Olympic Qualifiers 2016

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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#61 » by mojo13 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:46 pm

ok - so I was technically wrong. To actually get the citizenship granted you need to step a foot into the country. No big deal.
The qualification is what matters. It is true that all you need is a grandparent to "qualify" for citizenship.
The military service is minimal, you know that it comes with a lot of benefits and a reduced time. But real none the less. Didnt Jake Tsakaledis get charged a deserter for skipping his military duties?
And saying you "intend" to learn Greek is much different than passing a proficiency test in order to gain citizenship.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#62 » by Von Bismarck » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:43 pm

What about Vladimir Jankovic aka Vlantimir Giankovits. He's full-blooded Serbian born in Belgrade.

Technically, it's naturalization since he's not Greek by both place of birth and ancestry.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#63 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:18 pm

mojo13 wrote:ok - so I was technically wrong. To actually get the citizenship granted you need to step a foot into the country. No big deal.
The qualification is what matters. It is true that all you need is a grandparent to "qualify" for citizenship.
The military service is minimal, you know that it comes with a lot of benefits and a reduced time. But real none the less. Didnt Jake Tsakaledis get charged a deserter for skipping his military duties?
And saying you "intend" to learn Greek is much different than passing a proficiency test in order to gain citizenship.


If I remember right, both Jake Tsakalidis and Rasho Nesterovich got in trouble for not going to their Greek military service. I'm not sure on that though. Eventually they would have had to do it though of course.

As far as the language issue, regardless, they can't play in Greece's senior national team unless they know Greek. Kosta Koufos grew up speaking Greek in his household, so he already knew Greek. Nick Calathes did not know Greek, and so he had to learn it, which he has. Zach Auguste is going to be in Greece's national team program next year, and he already speaks Greek.

Then you have the cases of Michael Bramos and Tyler Dorsey. Bramos did not speak Greek, but he had to study it. The whole time he was playing in Greece with Panathinaikos (2 years), he was studying it. As far as I know, he only learned to understand it basically, and to know the basketball terminology, but he was never got comfortable with speaking it.

Well, since Greece officially made the rule that you have to speak Greek to be in the team (the rule was implemented in 2013 after EuroBasket ended), Bramos has not been selected even for the training of the national team in the last 3 summers now.

In the case of Tyler Dorsey, he did not speak Greek, and he was allowed to play only in the junior national team (in the Under-19 national team). He was told that he had to learn Greek if he wanted to play in the senior team. And he said that he spent the last year studying Greek, both in college, and with a personal teacher. Last summer he learned the basketball terminology in Greek, when he was in the Under-19 team. So that is why he was able to get invited to the senior team.

So basically, all of the Greek Americans currently in the senior program (Koufos, Nick Calathes, Auguste, Dorsey) have to know Greek. So it's not just a fake promise they make, they have to know the language, since the team's coach is Greek, and the federation wants all the practices and in game discussions to be in Greek, for tactical reasons.

Von Bismarck wrote:What about Vladimir Jankovic aka Vlantimir Giankovits. He's full-blooded Serbian born in Belgrade.

Technically, it's naturalization since he's not Greek by both place of birth and ancestry.



He's not naturalized either. He's under the same status as the Antetokounmpo brothers. Antetokounmpo brothers have parents from Nigeria (that have Greek citizenship being naturalized), and the brothers are not naturalized because they were born and raised in Greece. Except the oldest brother, Francis. He is naturalized, because he was born in Nigeria, and I think he was about 8 when he moved to Greece. He played basketball in Greece too, but then he changed to play football (soccer) in Nigeria.

So that way that works is, the parents and older brother are naturalized, because of either not being born in Greece, or not moving there at a young enough age. But the younger brothers are not naturalized, because they were born and raised in Greece.

It is the same case with Rony Seikaly (Greek name Roni Sakalis) and Vlado Jankovic (Greek name Vlantimir Giankovits). Sakalis I believe moved to Greece when he was 8 and was raised there from that point, and so he could be naturalized (which he was some time after he moved to USA), but not eligible for the national team. Same as Francis Antetokounmpo, who also came in Greece at age 8.

Giankovits moved to Greece at age 2, and was raised there, so he is not naturalized. I believe you have to have been raised in Greece from age 3 or younger, to not be naturalized under the normal rules. So Giankovits is not naturalized, but his parents were/are naturalized.

