New front page

[Andrew McCeltic]

I don't mind it, but like most I'm here for the boards. Typing this in Safari on iPhone and it's great, but the RealGM app isn't working and needs an update.

For the boards, I'm a fan of adding "Technical Fouls" as an option next to And 1's, and it would be great to be able to tag people in posts without quoting them, like @andy582.

And while you're making all these changes, the trade checker could be improved, too- before/after payroll, slots for TPEs and picks.. The trade checker is what brought me to this site, the boards kept me around. Right now ESPN's trade machine looks better.

[tsherkin]

The mobile site is awful.

The last post quick jump button is gone, my quick mod tools are more annoying to access (and appear to be gone), the last post indicator is gone, it's chunky and hard to navigate...

This is not a good update; I would greatly appreciate the ability to not use the mobile site and use the full version instead, as that is a far better experience.

Edit: Taking away the page quick buttons, also bad. Making me not able to access user post history from their profile anymore, also not good.

[ReturnofMVP3]

The forums need a redesign more than the first page, most of the active users here are going to the forums. They will use the wiretap headline feature (in the forums) to click a news story. I maybe go on the front page every now and then. I have no real issue with the layout itself I just think priorities were backwards.

The sites were all redesigned at the same time, but we aren't rolling out the changes all at once. The forums in particular will need scheduled downtime because of the required database changes, so we are going to wait a little bit before rolling the changes out.

I was hoping that was the case (the forums need a huge overhaul imo), the reason I brought it up was because in the wiretap headline about the front page redesign I read this:

The forums will be released in the coming days, which will be more subtle than the rest of the redesign and focuses mainly on improving usability.
Read more at http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... BtKqSdy.99

I'm hoping it is bigger!

[bballcool34]

worse on mobile, can't see full screen or jump to last page. I don't use the realgm app because that tends to be behind with posts.

[dream34]

It totally minimizes the message boards, which is my main reason for coming here. Make it stahp.

How does it minimize the message boards? There is a link to the forums at the top at all times.

[dream34]

So, from a desktop platform browsing perspective...

I can't say I enjoy the new look. The color scheme, the layout, it looks choppy and not so well designed.

Love the function of the forums, but the front page is not my favorite thing. Responsive design is nice and everything, but frankly, I don't use TapaTalk, and I wouldn't use a mobile version of RealGM if given the option, because mobile sites usually suck a lot of ass.

The front page shouldn't be the same as a mobile site, they should be on separate sub-domains and designed differently. The mobile site should also be optional, FWIW, because a lot of the times, they suck compared to the normal site. I am forever glad that b-ref.com gives you the option to drop a ?mobile=false in the URL to avoid their horrendously bad mobile site.

The RealGM main page now looks like the Wiretap, which isn't a good thing. It should contained to menus for neatness and ease of navigation. That bottom frame is also expanded far too much.

I love that RealGM is constantly adapting and trying to improve, but this one was a step back, I think.

Our main goal is to have everything accessible on the desktop version EASILY accessible on the mobile version. So a lot of effort went in to making sure the mobile version doesn't suck.

[dream34]

I really dislike responsive web design in general. It creates a less consistent experience between PC & mobile; 'responsive' is currently a big buzzword in web design but IMO it's a fad that will inevitably be recognized for the farce that it is. Modern mobile web browsers have adapted completely in terms of rendering web pages as they would render on a PC, they already respond to web pages such that the pages don't have to respond to the browser.

When on a responsive site, for me at least, it's like going back in time to watered-down WAP websites. Maybe the new result is more intuitive to those who only browse on mobile or who have yet to grasp the concept of pinch to zoom, or who are not sophisticated enough to know how to edit their browser display settings, but it is less intuitive, at the very least, in the sense that the re-formatting results in a different layout than I am used to, and suddenly I have to familiarize myself with multiple versions of a site. Not to mention it sucks not being able to zoom, and such.

I disagree strongly that it's simply a fad. More and more people are browsing the web on small devices, so it is more important than ever to cater to them and make sure you content is available to everyone on all devices.

[rcfc1]

It totally minimizes the message boards, which is my main reason for coming here. Make it stahp.

How does it minimize the message boards? There is a link to the forums at the top at all times.

It took me a bit to figure this out (found it today, don't know why I didn't see it before). It's easy to find and gets me right there. My complaints are quickly waning.

[dream34]

Not crazy about it. Where are the notifications and "My Posts"?

MyPosts are now organized under your username. Click on it to see a few options.

[tsherkin]

I disagree strongly that it's simply a fad. More and more people are browsing the web on small devices, so it is more important than ever to cater to them and make sure you content is available to everyone on all devices.

