Are these NBA agent claims true?

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Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#1 » by FGump » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:03 am

I ran across the following claims, which to me sounded incredibly overstated. But who knows? So I thought maybe someone here can elaborate.

An NBA agent on his web bio claims the following accomplishments ...

1. "He is credited with pioneering the one-year opt out ..."
2. " ...the one-year opt out enhanced player’s salaries by more than $100 million in just one year."
2. "He also initiated the innovative sign-and-trade provision ..."
3. "... the sign-and-trade is considered a groundbreaking victory for the National Basketball Players Association over the NBA."

The agent is Dan Fegan. Are any of his above claims accurate? Or did he just work within rules that the league and the union created in crafting a particular CBA, and then later claim to have invented what was in the rules? What if anything do the agents have to do with the existence of the CBA rules?
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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#2 » by LarryCoon » Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:21 pm

Hmmm...first use of the one-year opt-out I can recall was Danny Manning signing with Phoenix. The reaction to that signing was to have Bird rights ramp up over three years (Non-Bird and Early Bird after one and two years, respectively), and following that was sign-and-trade. (The '95 CBA has three-year Bird rights but not S&T.)

If Fegan was Manning's agent when he signed with Phoenix, and if Manning was the first one to take advantage of one-year Bird rights, then I guess Fegan can claim to have gotten the ball rolling for #1 & your first #2. I'm not sure who's idea your second #2 was, nor if Fegan is claiming credit for the second #2 simply as a result of #1 & your first #2 (if so, then I don't think that's appropriate). As for your #3, I not even sure if that's an accurate statement to begin with...
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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#3 » by Dunkenstein » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:49 pm

Fegan was Chris Dudley's agent when Dudley exercised the one year opt out in Portland. In fact he was Dudley's college roommate. As Larry points out in his FAQ, the Dudley deal and the Manning deal led to the institution of the three-year Bird rule.

Fegan didn't "invent" the one year opt out rule. It was a loophole that existed in the CBA at the time. But his effective use of it forced the NBA to change the rule.

While few in the league like Fegan, he is respected for his innovative and aggressive representation of his clients.
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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#4 » by FGump » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:18 pm

Thanks for the info. (And sorry about my lack of number skills.) Larry, re #3, that claim is one made by Fegan on his website, and it seemed overreaching and of dubious accuracy to me as well.
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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#5 » by Dunkenstein » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:31 am

Actually the sign and trade was invented by a small-time Cincinnati agent named Irving Seinentraide who only had ABA players as clients. He first used it to move Louie Dampier from the Kentucky Colonels to the Virginia Squires in 1973. Seinentraide also holds the patent on the red, white and blue basketball.
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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#6 » by Three34 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:41 am

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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#7 » by Dunkenstein » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:21 am

Did my mother send you that picture of me?
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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#8 » by Three34 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:26 am

Does it freak you out that I have your mother's address?
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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#9 » by Twinkie defense » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:11 am

Who was Chris Webber's agent as a rookie? Webber's one year opt-out certainly netted him many millions of dollars.
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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#10 » by d-train » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:43 am

As mentioned above, Chris Dudley was the first player to take advantage of the 1-year opt out but it wasn't a loophole or an invention of Dudley's agent. The 1-year opt out was simply allowed by the CBA at the time.

The interesting thing about the Dudley story is that the NBA tried to void his contract. Even though the CBA clearly allowed the contract, David Stern said that the contract was below market value and therefore was blatant salary cap circumvention. The case was appealed of course and the NBA lost because the CBA allowed a 1-year opt out.