What comes with this is, that even for the younger Antetokounmpo brothers that were born in Greece, you have to have gone to Greek schools at all levels, know all of Greece history and laws (pass the full citizenship test), you have to be able to speak, read, and write Greek fluently, and you have to have lived in Greece from the time you moved there, to the time you get citizenship.

So for the younger Antetokounmpo brothers and Giankovits, they also had to meet all of those criteria (which they did), to not be naturalized.

Then there is a case like Aleksandar Vezenkov. He is also not naturalized, but that is because he meets the basic natural born criteria. His parents are Bulgarian descent, but he was born in the Greek part of Cyprus (where you are considered Greek if you are born there), and then he lived his whole life in the Greek part of Cyprus and in Greece. So that means he is eligible for full Cyprus and Greece citizenship, without being naturalized, and he can play in Cyprus or Greece national team also if he wanted, even though his parents are Bulgarian. He has stayed so far in Bulgaria's team though because the story is they won't release him. But point is, if he did switch to Greece's team (probably not because Bulgaria won't allow it), he would not be naturalized either.

So there have been some naturalized Greeks that could have played in the team if it was allowed (Peja, Seikaly, Rasho, Jaric), but none of them ever did. Which is true even in the cases of Seikaly and Peja that wanted to be in the team, and that actually trained and practiced with the senior team. Seikaly for example trained with the senior team for like 2 years, but still was not allowed to officially join it.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#64 » by Prez » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:46 pm

I think it's worth noting that Peja is Serbian.

Can't wait to watch Giannis dominate as the undisputed face, future, and leader of Greek basketball.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#65 » by Mirotic12 » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:20 pm

Milbuck wrote:I think it's worth noting that Peja is Serbian.

Can't wait to watch Giannis dominate as the undisputed face, future, and leader of Greek basketball.


He's had the last 3 summers playing with Greece, and he has not "dominated" anything, nor come even remotely close to doing anything resembling that.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#66 » by Prez » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:06 am

Mirotic12 wrote:
Milbuck wrote:I think it's worth noting that Peja is Serbian.

Can't wait to watch Giannis dominate as the undisputed face, future, and leader of Greek basketball.


He's had the last 3 summers playing with Greece, and he has not "dominated" anything, nor come even remotely close to doing anything resembling that.

He was dominant against Spain last summer until Spanoulis single handedly cost Greece the game with his low IQ chucking and terrible defense. Giannis was wrecking with his defense and rebounding but with Spanoulis refusing to admit he just can't do it anymore, he didn't get the ball. Without Spanoulis bringing everyone down I expect Giannis to dominate on an individual level. It'll be tough for the team as a whole to qualify with some of the valuable pieces missing (not including Spanoulis of course), though. In any case at the very least I think we can both agree that Giannis is better than Spanoulis ever was, and is the face and future of Greek basketball.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#67 » by Mirotic12 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:00 pm

Milbuck wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
Milbuck wrote:I think it's worth noting that Peja is Serbian.

Can't wait to watch Giannis dominate as the undisputed face, future, and leader of Greek basketball.


He's had the last 3 summers playing with Greece, and he has not "dominated" anything, nor come even remotely close to doing anything resembling that.

He was dominant against Spain last summer until Spanoulis single handedly cost Greece the game with his low IQ chucking and terrible defense. Giannis was wrecking with his defense and rebounding but with Spanoulis refusing to admit he just can't do it anymore, he didn't get the ball. Without Spanoulis bringing everyone down I expect Giannis to dominate on an individual level. It'll be tough for the team as a whole to qualify with some of the valuable pieces missing (not including Spanoulis of course), though. In any case at the very least I think we can both agree that Giannis is better than Spanoulis ever was, and is the face and future of Greek basketball.


2013 - Giannis was average with Greek NT - No Spanoulis playing on that team

2014 - Giannis was average with Greek NT - no Spanoulis playing on the team

2015 - Giannis was average with Greek NT - Spanoulis was on the team, and Giannis was the same as without him - AVERAGE


Of course, you posted in this forum and other forums each summer that Giannis would be the best player in every game, lead the tournaments in scoring, be the tournament MVP all 3 times, and that he would every time lead Greece to a gold medal (so far he has lead Greece to not even a bronze medal)...

