Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming'

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Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#1 » by RealGM Wiretap » Thu May 18, 2017 4:52 pm

Owner Wyc Grousbeck indicated the Boston Celtics are unlikely to trade away the top pick in June's draft.


"I think these picks are very, very valuable," said Grousbeck. "You think of it, if you’re going to trade this pick as part of a package for an established star [who is] making max [money], you’ve got to send max money out the door, as well. You’ve got to send more guys along. So, this guy coming back better be the second coming. What’s more, he’s going to be halfway through his career, whoever he is. And he’s going to be paid, right now, a ton of money, which restricts you in other ways.


"If you can get a really good guy with this pick, you’ve got him. You can build with him. You can grow with him. You can coach him up. And you get to max money eventually — five, six years down the road — but it’s a totally different thing.


"So, these picks are really valuable in today’s NBA. And so our intention would be to make the pick unless someone blows us away with an offer. That’s the way I would probably think about it."


The Celtics are widely expected to select Markelle Fultz.

Via CSN New England (via ProBasketballTalk)

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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#2 » by EnriCela13 » Thu May 18, 2017 5:06 pm

That's exactly the right way to look at this. As a Knicks fan I'm hoping they trade the pick for PG or Butler so they don't become too good down the road (obviously would love if they traded it to us for Melo but that would never happen).
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#3 » by 12footrim » Thu May 18, 2017 5:15 pm

Fultz on a rookie contract and 8 or 10 years worth of control is to valuable IMO to trade. Use the cap money to try to sign Hayward or someone. With Fultz and the team they have they should be very attractive to FA's and having a rookie like that makes it possible to sign them.
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#4 » by Chi Dynasty12 » Thu May 18, 2017 5:35 pm

I think they should take Josh Jackson but that's just me
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#5 » by the_process » Thu May 18, 2017 5:41 pm

Hey Wyc, you don't need to send max money out, you just about have a max slot open come July 1st. So on that day, you send Fultz and Zeller's UNG deal to Chicago for Butler. That should work.
Top ten in draft:

Fultz, Issac, Jackson, Tatum, Ntilikina, Collins, Mitchell, Thornwell, Fox, Ball
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#6 » by smittybanton » Thu May 18, 2017 5:51 pm

As a hater, I'm thankful for this. No one in this draft is the second coming. So I'm glad they would forego opportunities to fix their front court. Johnson's a UFA, Olynyk is RFA, there's no bigs in this draft. I'm still mad at Al Horford for pulling their bacon out the pan. With swap rights over the Nets pick next year, they'll probably get Ayton or Bamba. That's when the fun starts, I guess. Sign Ibaka this year?
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#7 » by blitz41 » Thu May 18, 2017 5:52 pm

Chi Dynasty12 wrote:I think they should take Josh Jackson but that's just me


If they were anything other than 1st pick, id agree with you.
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#8 » by tocooks101 » Thu May 18, 2017 5:54 pm

smittybanton wrote:As a hater, I'm thankful for this. No one in this draft is the second coming. So I'm glad they would forego opportunities to fix their front court. Johnson's a UFA, Olynyk is RFA, there's no bigs in this draft. I'm still mad at Al Horford for pulling their bacon out the pan. With swap rights over the Nets pick next year, they'll probably get Ayton or Bamba. That's when the fun starts, I guess. Sign Ibaka this year?


Its not swap rights next year with Brooklyn, they get the pick outright.
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#9 » by smittybanton » Thu May 18, 2017 5:54 pm

tocooks101 wrote:
smittybanton wrote:As a hater, I'm thankful for this. No one in this draft is the second coming. So I'm glad they would forego opportunities to fix their front court. Johnson's a UFA, Olynyk is RFA, there's no bigs in this draft. I'm still mad at Al Horford for pulling their bacon out the pan. With swap rights over the Nets pick next year, they'll probably get Ayton or Bamba. That's when the fun starts, I guess. Sign Ibaka this year?


Its not swap rights next year with Brooklyn, they get the pick outright.


thx
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#10 » by likashing » Thu May 18, 2017 6:09 pm

Translation... I'd rather roll the dice and get either:

Bargnani/Oden/Bennett

or

Irving/KAT/Anthony Davis
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#11 » by MaxRider » Thu May 18, 2017 6:15 pm

how many PG do Celtics need?
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#12 » by SMTBSI » Thu May 18, 2017 6:37 pm

the_process wrote:Hey Wyc, you don't need to send max money out, you just about have a max slot open come July 1st. So on that day, you send Fultz and Zeller's UNG deal to Chicago for Butler. That should work.

Ignoring the question of whether the #1 would be an overpay for Butler...

