Nuggets Sought Two First Rounders For Ty Lawson At Deadline

Post #1 » by **RealGM Wiretap** » Fri Apr 3, 2015 4:42 pm

The Denver Nuggets discussed trades involving Ty Lawson at the deadline and sources said they sought multiple first round picks.

The Utah Jazz will own a lottery pick and could include another asset to move the needle for the Nuggets to trade Lawson.

Lawson is just 27 and has experience playing at high altitude.

The Sacramento Kings and Boston Celtics could also make a play for Lawson.

Via Zach Lowe/Grantland

Wonderllama · Post #2 » by **Wonderllama** » Fri Apr 3, 2015 5:33 pm

Don't think anyone is that desperate for a point guard these days. They got lucky with Mozgov because the Cavs WERE desperate. Plus, Lawson has been finding himself in trouble outside the court.

They will get one first rounder and they will like it.

HotelVitale · Post #3 » by **HotelVitale** » Fri Apr 3, 2015 6:10 pm

Wonderllama wrote:Don't think anyone is that desperate for a point guard these days. They got lucky with Mozgov because the Cavs WERE desperate. Plus, Lawson has been finding himself in trouble outside the court.

Giving up two not-great 1s rounders for an all-star level player isn't being 'desperate.' It wouldn't be desperate if the Jazz made a play, for instance; their own pick won't be top-10 and they could throw in Rodney Hood to get another pick in the 20s. That doesn't seem like an overpay to get a guy like Lawson, who would immediately push them up a notch in the west. Giving up a top-6 pick and another lotto pick would be desperate.

The_Hater · Post #4 » by **The_Hater** » Fri Apr 3, 2015 6:32 pm

Wonderllama wrote:Don't think anyone is that desperate for a point guard these days. They got lucky with Mozgov because the Cavs WERE desperate. Plus, Lawson has been finding himself in trouble outside the court.

They will get one first rounder and they will like it.

It's not being desperate, Lawson is very good, has a decent contract and is only 27. And while not every team needs a PG more than a handful still do. However it doesn't make sense for a lottery team to make a move like that at the trade deadline. I could see Lawson being moved this summer.

TdotRap4Lyfe · Post #5 » by **TdotRap4Lyfe** » Fri Apr 3, 2015 6:42 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
Wonderllama wrote:Don't think anyone is that desperate for a point guard these days. They got lucky with Mozgov because the Cavs WERE desperate. Plus, Lawson has been finding himself in trouble outside the court.

Giving up two not-great 1s rounders for an all-star level player isn't being 'desperate.' It wouldn't be desperate if the Jazz made a play, for instance; their own pick won't be top-10 and they could throw in Rodney Hood to get another pick in the 20s. That doesn't seem like an overpay to get a guy like Lawson, who would immediately push them up a notch in the west. Giving up a top-6 pick and another lotto pick would be desperate.

Mozgov isn't an "all-star level player," he is a good situation role player. He fell into a good situation in Cleveland, he wasn't extraordinary in either NYK or in Denver.

HotelVitale · Post #6 » by **HotelVitale** » Fri Apr 3, 2015 8:24 pm

TdotRap4Lyfe wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:
Wonderllama wrote:Don't think anyone is that desperate for a point guard these days. They got lucky with Mozgov because the Cavs WERE desperate. Plus, Lawson has been finding himself in trouble outside the court.

Giving up two not-great 1s rounders for an all-star level player isn't being 'desperate.' It wouldn't be desperate if the Jazz made a play, for instance; their own pick won't be top-10 and they could throw in Rodney Hood to get another pick in the 20s. That doesn't seem like an overpay to get a guy like Lawson, who would immediately push them up a notch in the west. Giving up a top-6 pick and another lotto pick would be desperate.

Mozgov isn't an "all-star level player," he is a good situation role player. He fell into a good situation in Cleveland, he wasn't extraordinary in either NYK or in Denver.

The post is about Lawson, I didn't mention Mozgov. Lawson's obviously a much more valuable player than Mozgov on the open market.

artsncrafts · Post #7 » by **artsncrafts** » Fri Apr 3, 2015 9:31 pm

Sweet! Raps can get 3 First rounders for Lowry!

bj2323 · Post #8 » by **bj2323** » Fri Apr 3, 2015 10:08 pm

point guard might be the easiest position to fill in the NBA

Revived · Post #9 » by **Revived** » Fri Apr 3, 2015 10:15 pm

Suns got 2 first rd picks for Dragic who is much older and on an expiring contract.

Denver should be able to get this easily for Lawson.