After this summer, you will still be making up excuses for Giannis and why he was not "dominant" (a word you clearly need to look up in a dictionary), and why Greece did not win a gold medal (like you guaranteed 3 times already he would). You already started now in this thread with the excuses, before the tournament even begins, making up excuses about how Giannis' teammates will prevent him winning a medal. Which is also hypocritical, because before you claimed he would for sure win a medal, playing with the same players - including Spanoulis, that you also at the same time blame for why he did not win a medal. In other words, you contradicted yourself with every single post you made on this topic. Evidently, you don't even know what being hypocritical and contradictory is, since you are so extremely blatant at doing that.

And you will still be placing fake and totally made up out of thin air imaginary "blame" on Spanoulis, who is again not even on the team. But why would that matter to you? Since you also blamed Spanoulis for Giannis not being leading scorer, MVP, and winning gold in 2013 and 2014, when Spanoulis was not even on the team.

I like this though. Normally, people in realgm only saw you post this nonsense on the Bucks forum. Now you posted it here, so you are exposed. Thanks for that.

As for your other comments, I and another poster here in this thread already debunked them as the nonsense they are. This is not the Bucks forum, so that BS is not going to fly here. This is not a Giannis Antetokounmpo fan forum, nor is it the Bucks fan forum, so believe it or not, objectivity will be expected here, and not fan boy homerism. You can kindly take these kinds of Giannis and Bucks homerism posts to the Bucks forum, where they belong.

I am putting you on ignore, because you are just trying to derail this thread, and totally ruin it, and you have no interest in an actual serious basketball discussion (which I am pretty sure that is what realgm is for).
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#68 » by Prez » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:53 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
Milbuck wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
He's had the last 3 summers playing with Greece, and he has not "dominated" anything, nor come even remotely close to doing anything resembling that.

He was dominant against Spain last summer until Spanoulis single handedly cost Greece the game with his low IQ chucking and terrible defense. Giannis was wrecking with his defense and rebounding but with Spanoulis refusing to admit he just can't do it anymore, he didn't get the ball. Without Spanoulis bringing everyone down I expect Giannis to dominate on an individual level. It'll be tough for the team as a whole to qualify with some of the valuable pieces missing (not including Spanoulis of course), though. In any case at the very least I think we can both agree that Giannis is better than Spanoulis ever was, and is the face and future of Greek basketball.


2013 - Giannis was average with Greek NT - No Spanoulis playing on that team

2014 - Giannis was average with Greek NT - no Spanoulis playing on the team

2015 - Giannis was average with Greek NT - Spanoulis was on the team, and Giannis was the same as without him - AVERAGE


Of course, you posted in this forum and other forums each summer that Giannis would be the best player in every game, lead the tournaments in scoring, be the tournament MVP all 3 times, and that he would every time lead Greece to a gold medal (so far he has lead Greece to not even a bronze medal)...

After this summer, you will still be making up excuses for Giannis and why he was not "dominant" (a word you clearly need to look up in a dictionary), and why Greece did not win a gold medal (like you guaranteed 3 times already he would). You already started now in this thread with the excuses, before the tournament even begins, making up excuses about how Giannis' teammates will prevent him winning a medal. Which is also hypocritical, because before you claimed he would for sure win a medal, playing with the same players - including Spanoulis, that you also at the same time blame for why he did not win a medal. In other words, you contradicted yourself with every single post you made on this topic. Evidently, you don't even know what being hypocritical and contradictory is, since you are so extremely blatant at doing that.

And you will still be placing fake and totally made up out of thin air imaginary "blame" on Spanoulis, who is again not even on the team. But why would that matter to you? Since you also blamed Spanoulis for Giannis not being leading scorer, MVP, and winning gold in 2013 and 2014, when Spanoulis was not even on the team.

I like this though. Normally, people in realgm only saw you post this nonsense on the Bucks forum. Now you posted it here, so you are exposed. Thanks for that.

As for your other comments, I and another poster here in this thread already debunked them as the nonsense they are. This is not the Bucks forum, so that BS is not going to fly here. This is not a Giannis Antetokounmpo fan forum, nor is it the Bucks fan forum, so believe it or not, objectivity will be expected here, and not fan boy homerism. You can kindly take these kinds of Giannis and Bucks homerism posts to the Bucks forum, where they belong.

I am putting you on ignore, because you are just trying to derail this thread, and totally ruin it, and you have no interest in an actual serious basketball discussion (which I am pretty sure that is what realgm is for).