We have a large amount of cap space. The optimal path, if we want to go all-in now, would be to use it to bring in one high level player as a free agent, for no/minimal outgoing assets, then consolidate additional assets to acquire a second, as Wyc suggests re: Butler. Doing it your way does save you from salary matching on Butler, but it's a Pyhrric victory, as you've incurred a significant opportunity cost by losing your ability to add that second player for "free". If you want that second guy still, it now has to be in trade, so any assets you saved by acquiring Butler the way you've suggested, will be washed out pretty easily.

Now, maybe that's just life. There's no guarantee we're going to be able to execute our plan to perfection. If we whiff on free agents, then your idea becomes a little more sound (again, ignoring whether #1 for Butler is even a good deal). But, given how I expect us to manage our cap, your suggestion is not a strong rebuttal to what Wyc has said here. It takes an already very dubious value proposition (#1 for Butler), and heaps a ton of opportunity cost on top of it.
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#13 » by KTAB » Thu May 18, 2017 7:15 pm

Ainge "Mr. Fultz welcome to the NBA and have a seat next to Mr. Brown on the bench."Ainge in Golem voice " More draft picks my precious....."
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#14 » by the_process » Thu May 18, 2017 7:19 pm

SMTBSI wrote:
the_process wrote:Hey Wyc, you don't need to send max money out, you just about have a max slot open come July 1st. So on that day, you send Fultz and Zeller's UNG deal to Chicago for Butler. That should work.

Ignoring the question of whether the #1 would be an overpay for Butler...

We have a large amount of cap space. The optimal path, if we want to go all-in now, would be to use it to bring in one high level player as a free agent, for no/minimal outgoing assets, then consolidate additional assets to acquire a second, as Wyc suggests re: Butler. Doing it your way does save you from salary matching on Butler, but it's a Pyhrric victory, as you've incurred a significant opportunity cost by losing your ability to add that second player for "free". If you want that second guy still, it now has to be in trade, so any assets you saved by acquiring Butler the way you've suggested, will be washed out pretty easily.

Now, maybe that's just life. There's no guarantee we're going to be able to execute our plan to perfection. If we whiff on free agents, then your idea becomes a little more sound (again, ignoring whether #1 for Butler is even a good deal). But, given how I expect us to manage our cap, your suggestion is not a strong rebuttal to what Wyc has said here. It takes an already very dubious value proposition (#1 for Butler), and heaps a ton of opportunity cost on top of it.


It's not a rebuttal so much as simply pointing out that Boston does not need to add salary to acquire a max level player if they do not wish to, and that proposed trade I put up was just an illustration of a deal that could work financially should Boston be in a position where they would want to do it.
Top ten in draft:

Fultz, Issac, Jackson, Tatum, Ntilikina, Collins, Mitchell, Thornwell, Fox, Ball
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#15 » by SMTBSI » Thu May 18, 2017 7:29 pm

the_process wrote:It's not a rebuttal so much as simply pointing out that Boston does not need to add salary to acquire a max level player if they do not wish to, and that proposed trade I put up was just an illustration of a deal that could work financially should Boston be in a position where they would want to do it.

Understood. Just pointing out that there's almost no chance it gets done that way, for very good reason. It would be shortsighted and likely quite harmful to Boston's ceiling.
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#16 » by Johnny Firpo » Thu May 18, 2017 7:29 pm

In the NBA, you don't win without a Top 30 ever player, and 95% of champions drafted that player. So unless it's Lebron, Curry or Durant coming back, you don't trade the pick, because you actually have a much higher chance to win that way. Not to mention that the Fultz, Brown, Zizic, 2018 pick core will enter their prime right around the time that the Cavs and the Warriors' window close.

Unless you can trade for Chris Paul, Paul George and Jimmy Butler (yes, all three) with your assets and still keep Horford, you don't do anything, simple as that. Chris Paul might be the only Top 30 all-time player who could be available in a trade, and again, you don't win without those guys. The 2004 Pistons might be the only exception, and that was a perfect storm, with a highly unique team makeup, and possibly the GOAT defense.
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#17 » by 31to6 » Thu May 18, 2017 7:48 pm

So basically if New Orleans wants to give us a call about Anthony Davis*, we're listening.

(*I'm not saying there would be any reason whatsoever for them to do so)
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#18 » by Higgs Boston » Thu May 18, 2017 8:31 pm

In other words, for Giannis or Davis.
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#19 » by gerrit4 » Thu May 18, 2017 8:40 pm

Higgs Boston wrote:In other words, for Giannis or Davis.


Or Kawhi.
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Re: Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming' 

Post#20 » by Donnyxc » Thu May 18, 2017 10:28 pm

We had to learn something from Billy King, right?
Don't mortgage your future for a win-now type of philosophy.

I'd rather draft Markelle, have a shot at Michael Porter Jr next year, and have this team be good long term... instead of trading the top pick for Butler/George. The bigger question I think is whether the team should pay Isaiah. Lot of competing opinions.
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