Desegana Diop's contract

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Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#1 » by JES12 » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:53 am

Mark Cuban was quoted saying:

"We can do whatever we want to do [in 2010]," Cuban said. "We’ll basically have Dirk [Nowitzki] and Jet [Jason Terry] on the books. Other guys can opt out and we can sign them after the fact."


I don't know if he just forgot about Diop, or if he has a trade in the works OR if he has a Buckner- like contract with an unguaranteed 3rd year.

Can you shed any light on the matter?
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#2 » by Dunkenstein » Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:02 am

You are correct. Cuban forgot about Diop who is under contract through 2012 with a PO for the 12-13 season.
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#3 » by Three34 » Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:03 am

I think it's called denial. It's a coping mechanism.
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#4 » by Dunkenstein » Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:07 am

Sham wrote:I think it's called denial. It's a coping mechanism.

So you're saying that denial is more than just a river in Africa?
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#5 » by JES12 » Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:59 pm

Dunkenstein wrote:You are correct. Cuban forgot about Diop who is under contract through 2012 with a PO for the 12-13 season.
Thanks for the info. Cuban had my hopes up there for a little bit. Not one Mav fan like the signing at the time because SG should have been addressed for that kind of money instead of C where we have Dampier. Now no one likes it because Rick is not playing him. Maybe that will change in 2010.

Once again, Thanks.
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#6 » by FGump » Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:50 pm

Dunkenstein wrote:You are correct. Cuban forgot about Diop who is under contract through 2012 with a PO for the 12-13 season.


Dunk, are we CERTAIN there are no non-guaranteed years during the term of the contract, and are we certain the PO for 12-13 does NOT have qualifying conditions attached? We know how the contract was reported, but those sorts of details sometime emerge later on, when people look closer or ask the right people the right questions.

Just wondering.
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#7 » by Dunkenstein » Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:37 pm

"In these matters the only certainty is that nothing is certain."
--Pliny the Elder (23 AD - 79 AD)

Since you apparently question my sources, why don't you ask someone you trust?
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#8 » by FGump » Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:29 pm

Peace, bro. It's Christmas. And besides, "calling you out" or questioning whether you had access to this level of info wasn't my point at all.

So let me be clearer. I've observed you have numerous sources at all kinds of levels, and it's obvious some of them have incredible access. I don't doubt that at all. But I also have observed that at times you (like the rest of us) just apparently do a quick search from the various online sources that you trust and relay that info along.

And without asking, it's not always apparent where something is coming from. So what I was asking here was in a quest for a bit of clarification: is this info you have asked of inside sources, that you know would have access to such details if they exist? Or was it based on more general sources that might not yet have the full story?

PS - And lest you think I'm being overly anal in pursuing clarification, let me say that if my old fuzzy brain isn't confusing you with others, as could always be the case :) I seem to recall in the past asking you the same sort of "I wonder if that's right, because it just seems out of whack with other things I've noticed, can you double-check and make sure" on some contract-detail-related item and then you later replying, "I went back and checked with my best sources and they gave me something different. Here's a better answer." Thanks in advance for any help.
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#9 » by Dunkenstein » Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:19 am

This info comes from reliable sources.
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#10 » by Three34 » Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:13 am

I'm certain that there are no unguaranteed years, and obviously I'm incontrovertible and unequivocally perfect and stuff like that. That good enough?
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#11 » by JES12 » Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:26 pm

Thanks guys.

I guess this means a trade with Diop is soon t come (wishful thinking, maybe).
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#12 » by FGump » Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:01 pm

Thanks for the added info< Dunk. It's much appreciated.
(And you too Sham)

You guys are great on contractual details and it's always helpful to get the full story that the clubs can't release.

JES12 wrote:Thanks guys.

I guess this means
...a trade with Diop is soon to come (wishful thinking, maybe).


In my estimation it means
...Cuban was overstating their position, for his own purposes.
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#13 » by Three34 » Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:26 pm

My tongue was in my cheek, and is pretty much permanently nailed there, but the source that I use (which isn't the league's official salary report, but the next best thing) shows it to be a classic full MLE, all guaranteed, with a player option year that you can absolutely guarantee will be exercised. And no trade kicker.
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#14 » by 2011Champs » Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:19 pm

Diop's contract is not so high in 2010 that it would keep Cuban from signing a FA. Please correct me if I am wrong, but wont the Mavs be under the cap when Dirk and Howard are off the books even with Diop's contract? Couldn't the Mavs first sign a free agent and then resign their own players just as long as they sign the FA first?
Example say the Mavs sign FA D-Wade first. Couldn't the Mavs then resign all of their current players that they have "Bird Rights" on without worrying about the cap after the FA is signed?

