, and risking his life for nothing of real value is just dumb.

[Tfence92]

if Bosh misses the time and all his money comes off the books, does that put Miami under the cap and thus they'd lose all their holds and exceptions?

[DBoys]

In general, yes that would be the case. The salary drops off the team's cap immediately when the request is granted for a medical retirement cap exclusion, with all the ramifications that entails. But in regards to MIA, they probably don't have any holds or exceptions on their Team Salary at this point anyhow. They cleared all that out to get cap room for HW

[Smitty731]

In general, yes that would be the case. The salary drops off the team's cap immediately when the request is granted for a medical retirement cap exclusion, with all the ramifications that entails. But in regards to MIA, they probably don't have any holds or exceptions on their Team Salary at this point anyhow. They cleared all that out to get cap room for HW

This is correct. Miami has no exceptions left. They lost everything to go under the cap to make their moves this summer. Not that it would matter in this example, but they've also used their Room Exception as well. They used it to sign Dion Waiters.

For next year, it would be significant as Miami project to have some cap space, but not a ton, with Bosh on the books. If he is removed, they jump by over $25 million and all of a sudden are players for a max FA.

[jaywalkszzz]

Albert Nahmad wrote on heathoops.com : http://heathoops.com/2016/09/pat-riley-says-chris-boshs-career-is-probably-over/#more-29745

“...the Heat could waive Bosh after March 1st. By delaying until after March 1, the Heat would lose its ability to use the $16 million at the trade deadline, but would ensure that Bosh would be ineligible for post-season play. By that time, no team will have 25 games remaining on its regular season schedule either. While it remains decidedly unlikely that Bosh would return to play for any NBA team this season anyway, the Heat would therefore ensure that Bosh cannot “prove the doctor wrong” and return his salary to the Heat’s cap until, at the very earliest, the start of the 2017-18 season. By that time, the Heat will have potentially already have capitalized on the $25.3 million in freed-up summer of 2017 cap space. The most it could do at that point is create a massive luxury tax bill, something of which the Heat will surely be cognizant."

Assuming the Heat waive Bosh after March 1 and Bosh gets cleared to play, if a team were to sign Bosh for the 2017-18 season, would it be possible for him to play 1 second per game for 25 games just so that the Heat’s cap relief would be reversed and Bosh’s cap hits would be restored? In other words, can a team sub Bosh in for 1 second, call a time-out, and sub Bosh out after 1 second, repeat that for 24 more games, and be considered “proving the doctor wrong” by “playing” 25 games?

A team that may have motive to do this would be a non-luxury-taxpaying team. It would weaken Miami’s cap flexibility in 2018-19 (potentially thru 2021-22 if stretched), but would also increase the revenue sharing fund for non-luxury-taxpaying teams thanks to a potential massive luxury tax bill for the Heat.

[DBoys]

Albert missed an important point, that ties into the most important issue about the Bosh situation. If Bosh continues to play in the league, right after getting waived by MIA, or very shortly thereafter, it's a slam dunk the Heat won't get any cap relief, ever.

The 25 game thing is the mechanism to RESTORE the cap hit to MIA's cap. But that only is possible if it gets approved in the first place, and it's not as simple as simply waiving him and erasing him from your cap. In fact, you have to waive him first, then see what the NBA says, and the NBA is not easy to satisfy. In the past, the player had to formally retire just to start the process, and perhaps that's still the case.

[jaywalkszzz]

Albert missed an important point, that ties into the most important issue about the Bosh situation. If Bosh continues to play in the league, right after getting waived by MIA, or very shortly thereafter, it's a slam dunk the Heat won't get any cap relief, ever.

The 25 game thing is the mechanism to RESTORE the cap hit to MIA's cap. But that only is possible if it gets approved in the first place, and it's not as simple as simply waiving him and erasing him from your cap. In fact, you have to waive him first, then see what the NBA says, and the NBA is not easy to satisfy. In the past, the player had to formally retire just to start the process, and perhaps that's still the case.

I believe Albert touched on that point in the detailed article:

"Potential Salary Cap Relief

While Bosh would be paid all of his $75.9 million even if he doesn’t play again, there is a mechanism for the Heat to clear his substantial cap hits for each of the final three seasons of the contract.