This is true. An iPhone is a very different device than a desktop, or even a tablet. A savvy system of responsive design isn't a bad thing, or even a secondary setup designed to service mobile devices, that's not a trend. We're moving away from a lot of home users with desktops, gamers and graphics/web design professionals aside; most people don't have need for the sort of power inherent to that sort of machine, and already have a phone. A tablet, or just the phone itself, that's what most people need, so a mobile design system is very much the future of broad-reaching content.

The key, however, is to supply a desktop version that takes advantage of the desktop platform, and not to remove or inconveniently rearrange features on the mobile version that make life more difficult.

Our main goal is to have everything accessible on the desktop version EASILY accessible on the mobile version. So a lot of effort went in to making sure the mobile version doesn't suck.

the aesthetic of it, I'll get over. I think it's flat, blocky and not well-arranged, but that, I can get over. I am almost never on the front page anyway, almost always in the forums. But as a mod in particular, I find certain things about the re-arrangement or removal of features particularly vexing, because there wasn't really a sound reason to make certain changes, you know what I mean?

For me, this was not a positive change, because it provides no tangible benefit and made my life more difficult at the same time.

[dream34]

It totally minimizes the message boards, which is my main reason for coming here. Make it stahp.

How does it minimize the message boards? There is a link to the forums at the top at all times.

It took me a bit to figure this out (found it today, don't know why I didn't see it before). It's easy to find and gets me right there. My complaints are quickly waning.

Thanks for the follow up. The initial wave of concern seemed to be that it was taking away from the forums - which wasn't our intent and took us by surprise. I think there was just in initial shock period to the change and now everything is being better received now that everyone is finding out where everything is.

[dream34]

The mobile site is awful.

The last post quick jump button is gone, my quick mod tools are more annoying to access (and appear to be gone), the last post indicator is gone, it's chunky and hard to navigate...

This is not a good update; I would greatly appreciate the ability to not use the mobile site and use the full version instead, as that is a far better experience.

Edit: Taking away the page quick buttons, also bad. Making me not able to access user post history from their profile anymore, also not good.

- You can click on the time stamp to go straight to the last post.
- Quick page buttons and user search have been added back

[threrf23]

I disagree strongly that it's simply a fad. More and more people are browsing the web on small devices, so it is more important than ever to cater to them and make sure you content is available to everyone on all devices.

The point is content is already available to everyone on all devices. And those devices already respond to the content in order to make it easily accessible and viewable (and they usually give users a choice regarding how content is formatted to their screen). As the devices and their browsers continue to evolve, responsive web design serves no purpose other than to render device/browser features useless. Like, now when I visit RealGM in portrait mode on my phone, I can no longer view the wiretap atop the forum, I can no longer zoom to make text larger (ETA apparently I can zoom, many responsive sites don't support zooming), etcetera.

So I'll view RealGM in landscape mode, now. No biggie. I guess it gives people in my shoes a choice to choose the view they want simply by choosing the orientation of their screen. I generally like the other changes to the site.

People are going to keep browsing the web on small devices, obviously (and I am not the average here, I rock a 7" tablet as my phone). But I'm kinda just saying that responsive web design is to future web design what Netbooks were to Tablets. It's a knee-jerk esque reaction to trends that people profit off of. In theory it makes the web designer's job easily because there is now no need to create a separate mobile site, and in theory it makes user experience more consistent than if there were two outright versions of a site. But it doesn't and/or won't improve user experience much if at all moving forward, IMO. It is still ideal to simply have one site that is equally use-able on all devices without requiring any kind of re-formatting (other than maybe percentage-based resizing), and that goal is being side-stepped. That's all.

[dream34]

I disagree strongly that it's simply a fad. More and more people are browsing the web on small devices, so it is more important than ever to cater to them and make sure you content is available to everyone on all devices.

This is true. An iPhone is a very different device than a desktop, or even a tablet. A savvy system of responsive design isn't a bad thing, or even a secondary setup designed to service mobile devices, that's not a trend. We're moving away from a lot of home users with desktops, gamers and graphics/web design professionals aside; most people don't have need for the sort of power inherent to that sort of machine, and already have a phone. A tablet, or just the phone itself, that's what most people need, so a mobile design system is very much the future of broad-reaching content.

The key, however, is to supply a desktop version that takes advantage of the desktop platform, and not to remove or inconveniently rearrange features on the mobile version that make life more difficult.