Years later Dudley won another appeal against the NBA. This time the NBA was trying to block a sign and trade from the Blazers to the Knicks. Again, the sign and trade was allowed by the terms of the CBA but David Stern tried to block the trade because Dudley would carry bird rights that would allow him to sign a bigger contract with the Knicks after 1 season. Stern asserted that bird rights were a team benefit that couldn't be transferred in a sign and trade for the veteran’s minimum. But, the arbitrator ruled that bird rights were a player benefit that could only be restricted by the terms of the CBA, which specified no such restriction.
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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#11 » by Three34 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:22 pm

Did the Blazers transfer their discretionary right to determine which players are fit to play in NBA games as a part of that sign and trade?
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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#12 » by d-train » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:17 pm

Interesting you would look for similarities between the Dudley appeals and the upcoming Miles appeal. I believe there are some. Notice David Stern’s willingness to attempt to rewrite the terms of the CBA even before the ink is dried.
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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#13 » by FGump » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:13 am

d-train wrote:... and the upcoming Miles appeal.


Are there also fairy godmothers and purple unicorns in your world?
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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#14 » by d-train » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:14 am

According to Larry Miller the Blazers have given up the idea of appealing. There will be a story in one of the Portland papers in the next couple of weeks.
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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#15 » by FGump » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:23 pm

d-train wrote:According to Larry Miller the Blazers have given up the idea of appealing. There will be a story in one of the Portland papers in the next couple of weeks.


That's your view. Mine is still as it always was.

Which is, the Blazers gave up the "idea of appealing" about 3 months ago, ie once the heat of the moment died down in the early spring.

This has NOT been an issue the Blazers intended to re-raise - they knew the rules had been appropriately applied on the cap angle. At the most, they were waiting apprehensively to see if there would be any PENALTY they would be suffering for their bullying email, from blowback from the union, other owners, or the league. And this signals apparently everyone's going to play the "no harm no foul" game and go on.
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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#16 » by Dunkenstein » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:31 pm

d-train wrote:According to Larry Miller the Blazers have given up the idea of appealing. There will be a story in one of the Portland papers in the next couple of weeks.

Wow. The dead owner of the Jazz is making announcements about what the Blazers are going to do. That's pretty cool.
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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#17 » by d-train » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:55 am

FGump wrote:
d-train wrote:According to Larry Miller the Blazers have given up the idea of appealing. There will be a story in one of the Portland papers in the next couple of weeks.


That's your view. Mine is still as it always was.

Which is, the Blazers gave up the "idea of appealing" about 3 months ago, ie once the heat of the moment died down in the early spring.

This has NOT been an issue the Blazers intended to re-raise - they knew the rules had been appropriately applied on the cap angle. At the most, they were waiting apprehensively to see if there would be any PENALTY they would be suffering for their bullying email, from blowback from the union, other owners, or the league. And this signals apparently everyone's going to play the "no harm no foul" game and go on.

I don't know when the Blazers decided not to pursue the matter. Maybe the article will have some new information.

The only question I have is did the Blazers screw up by not waiting another year before waiving Miles. If the Blazers waited until April of 2009 to waive Miles, they would have been guaranteed the cap space this July when the top FA's will sign new contracts. And, Blazers would probably gain luxury tax relief for the 09/10 season since no other teams would have any incentive to play Miles in 10 games other than a little over $1 million, which doesn't seem like enough money to disrupt a team.
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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#18 » by Three34 » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:58 am

Well now why the hell did I bring that up.

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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#19 » by Dunkenstein » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:58 am

Sham wrote:Well now why the hell did I bring that up.

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The problem's not yours. It's FGump's for responding to the cockroach (that is what his avatar is, isn't it) as if he were a reasonable human being. Then we get an endless pissing match between two guys who are each are unwilling to let the other have the last word.

As I keep saying. IGNORE HIM!!!!
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Re: Are these NBA agent claims true? 

Post#20 » by FGump » Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:51 am

Dunk, it's not MY problem. I like to keep poking a stick at the loons when they refuse to learn. And you must as well ...despite your admonition to everyone else to stop replying and trying to have the last word, you yourself keep coming back again to give various versions of your own "last reply" over and over to the very same topic. Addicted? :)

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