Shaun Livingston? Sorting out NBA logic ...(help!)

FGump
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,050
And1: 0
Joined: Aug 14, 2004

Shaun Livingston? Sorting out NBA logic ...(help!) 

Post#1 » by FGump » Thu Jan 8, 2009 12:48 am

Shaun Livingston signed with the Heat.

Then in quick sequence as we approached the guarantee date I read ...
1. The Heat have waived him
2. He has been traded to Memphis with cash, for a pick
3. Memphis has waived him

All of that doesn't logically fit together to me.

I'm guessing that despite its widespread reportage, the "Heat waived him" was premature.
I have no clue why the Grizz would trade for him and them jettison him via waivers almost simultaneously. Unless maybe Livingston had some sort of guaranteed money on his deal and this was Miami trying to avoid tax?

So can someone clarify what really happened and why?
LarryCoon
Rookie
Posts: 1,113
And1: 0
Joined: Aug 09, 2002
Location: Irvine, CA
Contact:

Re: Shaun Livingston? Sorting out NBA logic ...(help!) 

Post#2 » by LarryCoon » Thu Jan 8, 2009 12:51 am

Miami never actually waived him. They sent money to Memphis along with Livingston in order to get him off their books. Memphis didn't need him, and waived him (this time actually notifying the league).
Three34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 36,406
And1: 123
Joined: Sep 18, 2002

Re: Shaun Livingston? Sorting out NBA logic ...(help!) 

Post#3 » by Three34 » Thu Jan 8, 2009 1:40 am

I'm guessing that despite its widespread reportage, the "Heat waived him" was premature.


Yup.
FGump
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,050
And1: 0
Joined: Aug 14, 2004

Re: Shaun Livingston? Sorting out NBA logic ...(help!) 

Post#4 » by FGump » Thu Jan 8, 2009 1:44 am

Larry, Thanks.

So would this mean that he wasn't a non-guarantee deal? And was there any guaranteed money for next season, where this will impact the Grizz ability to spend this summer?

Or is this merely to get money already paid - under a NG contract - off of Miami's tax ledger this year?
....If so, that means Memphis doesn't have to pay any salary, and this is merely a bookkeeping adjustment, so curiosity compels me to ask what sort of cash compensation did Memphis net for the favor? And what sort of "meaningless pick with impossible restrictions" did Memphis send the other way?
Three34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 36,406
And1: 123
Joined: Sep 18, 2002

Re: Shaun Livingston? Sorting out NBA logic ...(help!) 

Post#5 » by Three34 » Thu Jan 8, 2009 1:48 am

Supposedly, Livingston was only $370,000 guaranteed.
Dunkenstein
Starter
Posts: 2,454
And1: 13
Joined: Jun 17, 2002
Location: Santa Monica, CA

Re: Shaun Livingston? Sorting out NBA logic ...(help!) 

Post#6 » by Dunkenstein » Thu Jan 8, 2009 7:17 am

The main reason that Miami was forced to get rid of Livingston revolved around Jason Richards. Miami gave Richards a minimum deal with a $50K guarantee to come to training camp. They always planned to waive him and based keeping under the tax threshold on the presumption that when they waived him, he would only count $50K against their team salary.

However, Richards got hurt in preseason. And the NBA rules require that the team continue to pay an injured player until a league-appointed doctor deems him healthy enough to play. Well, it looks like Richards won't be certified as healthy enough to play before the end of the season. So even though Miami waived him, they've got a salary hit of $797,581 for tax purposes on Richards' contract. This put them over the threshold. So as interested as they were to find out if Livingston still could play, they had to move him in order to get under the tax threshold.

Livingston was paid the amount that Sham indicated above and he had no guarantee for a second year. I don't know how much of this year's salary was guaranteed, or what kind of monetary compensation Memphis got for taking him off Miami's hands. The conditional 2012 pick is probably the usual "protected to 55" that is used in this kind of deal.
FGump
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,050
And1: 0
Joined: Aug 14, 2004

Re: Shaun Livingston? Sorting out NBA logic ...(help!) 

Post#7 » by FGump » Thu Jan 8, 2009 7:29 am

Interesting background explanation Dunk. And it is fascinating in how it explains why teams DON"T always bring a pile of prospects into training camp, even though they could get in theory be getting a free extended look at how they might fit. Thanks for sharing.
Dunkenstein
Starter
Posts: 2,454
And1: 13
Joined: Jun 17, 2002
Location: Santa Monica, CA

Re: Shaun Livingston? Sorting out NBA logic ...(help!) 

Post#8 » by Dunkenstein » Thu Jan 8, 2009 6:14 pm

FGump wrote: And what sort of "meaningless pick with impossible restrictions" did Memphis send the other way?

It turns out my assumption was correct. Ira Winderman of the South Florida Sun-Sentinel reports the pick is in fact protected through the first 55 picks.
lakerfan10770
Starter
Posts: 2,212
And1: 3
Joined: Aug 03, 2005
 

Re: Shaun Livingston? Sorting out NBA logic ...(help!) 

Post#9 » by lakerfan10770 » Thu Jan 8, 2009 6:17 pm

Dunkenstein wrote:The main reason that Miami was forced to get rid of Livingston revolved around Jason Richards. Miami gave Richards a minimum deal with a $50K guarantee to come to training camp. They always planned to waive him and based keeping under the tax threshold on the presumption that when they waived him, he would only count $50K against their team salary.

However, Richards got hurt in preseason. And the NBA rules require that the team continue to pay an injured player until a league-appointed doctor deems him healthy enough to play. Well, it looks like Richards won't be certified as healthy enough to play before the end of the season. So even though Miami waived him, they've got a salary hit of $797,581 for tax purposes on Richards' contract. This put them over the threshold. So as interested as they were to find out if Livingston still could play, they had to move him in order to get under the tax threshold.

Livingston was paid the amount that Sham indicated above and he had no guarantee for a second year. I don't know how much of this year's salary was guaranteed, or what kind of monetary compensation Memphis got for taking him off Miami's hands. The conditional 2012 pick is probably the usual "protected to 55" that is used in this kind of deal.


I am probably missing something but shouldn't Jason Richards cap cost be $442,114 since he was a rookie.
Three34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 36,406
And1: 123
Joined: Sep 18, 2002

Re: Shaun Livingston? Sorting out NBA logic ...(help!) 

Post#10 » by Three34 » Thu Jan 8, 2009 6:39 pm

The cap hit is, yes. But when calculating a team's tax number, all players who signed as free agents (i.e., not draft picks) that make less than the two-year minimum salary are counted as earning the minimum salary for a two-year veteran, even though they aren't. So Richards's $442,114 is counted as $442,114 on their cap, but $797,581 in their tax calculations.
lakerfan10770
Starter
Posts: 2,212
And1: 3
Joined: Aug 03, 2005
 

Re: Shaun Livingston? Sorting out NBA logic ...(help!) 

Post#11 » by lakerfan10770 » Thu Jan 8, 2009 7:28 pm

Sham wrote:The cap hit is, yes. But when calculating a team's tax number, all players who signed as free agents (i.e., not draft picks) that make less than the two-year minimum salary are counted as earning the minimum salary for a two-year veteran, even though they aren't. So Richards's $442,114 is counted as $442,114 on their cap, but $797,581 in their tax calculations.


That is interesting, I never knew that. I have to make an adjustment to my spreadsheet for the potential Luxury Tax payors.

Return to CBA & Business