I kindly ask you to stop with the personal attacks. This thread is about the Olympics and I'm talking about the Greek national team, no derailment here. Let's keep this about the arguments and not the poster. Thanks.

I think it's a very valid and fair point to bring up that Spanoulis single handedly cost Greece last summer against Spain. It's just a fact. Giannis genuinely was playing outstanding and Spanoulis selfishly pounded the air out of the ball and chucked inefficiently, with horrible defense. He was abysmal and insisted on being abysmal because of his ego, and Greece lost because of it. If he accepted that Giannis was better than him and handed the keys to him they would've made it past Spain. I don't think it's misplaced optimism at all to think Giannis will flourish now without Spanoulis holding him back.

Aren't we both fans of Giannis? There's no need to argue, let's just agree that Giannis is by far the best Greek player on the planet right now and the clear face and future of Greek basketball.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#69 » by Livno » Sun Jul 3, 2016 12:48 pm

The first matches will be played Tomorrow.

What are your predictions?

Qualifying Tournament – Belgrade
Serbia vs. Puerto Rico
Japan vs. Latvia

Qualifying Tournament – Turin
Greece vs. Iran
Tunisia vs. Italy
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#70 » by Dtown84 » Sun Jul 3, 2016 3:20 pm

Livno wrote:The first matches will be played Tomorrow.

What are your predictions?

Qualifying Tournament – Belgrade
Serbia vs. Puerto Rico
Japan vs. Latvia

Qualifying Tournament – Turin
Greece vs. Iran
Tunisia vs. Italy


Serbia vs Puerto Rico is the match of the day, but Serbia should when by 10 or so. Latvia will probably dominate Japan. Both games in the the Italy group should be blowouts favoring the Europeans.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#71 » by Von Bismarck » Sun Jul 3, 2016 3:52 pm

Tournament in Belgrade is pretty much one way street. Serbia should have no real obstacles to win it.

Tournament in Turin is an even one. Italy has home court advantage but Greece and Croatia are strong as well.

Tournament in Manila is interesting. You have 3 outsiders - New Zealand, Phillipines and Senegal. Then you have France as favorites and Turkey & Canada as potential dangers to France. We'll see but I think France should win it.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#72 » by Livno » Sun Jul 3, 2016 7:40 pm

Canada with 5 NBA players:

Cory Joseph (8.5 PPG)
Tristan Thompson (7.9 PPG)
Tyler Ennis (4.5 PPG)
Anthony Bennett (1.5 PPG)
Joel Anthony (0.7 PPG)

but far away from the best possible Roster, without:

Andrew Wiggins (20.7 PPG)
Kelly Olynyk (10.0 PPG)
Nik Stauskas (8.5 PPG)
Andrew Nicholson (6.9 PPG)
Trey Lyles (6.1 PPG)
Dwight Powell (5.8 PPG)
Robert Sacre (3.5 PPG)
Jamal Murray

Where is the proud to represent the own Country?

Von Bismarck wrote:Tournament in Turin is an even one. Italy has home court advantage but Greece and Croatia are strong as well


I predict Italy losing to Croatia in the B2B game, Croatia with the better schedule, playing fresh vs. Italy. Croatia in the Final waiting for the winner of Greece/Italy.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#73 » by Von Bismarck » Mon Jul 4, 2016 9:31 pm

As expected, European teams won easily all 4 games played today.

Group A (Belgrade, Serbia)

Latvia - Japan 88-48
Serbia - Puerto Rico 87-81

Group C (Turin, Italy)

Greece - Iran 78-53
Italy - Tunisia 68-41


Group B (Manila, Phillipines) starts tomorrow.

Schedule for tomorrow;

Turkey - Canada (Group B)
France - Phillipines (Group B)

Croatia - Italy (Group C)
Iran - Mexico (Group C)

Puerto Rico - Angola (Group A)
Latvia - Czech Republic (Group A)


Most interested matches in bold.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#74 » by mojo13 » Tue Jul 5, 2016 4:38 pm

Livno wrote:Canada with 5 NBA players:

Cory Joseph (8.5 PPG)
Tristan Thompson (7.9 PPG)
Tyler Ennis (4.5 PPG)
Anthony Bennett (1.5 PPG)
Joel Anthony (0.7 PPG)

but far away from the best possible Roster, without:

Andrew Wiggins (20.7 PPG)
Kelly Olynyk (10.0 PPG)
Nik Stauskas (8.5 PPG)
Andrew Nicholson (6.9 PPG)
Trey Lyles (6.1 PPG)
Dwight Powell (5.8 PPG)
Robert Sacre (3.5 PPG)
Jamal Murray

Where is the proud to represent the own Country?