Fresh360Waves · Post #10 » by **Fresh360Waves** » Fri Apr 3, 2015 10:24 pm

Hm. Wonder if the Lakers still have an interest also...

Kevin Johnson · Post #11 » by **Kevin Johnson** » Fri Apr 3, 2015 10:37 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
Wonderllama wrote:Don't think anyone is that desperate for a point guard these days. They got lucky with Mozgov because the Cavs WERE desperate. Plus, Lawson has been finding himself in trouble outside the court.

Giving up two not-great 1s rounders for an all-star level player isn't being 'desperate.' It wouldn't be desperate if the Jazz made a play, for instance; their own pick won't be top-10 and they could throw in Rodney Hood to get another pick in the 20s. That doesn't seem like an overpay to get a guy like Lawson, who would immediately push them up a notch in the west. Giving up a top-6 pick and another lotto pick would be desperate.

All-Star PGs - Curry, Paul, Westbrook, Lillard
Notch Below = Parker, Conley, Bledsoe

That's 7 PGs above Lawson. Considering that there other decent guards like Rubio, Jrue, etc who people can argue are as as good as Lawson, on what planet is Lawson a all-star level player? And in a point guard heavy league, there are young point guards coming up every year. Not to mention, Lawson has raised some red flags with the off-court troubles he's had this year.

HotelVitale · Post #12 » by **HotelVitale** » Fri Apr 3, 2015 11:06 pm

Kevin Johnson wrote:All-Star PGs - Curry, Paul, Westbrook, Lillard
Notch Below = Parker, Conley, Bledsoe
That's 7 PGs above Lawson. Considering that there other decent guards like Rubio, Jrue, etc who people can argue are as as good as Lawson, on what planet is Lawson a all-star level player? And in a point guard heavy league, there are young point guards coming up every year. Not to mention, Lawson has raised some red flags with the off-court troubles he's had this year.

Not sure what you're arguing. Lawson's last two years he's posted 17/9 with solid efficiency. He's a great shot creator, he's third in the league in assists and first in Asst/TO, and he's been a great playoff performer every years he's been there. He's also 27 years old, so he probably has at least 5 years of peak playing left. I'm not anything close to a Nuggets fan but it's not clear to me why anyone would argue that package isn't worth a couple of mid-first round picks.

It's true that there are some PGs better than him. But each of the guys you mentioned would easily fetch a couple of mid-firsts. Jrue brought back a #6 pick and another lotto pick, and he's not as good as Lawson. (There were extenuating circumstances--Jrue was super young and they wanted to pair him with AD--but you get the point.) Brandon Knight, who's significantly worse than Lawson, just fetched a likely top-10 pick and some 1st-round level assets (Plumlee and Tyler Ennis). If you're just arguing that he's not an all-star or a MVP-level player, thanks for the contribution. If you think he's not a good player, then I'll have to doubt you've seen much of him.

HotelVitale · Post #13 » by **HotelVitale** » Fri Apr 3, 2015 11:13 pm

Also, it seems like you're a Suns fans and I don't want to derail the thread, but I don't think there's any way that Bledsoe is clearly better than Lawson. Bledsoe has superior athleticism and plays tougher defense, but he doesn't have anything close to Lawson's level of facilitation and overall offensive IQ. I'd be willing to put them in the same tier but there's no way he's obviously and unquestionably better. (BTW, I'm not a fan of either team and have no particular like/dislike for either player.)

deeps6x · Post #14 » by **deeps6x** » Sat Apr 4, 2015 3:14 am

A Lawson trade could really help the Raptors in next year's draft, if both Denver and the Knicks suck. Fingers crossed Lawson gets traded for two first round picks.

2thehoopand1 · Post #15 » by **2thehoopand1** » Sat Apr 4, 2015 8:56 am

I can't see a team willing to trade two potential lottery first round picks for just Lawson.

olive_triangurl · Post #16 » by **olive_triangurl** » Sat Apr 4, 2015 12:51 pm

Celtics already have Zeke.

MitchB3 · Post #17 » by **MitchB3** » Sat Apr 4, 2015 2:25 pm

2thehoopand1 wrote:I can't see a team willing to trade two potential lottery first round picks for just Lawson.

Agreed. If they had package, Lawson with a Faried or Wilson Chandler, then I wouldn't mind it, but to ask for two first rounders just for Lawson; as KG said it HELL NAH.

HotelVitale · Post #18 » by **HotelVitale** » Sat Apr 4, 2015 4:10 pm

MitchB3 wrote:
2thehoopand1 wrote:I can't see a team willing to trade two potential lottery first round picks for just Lawson.

