Eurobasket 2017

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BoardCrusher
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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#21 » by BoardCrusher » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:28 am

Mirotic12 wrote:
BoardCrusher wrote:Italy got Hacket that aquired his bball knowledge in US highschool and college.

France has Kahudi and Gelabale, neither were born in France so....

Greece rolled with baby Shaq for years so please...

youre right only on Lithuania which is a powerhouse and has always had a **** of players to choose from


Not a single one of those players is naturalized. None of them are naturalized. And Hackett grew up in Italy. He grew up in Italy and started playing basketball in Italy, not USA. He also has a very heavy Italian accent, so I'm not sure how in any world he could be considered naturalized.

Kahudi and Gelabale were not born in France...so what? Neither is naturalized. They are French citizens by birth, because they come from Belgian/French territories. It's no different than USA claiming people from US Virgin Islands or Puerto Rico as Americans, which they do.

What in the world does Baby Shaq have to do with being naturalized? He's Greek by birth (Greek father), and he lived there from the time he was like 2 weeks old.

So no, none of those players is "naturalized".


well if you consider Republic of Congo and Guadalupe a part of France, theres really not much more to discuss with you.
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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#22 » by Mirotic12 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:11 pm

BoardCrusher wrote:well if you consider Republic of Congo and Guadalupe a part of France, theres really not much more to discuss with you.


Is that so.....

So now we are denying the fact that Guadalupe is a part of France?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadeloupe

You are right, "not much more to discuss".
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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#23 » by BoardCrusher » Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:18 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
BoardCrusher wrote:well if you consider Republic of Congo and Guadalupe a part of France, theres really not much more to discuss with you.


Is that so.....

So now we are denying the fact that Guadalupe is a part of France?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadeloupe

You are right, "not much more to discuss".


yeah on paper Guadalupe is French teritory, despite being located on other side of ocean.

But I especially like how you ignore the other part of your claim, that Rep of Congo is also a part of France.

Youre just a " think you know it all, prove everyone else youre right" douche, you spend 24/7 doing **** all but try to prove your claims, even though sometimes theyre nowhere near realistic, more like delusional pathological lies, and when youre proven wrong you just play dumb and ignore the facts.

So yeah im right, discussion with you is futile.


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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#24 » by UcanUwill » Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:30 pm

BoardCrusher wrote:well if you consider Republic of Congo and Guadalupe a part of France, theres really not much more to discuss with you.


Kahudi is born in Congo, but aren't his parents French?

Anyway, this thinking of, well, everyone else is doing it, so might as well do we is pretty sad and pathetic. Its sad that teams now are almost forced to use naturalized player to be competitive. And its pathetic that all courage of leading by example is gone. Gladly we still have few nations that lead by example. Serbia and Lithuania in particular, I think all the medals these teams win are so much more rewarding, because its not JR Holden who made a winning shot, you know what I mean?
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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#25 » by BoardCrusher » Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:06 pm

UcanUwill wrote:
BoardCrusher wrote:well if you consider Republic of Congo and Guadalupe a part of France, theres really not much more to discuss with you.


Kahudi is born in Congo, but aren't his parents French?

Anyway, this thinking of, well, everyone else is doing it, so might as well do we is pretty sad and pathetic. Its sad that teams now are almost forced to use naturalized player to be competitive. And its pathetic that all courage of leading by example is gone. Gladly we still have few nations that lead by example. Serbia and Lithuania in particular, I think all the medals these teams win are so much more rewarding, because its not JR Holden who made a winning shot, you know what I mean?


youre absolutely right there and those two powerhouses get much respect for that.

but than, if we look at France as the most obvious example, vast majority of their athletes in almost every sport are a product of their colonial history and politics. For years theyve had the edge over other countries, exclusivelly due to the fact they had a larger pool of athletically superior players.
So can a small country with 2 mio people compete with a country like France? No, but since their playerbase is a product of politics throught the history, others can now also make use of politics/rules that allow them to have 1 naturalized player. I dont see any difference there what so ever.


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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#26 » by LuDux1 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:17 pm

UcanUwill wrote:
BoardCrusher wrote:well if you consider Republic of Congo and Guadalupe a part of France, theres really not much more to discuss with you.


Kahudi is born in Congo, but aren't his parents French?