Von Bismarck wrote:Tournament in Turin is an even one. Italy has home court advantage but Greece and Croatia are strong as well


I predict Italy losing to Croatia in the B2B game, Croatia with the better schedule, playing fresh vs. Italy. Croatia in the Final waiting for the winner of Greece/Italy.



there are legit reasons for all those players to be missing (injury, free agency etc) except Wiggins, Stuaskas and Lyles. Those three were eligible but chose not to play (very disappointing to Canadians - especially with Wiggins).
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#75 » by fendilim » Tue Jul 5, 2016 4:59 pm

Von Bismarck wrote:As expected, European teams won easily all 4 games played today.

Group A (Belgrade, Serbia)

Latvia - Japan 88-48
Serbia - Puerto Rico 87-81

Group C (Turin, Italy)

Greece - Iran 78-53
Italy - Tunisia 68-41


Group B (Manila, Phillipines) starts tomorrow.

Schedule for tomorrow;

Turkey - Canada (Group B)
France - Phillipines (Group B)

Croatia - Italy (Group C)
Iran - Mexico (Group C)

Puerto Rico - Angola (Group A)
Latvia - Czech Republic (Group A)


Most interested matches in bold.
Turkey Canada was boring. No intensity, whatever.

Philippines Vs France was entertaining. Philippines fought really hard. Not as lopsided as you think.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#76 » by Von Bismarck » Tue Jul 5, 2016 5:01 pm

fendilim wrote:Turkey Canada was boring. No intensity, whatever.

Philippines Vs France was entertaining. Philippines fought really hard. Not as lopsided as you think.


Yup, indeed. I cannot understand how Turkey plays that bad for years while they always have a good roster.

FRA-PHI was unexpectedly good game. Filipinos put up a good fight.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#77 » by fendilim » Tue Jul 5, 2016 5:11 pm

Von Bismarck wrote:
fendilim wrote:Turkey Canada was boring. No intensity, whatever.

Philippines Vs France was entertaining. Philippines fought really hard. Not as lopsided as you think.


Yup, indeed. I cannot understand how Turkey plays that bad for years while they always have a good roster.

FRA-PHI was unexpectedly good game. Filipinos put up a good fight.

To be honest, as a Filipino, I was not expecting a close game against France, who's ranked at 5th or something(?). I was expecting it to be a lopsided victory for France. Nice to see the country doing well.

Although, I was disappointed with the crowd tonight. No fire like what we experienced in FIBA Asia.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#78 » by Von Bismarck » Tue Jul 5, 2016 5:21 pm

fendilim wrote:To be honest, as a Filipino, I was not expecting a close game against France, who's ranked at 5th or something(?). I was expecting it to be a lopsided victory for France. Nice to see the country doing well.

Although, I was disappointed with the crowd tonight. No fire like what we experienced in FIBA Asia.


Well, you guys played a good game. Blatche was especially dominant, if only he's in better physical shape so he could play more. I like your 5 shooters line-up, run'n'gun basically - fun to watch :D
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#79 » by MC3 » Tue Jul 5, 2016 7:00 pm

Croatia vs Italy is starting
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#80 » by Dr Music » Wed Jul 6, 2016 10:55 am

This whole thing with Greece and the National Teams has always been confusing. Kurt Rambis got to play a year with AEK because his grandfather was Greek. I moved to Greece at 14. By 16 I had progressed enough to be practicing with both the local junior and mens teams as well as being invited to played with the 16-under and 20-under team. Despite both my parents (and all decendents)being born in Greece, I was denied the paperwork on the basis that I was not Greek but American having been born in the US. So never got to play in Greece except for playing for the American High School there along with Rony Seikaly and getting to compete in tourneys with guys like Steve Kerr who was going to school in Cairo. Of course for years later I could not move to Greece because then I'd have to go to the Greek army, thus I would have to go because I was Greek, but I could not play ball because I was NOT Greek. So they pick and choose who they want to play.

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