Agreed. If they had package, Lawson with a Faried or Wilson Chandler, then I wouldn't mind it, but to ask for two first rounders just for Lawson; as KG said it HELL NAH.

Way overestimating the worth of a first rounder.The most likely outcome for a pick in the teens is a low-level rotation player--someone like Kendall Marshall or Tyler Zeller. If the pick is in the 20s, the most likely outcome is an end-of-roster guy--like Solomon Hill or Reggie Bullock. There's a small chance you end up with a starting-quality player (or even an all-star) but it's slim and it goes down as you get further into the end of the first round.

Lawson is already almost the best case scenario for a mid-to-late first. By my count, there's about a 6-8% chance you'll end up with a guy at his level or better when picking past the top 10. In other words, setting aside age for a minute, you're arguing that it's crazy to consider trading two 6% chances for a 100% chance.

2thehoopand1 wrote:I can't see a team willing to trade two potential lottery first round picks for just Lawson.

How did you feel about the Heat giving up two firsts for Dragic? Didn't seem like anyone second guessed that, even though (as someone else said) Dragic is several years older, isn't demonstrably better, and doesn't have Lawson's record of playoff success.

StunnaStan · Post #19 » by **StunnaStan** » Sat Apr 4, 2015 4:42 pm

Denver really dropped the ball with this one. when your a general manager trying to execute a trade, theres a multitude of factors that need to be considered which denver seems to bypass regularly now. one of those factors is how a players stock could be higher/lower than usual due to circumstances with their respective teams. as we see, teams valued jrue holiday averaging 17 and 8 with all star crudentials over lawson averaging 18 and 9 with a top ast/to ratio.

while i believe that lawson is better than holiday, i should acknowledge that sam hinkie (the sixers gm) is better than tim conolly (nuggets gm). they both got hired at the same time and had a multitude of players brought in by the previous gms. one 1 side, you see philly had a vision from the get go and decided that they wanted to reconstruct their roster with players THEY felt would fit into what theyre trying to do. next season its possible for philly to have 4-7 1st rd picks all on roster.

on the flip side, tim conolly gets hired and has about 6 to 7 players that were actually masai ujiri players which he brought it. his first move was then to acquire the shooting guard(AA) in which masai himself brought in and traded away. half way through season 2, tim conolly is now realizing what the last gm had probably already come to terms with, this team isnt built to win right now. he then trades the shooting guard for his 2nd time in his denver career which shows that he knew he messed up. and whatdya know, denver acquires will barton who actually shows some promise.

what denver is doing is the equivalent of trying to salvage a sunken ship. tc showed some promise by drafting nurkic and getting wb. why doesnt he just blow up this team full of players which he didnt bring in himself and just make a roster than fits what hes trying to do while his stint in denver is still going on.

2thehoopand1 · Post #20 » by **2thehoopand1** » Sat Apr 4, 2015 11:57 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
MitchB3 wrote:
2thehoopand1 wrote:I can't see a team willing to trade two potential lottery first round picks for just Lawson.

Agreed. If they had package, Lawson with a Faried or Wilson Chandler, then I wouldn't mind it, but to ask for two first rounders just for Lawson; as KG said it HELL NAH.

Way overestimating the worth of a first rounder.The most likely outcome for a pick in the teens is a low-level rotation player--someone like Kendall Marshall or Tyler Zeller. If the pick is in the 20s, the most likely outcome is an end-of-roster guy--like Solomon Hill or Reggie Bullock. There's a small chance you end up with a starting-quality player (or even an all-star) but it's slim and it goes down as you get further into the end of the first round.

Lawson is already almost the best case scenario for a mid-to-late first. By my count, there's about a 6-8% chance you'll end up with a guy at his level or better when picking past the top 10. In other words, setting aside age for a minute, you're arguing that it's crazy to consider trading two 6% chances for a 100% chance.

2thehoopand1 wrote:I can't see a team willing to trade two potential lottery first round picks for just Lawson.

How did you feel about the Heat giving up two firsts for Dragic? Didn't seem like anyone second guessed that, even though (as someone else said) Dragic is several years older, isn't demonstrably better, and doesn't have Lawson's record of playoff success.

Neither of those picks for Dragic have potential to be lottery picks & they aren't back to back 1st rounders. Hate to say it teams are going be weary of Lawson and will question if he stay out of trouble. Maybe your right and Lawson's worth two 1st round picks I wouldn't be the GM making the call Denver pretty much.