Anyway, this thinking of, well, everyone else is doing it, so might as well do we is pretty sad and pathetic. Its sad that teams now are almost forced to use naturalized player to be competitive. And its pathetic that all courage of leading by example is gone. Gladly we still have few nations that lead by example. Serbia and Lithuania in particular, I think all the medals these teams win are so much more rewarding, because its not JR Holden who made a winning shot, you know what I mean?


Personally I wouldn't mind few more medals, even if Weems made some shots.
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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#27 » by UcanUwill » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:33 pm

Italy announced their preliminary squad :

PG
Daniel Hackett
Andrea Cinciarini
Ariel Filloy
Stefano Tonut
Amedeo Della Valle

SG
Marco Belinelli
Pietro Aradori
Luca Vitali
Diego Flaccadori

SF
Danilo Gallinari
Luigi Datome
Awudu Abass

PF
Nicola Melli
Filippo Baldi Rossi
Davide Pascolo
Andrea Zerini
Paul Biligha

C
Marco Cusin
Riccardo Cervi

Strong starting five , but lacks depth and defense will be very questionable. Too many scorer first type players. Gentlile announced that he will not play earlier this summer.
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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#28 » by Pachinko_ » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:21 am

Ι hope most of them show, especially KP, Jokic, Giannis & his brother
Should be fun

Greece will probably be crap though, we're still waiting for the next generation of shooters to show up.
Or grow up.
Or get born LOL
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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#29 » by Mirotic12 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:19 pm

Pachinko_ wrote:Ι hope most of them show, especially KP, Jokic, Giannis & his brother
Should be fun

Greece will probably be crap though, we're still waiting for the next generation of shooters to show up.
Or grow up.
Or get born LOL


That's not an excuse for Greece national team. It's an idictment on all of their coaches.

Just for example, Greece has 2 of the, and perhaps even the 2 best shooters in Europe - Dusan Sakota and Thodoris Zaras.

But they would never ever be selected by any Greek coach ever. Because they are not the best all around players, basically mostly shooters. But that is not an excuse then.

Most national teams will add 1-2 great shooters at the end of the bench after the first 10 players if needed. if the teams needs shooting, almost all teams will add a couple shooters just for that.

Greece's coaches never did that. Over the years, Greece always had 2-3 really great shooters and they never were even in a training camp, simply because they were not all around players.

So it's a false excuse to say Greece had no shooters and has none now. It's the coaches just being stuck in a very old school basketball mindset.

There is no reason at all that they could not take 10 main players, then add lights out shooters with unlimited range like Zaras and Sakota - they choose not to do that. So it's a big time excuse to then claim any shortcomings were because of "no shooters".
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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#30 » by UcanUwill » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:38 am

Spain announced their 11 man roster straight up :

PG
Sergio Rodriguez
Sergio Llull
Ricky Rubio

SG
Juanas Carlosas Navarro
Alex Abrines

SF
Fernando San Emeterio

PF
Nikola Mirotić
Juancho Hernangómez

C
Marc Gasol
Pau Gasol
Willy Hernangómez
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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#31 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:30 am

UcanUwill wrote:Spain announced their 11 man roster straight up :

PG
Sergio Rodriguez
Sergio Llull
Ricky Rubio

SG
Juanas Carlosas Navarro
Alex Abrines

SF
Fernando San Emeterio

PF
Nikola Mirotić
Juancho Hernangómez

C
Marc Gasol
Pau Gasol
Willy Hernangómez



It's starting to look like Argentina of recent years. A bunch of has beens, mixed in with a few current players, then a bunch of young players that don't know how to win. Should still be a good team, but it's clearly not the team it was even 2 years ago.
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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#32 » by a-French-Fan » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:51 am

OMG...!!!
First Republic of Congo of Belgium are not french territories or even former colonies (except for Napoleonian empire for Belgium, 200 years ago).
Guadeloupe is not a territory but an oversea department (département d'outre-mer: DOM), which is completely different from an overseas territory, or an overseas country. For Guadeloupe, Martinique, French Guyana, La Reunion (sorry I don't know how do you call them in english), there is no discussion, their people are french as much as me (I live one hour south of Paris)

So in any case think that a guy from Africa (independant countries) or from a DOM, that is equivalent origins!! The guy from a DOM is french, end of the discussion!