The Heat can apply to remove Bosh’s salary from its cap as early as Februrary 9, the one-year anniversary of his last game. The team could, at that point, clear his remaining salary from its cap if the Heat waives him in conjunction with a doctor who is jointly selected by the league and players association agreeing that his condition is career-ending, or severe enough that playing would subject him to medically unacceptable risk of suffering a life-threatening or permanently disabling injury or illness.

With the latest clotting issue, it seems likely that the Heat would receive such a ruling"

[DBoys]

With all due respect to Albert, who is great at this stuff, there's still contradictory thinking being used.

He said "if the Heat waives him in conjunction with a doctor who is jointly selected by the league and players association" etc ....but then with the idea that Bosh MIGHT possibly play again shortly thereafter, and discussing how MIA would want to position themselves for that possibility, it's ignoring how essentially impossible it is for that to even arise. There's some major disconnect from reality as to how severe and permanent the situation has to be perceived by the docs, to get that NBA approval in the 1st place.

The standard is extreme.

This isn't a maybe. It's docs saying he's done for good, no way he plays again (or should be allowed back in the league ever), and the idea that after such a determination he'd then be able to play again in a few weeks or even months is absurd beyond belief. What's getting lost is that if Bosh truly CAN play for another team at that point, or is even close and it's just a matter of time, MIA won't get approval.

[jaywalkszzz]

With all due respect to Albert, who is great at this stuff, there's still contradictory thinking being used.

He said "if the Heat waives him in conjunction with a doctor who is jointly selected by the league and players association" etc ....but then with the idea that Bosh MIGHT possibly play again shortly thereafter, and discussing how MIA would want to position themselves for that possibility, it's ignoring how essentially impossible it is for that to even arise. There's some major disconnect from reality as to how severe and permanent the situation has to be perceived by the docs, to get that NBA approval in the 1st place.

The standard is extreme.

This isn't a maybe. It's docs saying he's done for good, no way he plays again (or should be allowed back in the league ever), and the idea that after such a determination he'd then be able to play again in a few weeks or even months is absurd beyond belief. What's getting lost is that if Bosh truly CAN play for another team at that point, or is even close and it's just a matter of time, MIA won't get approval.

Due to HIPPA laws it’s safe to say only Bosh, his family/close friends, his lawyer(s), and his doctors know the severity of Bosh’s medical condition.

It is a sad story, but for the purpose of exploring what you call Albert’s “contradictory thinking”, let’s just assume an NBA doctor and an NBPA selected doctor agree that Bosh’s medical condition is “career-ending, or severe enough that playing would subject him to medically unacceptable risk of suffering a life-threatening or permanently disabling injury or illness”. Thus, let’s assume the Heat get approval for salary cap relief from Bosh’s salary.

Assuming the above is true, I agree that having Bosh playing again shortly thereafter is almost impossible. However, let’s again assume there is a drug that is discovered (just after the approval of the salary cap relief) that is so revolutionary that it cures or regulates Bosh’s coagulation disorder(s). According to the FDA, a drug can be approved in ~6 months if given a “Priority Review” designation; drugs that offer major advances in treatment, or provide a treatment where none existed can be given such a designation. I’m sure there’s more red-tape and regulatory agencies involved (i.e. CLIA, JAHCO, & CAP), but let’s say by February 2018, the NBA/ another doctor clears Bosh to play after such medical advances.

After all of those unlikely combination of events (hopefully there will be a treatment/drug), and if a team were to sign Bosh for the remainder of the 2017-18 season, would it be possible for him to play 1 second per game for 25 games just so that the Heat’s cap relief would be reversed and Bosh’s cap hits would be restored? In other words, can a team sub Bosh in for 1 second, call a time-out, and sub Bosh out after 1 second, repeat that for 24 more games, and be considered “proving the doctor wrong” by “playing” 25 games?

I’m not suggesting a GM or coach would be so cruel to even do that to Bosh who loves to play. I’m just curious if 1 second of “play” would be credited as 1 game of play. Of course if the drug was indeed so revolutionary and effective, a team who signs Bosh would probably play him more than 25 seconds for a season.