If this is correct thats why Cuban can do whatever as far as FA in 2010 even with Diop because he is a very small part of the total cap space.
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#15 » by coyotes_geek » Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:47 pm

No can do. Your own free agents continue to count against your cap so as to prevent that specific scenario from happening. The Mavs could clear room to sign Wade by renouncing their rights to Dirk and Howard, but that means losing their Bird rights to those guys, thus making it virtually impossible to re-sign them.
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#16 » by FGump » Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:09 pm

BLKMN22 wrote:Diop's contract is not so high in 2010 that it would keep Cuban from signing a FA. Please correct me if I am wrong, but wont the Mavs be under the cap when Dirk and Howard are off the books even with Diop's contract? Couldn't the Mavs first sign a free agent and then resign their own players just as long as they sign the FA first?
Example say the Mavs sign FA D-Wade first. Couldn't the Mavs then resign all of their current players that they have "Bird Rights" on without worrying about the cap after the FA is signed?

If this is correct thats why Cuban can do whatever as far as FA in 2010 even with Diop because he is a very small part of the total cap space.


What you are saying is what Cuban claimed. But he is either a very dumb owner as to the rules (unlikely) or he was trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes that doesn't know how the rules really work.

Because you CAN'T do what you said. That loophole doesn't exist.

It's hard for me to explain it concisely, but I'll try. Others may be able to explain it better.

In order to sign (not trade for) a high dollar (more than MLE) free agent, you have to get under the cap. And while you are trying to do so, players on your own team whose contracts have just expired eat up part of your cap, in the form of cap holds, until they actually sign a contract. This is to specifically prevent a team from doing just what you said here (which would be, to sign a couple of free agents and then to go back and use Bird rights to go far over the cap and sign their own).

So while on paper the Mavs not be over the cap, if you count in cap holds they would be. And therefore they must operate like an over-the-cap team and don't have any spending room after all.

So for example if Dirk was a free agent, until he was signed he would absorb maximum salary dollars of their cap, in order to preserve his Bird Rights. There's a scale based on prior salary, but in general there's no way to skirt the system with a slew of unsigned players and then first use cap room to sign free agents followed by going over the cap using Bird rights to re-sign your own.

As to Diop's contract, the issue discussed here was which players have ongoing contracts with the Mavs that will eat into spending room in 2010. Cuban said only Dirk and Terry, but Diop should have been included also. That still leaves them room for a major free agent if they blow off quite a few of their own, but Diop reduces their spending capacity by around 6.5M, a not insignificant amount.

Now if they want to, they can renounce their Bird rights on their own free agents, to get and use the available cap room. But once they do so, they definitely CANNOT then go back and re-ink those free agents of their own using Bird rights to bust the cap.
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#17 » by 2011Champs » Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:55 pm

Thank you for the great info. I was never clear about how that part of the salary cap works.
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#18 » by Three34 » Fri Jan 2, 2009 6:58 pm

To put it as simply as possible - if teams could do what you suggested, then everybody would. But they don't, because they can't.
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#19 » by JES12 » Sat Jan 3, 2009 8:20 am

When Cuban said opt out and resign them after the fact, I assumed he meant Dampier (to the vet minimum) and the bench players that may end up getting the min.

In 2010, Dampier is a gonner on his current contract. And the the only others in question are Terry, Diop, Howard, Barea and Dirk.

The only guaranteed contracts Dallas has are Jason Terry & Desegana Diop eating $16.35 mil.

Howard's option has to be picked up by June 30th. This is what makes him so valuble to the Mavs. Right now, we know nothing in 2010. If eveything remains the same and Cuban feels there is a player who is worth the max will sign with Dallas, We can waive him. In reality, Lebron and many other '10 free agents can sign extensions which will make us want to keep Howard. Or, let's say Wade or Amare has career altering injury, once again, we keep Howard. Or, lets say Howard becomes the next Darius Miles...We can waive him for a better fit and/or talent. SHORT AND SIMPLE, by June 2010, we will be in a better position to make a ecision than we ae now if we were to trade for, I don't know, Gerald Wallace or Stephen Jackson?

Everything said about Howard is true with Barea (on a much smaller scale).

Lets say Dallas chooses to keep Howard and Barea and are unable to trade Diop, we will have $30.00 mil tied up in Howard, Terry, Diop and Barea. To get max cap available, Dallas would have to waive the bi-annual and mid level exceptions. Taking 13 roster spots - the 5 players mentioned above -2009 1st round draft pick and = 7 spots. 7 X $473,604 (2010 rookie min) = $3.315 mil cap hold for last 7 spots. Add another 1.5 mil for our 2009 draft pick and we are set at $34.8 mil before adding Dirk and free agnts. Also, assuming th cap is 64.8 mil that same year, Dallas can agree to terms with a 17 mil max player if Dirk agrees to resign for 13 mil.

What I don't know is when exactly does Dirk need to opt out of his ETO.
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Re: Desegana Diop's contract 

Post#20 » by Three34 » Sun Jan 4, 2009 3:04 pm

Lost in all that is how you are going to get Dirk to take an $8 mil pay cut.

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