About french naturalized:
French State don't give nationality to a people because ths one may be a great athlete. To be naturalized, you have to live 5 years at least and prove a lot of things. It's quite hard. As a sample, Ibaka (3 years in Spain?) or Mirotic would'not have been naturalized so quickly in France.
As a sample, Sekou Doumbouya, born in Guinea, miss U16 Euro for summer 2016. He became french few weeks before december's U18 Euro. But it took really a lto of time to naturalize him whereas he lived in Orleans for more than 5 years. He is Guinean by his bllod, but has grown up in France, immigrating as a very young child.

A naturalized is a real french citizen. I mean, we are not talking about a country which are giving nationality only for sport (a lot of east european nations do this, Spain too, but Mirotic and Ibaka really lived in Spain and really feel love Spain). Search on google Jacob Pullen, DJ Cooper, Bo McCalebb etc ... you will understand what I mean about real citizens.

So our team is coloured, but so is our country. One of the main interesting thing when you talk about immigration in France is that we have a lot of mixt weddings. The commom point between Tony Parker, Nicolas Batum, Rudy Gobert and Boris Diaw is that they all have a black father and a white mother.

The only one we naturalized before an Eurobasket was ... Joakim NOAH! Grew up some years in France, a swedish mother, a french tennis superstar for his father, living in USA for at least age of 13 years old. In France, we were really surprised that he wasn't french actually (His father is one the more beloved french personnality in France).

By the way, we have a lot of son of immigrants or even immigrants who played for France, but we are a old country of immigration, so hopefully these guys played for us.
Parker was born abroad, from a dutch mother and a US father; but there no debate about the fact he grew up here. Kahudi grew up in Picardie, you can't find more "deep France"! Doumbouya grew up in Orleans, a former royal city and place of Jeanne d'Arc, a national symbol.

As a conclusion, please don't talk about legitimity of our guys! They are French because that what they are, not because they could be good players.
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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#33 » by Pachinko_ » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:27 am

Yeah I don't remember Greece letting people play for the NT without a very legitimate tie to the country, they are very fussy about that. Tyler Dorsey and Sofoklis Schortsianitis are legit Greek, their grandfather and father respectively are born and raised Greeks.

Gianni's brother who was born and raised in Greece wasn't even allowed to play in the NT for a couple of years until he got his citizenship officially sorted (which is not easy for children of immigrants in Greece).
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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#34 » by janmagn » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:01 am

With naturalization being a huge topic here, how do you view some of Finland's guys?

-Erik Murphy and his brothers Alex and Tomas: their mother is Finnish, haven't lived in Finland

-Jamar Wilson: born as a American citizen, played in Finland for a couple of years, got married to a Finnish wife, kids born to Finnish citizenship

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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#35 » by a-French-Fan » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:23 am

janmagn wrote:With naturalization being a huge topic here, how do you view some of Finland's guys?

-Erik Murphy and his brothers Alex and Tomas: their mother is Finnish, haven't lived in Finland

-Jamar Wilson: born as a American citizen, played in Finland for a couple of years, got married to a Finnish wife, kids born to Finnish citizenship

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For Erik, blood rights are respected, no discussion. Maybe he has been naturalized because when you have a US passport, your diplomatic protection is on top wherever you go. So he could be Finnish without the nationality, but it doesn't matter (like Noah for France. Was naturalized too, but was already french in facts).
For Jamar Wilson it's by wedding, but it's a true wedding. After his career he will certainly live with his wife and children in Finland. He had to apply like any other immigrant after be married. So no discussion.

It does matter when it is a naturalization only for basketball national team.
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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#36 » by Pachinko_ » Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:44 pm

janmagn wrote:With naturalization being a huge topic here, how do you view some of Finland's guys?

-Erik Murphy and his brothers Alex and Tomas: their mother is Finnish, haven't lived in Finland

-Jamar Wilson: born as a American citizen, played in Finland for a couple of years, got married to a Finnish wife, kids born to Finnish citizenship

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All legit for me, they're kind of half and half, they get to choose who they play for.