Our main goal is to have everything accessible on the desktop version EASILY accessible on the mobile version. So a lot of effort went in to making sure the mobile version doesn't suck.

the aesthetic of it, I'll get over. I think it's flat, blocky and not well-arranged, but that, I can get over. I am almost never on the front page anyway, almost always in the forums. But as a mod in particular, I find certain things about the re-arrangement or removal of features particularly vexing, because there wasn't really a sound reason to make certain changes, you know what I mean?

For me, this was not a positive change, because it provides no tangible benefit and made my life more difficult at the same time.

As always I appreciate the feedback. I'm a desktop user myself so I want the best possible experience there. We go through the same rounds of feedback with every change we make. An initial period of disgust, then it becomes liked, and then we get in trouble again for changing it. I think you'll like it after a bit. It's still early.

[RIPskaterdude]

The app no longer works with the site

[Rasho Brezec]

It totally minimizes the message boards, which is my main reason for coming here. Make it stahp.

How does it minimize the message boards? There is a link to the forums at the top at all times.

Yeah, that's not a good thing. It takes up valuable space and you have to scroll like a madman to read everything. That fixed header is horrible.

EDIT: Sorry, you two were talking about something else. I'm talking about this:

[molepharmer]

With regards to the forums and thread posting - I'm not a fan of the new look but understand more changes are supposedly coming. With that said:

i) I'd put the 'quick reply' box below the next page advance (i.e. 1,2,3,4...). There's far more people wanting to go to the next thread page, than are going to add a reply. Granted the extra scrolling needed to get to the next page is merely an inconvenience but still seems inefficient with the current setup for the overwhelming majority of readers.

ii) Font size of the thread title within each post seems unusually large given the much smaller size of the actual post text. Besides, I'd think most people when they enter a thread don't need to be reminded what thread it is in every single post.

iii) Active url's in posts are hard to see. That is, the unless you hover over the actual text, you could easily miss them. Please go back to making them in blue text so they're easily recognizable.

[Laimbeer]

Not crazy about it. Where are the notifications and "My Posts"?

MyPosts are now organized under your username. Click on it to see a few options.

Thanks.

As I've used it a bit, my biggest objection would be getting such a large header when surfing between forums.

[tsherkin]

As always I appreciate the feedback. I'm a desktop user myself so I want the best possible experience there. We go through the same rounds of feedback with every change we make. An initial period of disgust, then it becomes liked, and then we get in trouble again for changing it. I think you'll like it after a bit. It's still early.

My thoughts on that subject:

Spoiler:

Hmmm. I'm still bitter over the last round of changes that made things less convenient for me, mostly from the POV of a moderator. The aesthetic of the site, I'll always get over because I don't come here to see something pretty. If the text is in roughly the same space and semi-legible, I will generally be alright. For me, though, functionality is key and a lot of the new changes make life more difficult or have actively removed features that I used regularly or semi-regularly, so those are things to which I'll not come around, you know?

So, TL;DR, I will not like it after a bit; it's an extension of the same things with which I disagreed during the last round. It makes life harder as a moderator from a mobile perspective, and embodies most of the things I dislike about the way most people approach responsive design... and it doesn't offer me the option to use a full desktop site instead of an all-device site.

As far as the aesthetic, I will say only one thing: the top bar bothers me; it's too large, it's full of stuff I never use and it forces me to scroll more than I want to in order to reach the portion of the site about which I care: the forums. That's non-ideal, particularly since the bulk of what is offered there has nothing to do with basketball. I get trying to expand the scope of the site and everything, but it's frustrating that the core offering of the site is, in essence, minimized and made more difficult to reach.

I like the notion: the principle of making things better for the mobile experience is necessary, given the proliferation of mobile browsing devices. That makes sense. I just wish you guys would stop and think, maybe poll the mod team about some of the features you intend to move/reframe/remove and such like, because it's been consistently irritating as the forums have gone upgrades. Some of the stuff is great, I mean load times and the like are improving, I know you guys upgrade back-end to handle increasing traffic, you listen and seriously consider the other upgrades we like (the spoiler button I was championing for years being a key example that hits home for me) and the like. You listen, you try to think ahead, these are cool things. And occasionally, when I piss and moan about features you guys have bunged up in the course of your upgrades, or intentionally taken down with the intent of redeploying, you listen, which is awesome.

But yeah, this isn't about a cycle of adjustment for me: there are things about these last couple of update rounds that have made life far more annoying as a moderator when I'm on a mobile platform.

[Pharaoh]

The app no longer works with the site

Having the same issue but when I tried to quote and reply Real GM needed me to log in...could that be why the app didn't work?

Guess I'll find out in 2 minutes...though if the app doesn't work I probably won't be back today