My thinking is you can't deny it to people who have some real ties with the country because for some of them it's actually very important. For example Tyler Dorsey is born and raised in California, an American kid 100%. But growing up he kept hearing stories about Greece from his mother, his heritage, his granpa's story etc, and he slowly became interested about his roots. When the Greek federation approached his mother and him about the national team she talked him into trying it and so he flew to Greece for the first time. People embraced him, he went the next summer again, he met Giannis who took him under his wing, he had a great time and it ended up being an emotional experience that bonded him with the country of his grandfather. Of course for other players it's just a career move that means nothing more to them but you don't know that in advance, you can't just take it away from all of them.
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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#37 » by UcanUwill » Mon Jul 3, 2017 8:34 am

Looks like Jokic will not play for Serbia this year. Here goes Serbian chances...
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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#38 » by baldur » Mon Jul 3, 2017 11:10 am

UcanUwill wrote:Spain announced their 11 man roster straight up :

PG
Sergio Rodriguez
Sergio Llull
Ricky Rubio

SG
Juanas Carlosas Navarro
Alex Abrines

SF
Fernando San Emeterio

PF
Nikola Mirotić
Juancho Hernangómez

C
Marc Gasol
Pau Gasol
Willy Hernangómez


good enough to raise the throphy. clear favourites.
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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#39 » by remi_222 » Tue Jul 4, 2017 3:02 am

Here is the list of the 18 players for France :

PG :
Antoine Diot (Valence, Esp),
Thomas Heurtel (Anadolu Efes Istanbul, Turquey),
Léo Westermann (CSKA Moscow, Russia).

SG :
Rodrigue Beaubois (Vitoria, Esp),
Fabien Causeur (Bamberg, All),
Nando De Colo (CSKA Moscow, Rus),
Evan Fournier (Orlando, NBA),
Edwin Jackson (Estudiantes, Esp)

SF :
Yakuba Ouattara (Monaco),
Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot (Philadelphie, NBA).

PF :
Boris Diaw (Utah, NBA),
Livio Jean-Charles (Asvel),
Louis Labeyrie (Paris-Levallois),
Kim Tillie (Vitoria, Esp).

C :
Moustapha Fall (Chalon),
Joffrey Lauvergne (Chicago, NBA),
Vincent Poirier (Vitoria, Esp),
Kevin Séraphin (Indiana, NBA).

With 12 players per team, you already can say that LAbeyrie, Poirier, Livio wont be in the team.
But it's a very experienced team, solid mix between european / NBA experience.
De Colo is the best player in Europe (with Teodosic), Diaw is still here to make the coffee and give ass, Jackson finished best scorer in the best league in Europe (Spain), Roddy Bucket is back on track like crazy, Evan Fournier pure scorer, And Fall will bring size since Rudy Gobert is injured.
Clearly a fav with Spain and Serbia
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Re: Eurobasket 2017 

Post#40 » by a-French-Fan » Tue Jul 4, 2017 6:30 am

remi_222 wrote:Here is the list of the 18 players for France :

PG :
Antoine Diot (Valence, Esp),
Thomas Heurtel (Anadolu Efes Istanbul, Turquey),
Léo Westermann (CSKA Moscow, Russia).

SG :
Rodrigue Beaubois (Vitoria, Esp),
Fabien Causeur (Bamberg, All),
Nando De Colo (CSKA Moscow, Rus),
Evan Fournier (Orlando, NBA),
Edwin Jackson (Estudiantes, Esp)

SF :
Yakuba Ouattara (Monaco),
Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot (Philadelphie, NBA).

PF :
Boris Diaw (Utah, NBA),
Livio Jean-Charles (Asvel),
Louis Labeyrie (Paris-Levallois),
Kim Tillie (Vitoria, Esp).

C :
Moustapha Fall (Chalon),
Joffrey Lauvergne (Chicago, NBA),
Vincent Poirier (Vitoria, Esp),
Kevin Séraphin (Indiana, NBA).

With 12 players per team, you already can say that LAbeyrie, Poirier, Livio wont be in the team.
But it's a very experienced team, solid mix between european / NBA experience.
De Colo is the best player in Europe (with Teodosic), Diaw is still here to make the coffee and give ass, Jackson finished best scorer in the best league in Europe (Spain), Roddy Bucket is back on track like crazy, Evan Fournier pure scorer, And Fall will bring size since Rudy Gobert is injured.
Clearly a fav with Spain and Serbia


A contender this year, not a fav I would say. For PG and SG, we are the richest nation of this euro, no doubt. For SF, the is no experience for TLC and Ouattara at this level. If they come, they gonna be on the bench most of time (I hope TLC to take his chance). For PF, I like. And for C's, without Gobert it's gonna be hard. I really liked Fall this year, but we're talking about Eurobasket level.
Whatever the roster, France is able to lose or win against everyone! (2006 lost against Lebanon, 2014 win over Spain at home)

The good point after Rio's crash, it's that we will see a team without a leader playing so far from his standards. Parker, although I will always love him for all what he did, was toxic to the performance of theam last two years.

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