Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III

RollingWave · Post #361 » by **RollingWave** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:20 am

trying a 3 pointer or not is not really a player development thing as a offensive philosophy thing, if he was on Houston he would be launching everything from 3 even if he can only hit 30%.

I do think this is an aspect the team needs though, they need MKG and Zeller to take some 3s. Zeller especially was basically shooting everything right on the 3 point line anyway yet only took 1 3s. all year.

DY_nasty · Post #362 » by **DY_nasty** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:03 am

RollingWave wrote:trying a 3 pointer or not is not really a player development thing as a offensive philosophy thing, if he was on Houston he would be launching everything from 3 even if he can only hit 30%.

I do think this is an aspect the team needs though, they need MKG and Zeller to take some 3s. Zeller especially was basically shooting everything right on the 3 point line anyway yet only took 1 3s. all year.

Zeller has no business beyond the 3pt line at all. People have been trying to make him into something he's not since he showed up here. If anything, he needs a high post face-up game. He's quicker than the majority of the bigs he'll face in the league easily and he's actually decent finishing and drawing fouls -sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo- instead of that we can put him on the perimeter even though it took him 2 full years to be even somewhat average at hitting 18 footers. Someone closing out on Zeller in the corner may as well be a turnover for our offense too. His ballhandling isn't nearly solid enough to make anything out a closeout.

MKG shooting 3s wouldn't really hurt. I mean... its whatever. 3pt shooting around him will benefit the team more than MKG shooting 3s imo. He and Kemba suffer from the spacing issues more than anyone else. Their game doesn't need to change as much as their circumstances.

imo

either way, they just need to remain efficient

thesneakysneak · Post #363 » by **thesneakysneak** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:06 am

I don't want to see mkg putting any 3s up unless its from the corner, and hes making them.

If MKG even did manage to put up a few successful 3s a game (he won't) there is still the massive problem that all of the new acquisitions to provide spacing are on the second and third units. Batum will have to let the 3s fly this year higher than any time in his career while keeping his assist number around 5 a game in order to open up the game for the rest of the starting unit.
I really hope MKG and Batum get some early chemistry going on.

RollingWave · Post #364 » by **RollingWave** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:09 am

thesneakysneak wrote:I don't want to see mkg putting any 3s up unless its from the corner, and hes making them.

If MKG even did manage to put up a few successful 3s a game (he won't) there is still the massive problem that all of the new acquisitions to provide spacing are on the second and third units. Batum will have to let the 3s fly this year higher than any time in his career while keeping his assist number around 5 a game in order to open up the game for the rest of the starting unit.
I really hope MKG and Batum get some early chemistry going on.

The entire point and development in the last few years isn't how many 3s your forwards can actually hit, it's the simple fact that they're standing on the arc and has the threat to launching it. that pulls opposing defenders out. making it harder for teams to double either your post guy or helping out against driving guards.

Most analysis show that for the majority of player, if they can hit 35% from 18-20 feet, they'll probably hit 33-34 % from 3s , the difference in those few steps matter very little in terms of accuracy. 33% from 3s is the same as hitting 50%(!!) from 2s , which means if you can shoot it with any semblence of competence (like even 30%) you really should be launching it a lot. the Houston Rockets and GSW were both huge advocate of that (especially the Rockets before this year.)

essentially, if your taking a 18-20 footer shot at all, you really should be just stepping one step back to shoot 3s regardless, the long 2s should be limited as much as possible and only reserved as an occasional keeping teams honest / bail out shots . you should almost never run a play that set up a long 2 jump shot as the goal.

Given that the downside of pulling everyone out is you'll probably lose offensive rebound (something the Hornets under Clifford don't go for at all anyway.) it 's pretty much a no brainer that they should have EVERYONE shoot 3s. A LOT. as long as they crack 30%. if your going to take a bad shot might as well take one that counts for one more point and leaves you in a position that's easier to get back.

Yes Zeller should try to improve his attack off dribble in terms of skill, but you know what helps make him for efficient? if his 35% jump shot is falling for 3 point instead of 2. the entire point is that this doesn't NEED a real skill improvement to happen , it's simply a matter of positioning yourself slightly differently. you know what else would help? if when he's attacking the rim there's less defenders there because they're defending on the arc. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that finishing over 1 guy is easier than 2 or 3

Post #365 » by **JDR720** » Thu Aug 6, 2015 1:19 pm

MKG was at MJ''s camp

Mystical Apples · Post #366 » by **Mystical Apples** » Thu Aug 6, 2015 2:26 pm

RollingWave wrote:trying a 3 pointer or not is not really a player development thing as a offensive philosophy thing, if he was on Houston he would be launching everything from 3 even if he can only hit 30%.

I do think this is an aspect the team needs though, they need MKG and Zeller to take some 3s. Zeller especially was basically shooting everything right on the 3 point line anyway yet only took 1 3s. all year.

This couldn't be more accurate. If Cody and MKG aren't presenting a threat from 3 then it's a FO/Coaching failure. It's a probability thing and the opportunity cost of shooting long 2's is too high esp given 3's become progressively more valuable with each position, PG through Center.

LofJ · Post #367 » by **LofJ** » Thu Aug 6, 2015 3:34 pm

Clifford has been talking about Cody and MKG shooting 3's since he first got here, but hasn't let them shoot those shots during a game because I assume he feels they wouldn't shoot well enough from there to make it worth it. I expect that to change this season, it's probably the one aspect of this team I'm most excited to see.

predators · Post #368 » by **predators** » Thu Aug 6, 2015 3:43 pm

DY_nasty wrote:
RollingWave wrote:trying a 3 pointer or not is not really a player development thing as a offensive philosophy thing, if he was on Houston he would be launching everything from 3 even if he can only hit 30%.

I do think this is an aspect the team needs though, they need MKG and Zeller to take some 3s. Zeller especially was basically shooting everything right on the 3 point line anyway yet only took 1 3s. all year.

Zeller has no business beyond the 3pt line at all. People have been trying to make him into something he's not since he showed up here. If anything, he needs a high post face-up game. He's quicker than the majority of the bigs he'll face in the league easily and he's actually decent finishing and drawing fouls -sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo- instead of that we can put him on the perimeter even though it took him 2 full years to be even somewhat average at hitting 18 footers. Someone closing out on Zeller in the corner may as well be a turnover for our offense too. His ballhandling isn't nearly solid enough to make anything out a closeout.

MKG shooting 3s wouldn't really hurt. I mean... its whatever. 3pt shooting around him will benefit the team more than MKG shooting 3s imo. He and Kemba suffer from the spacing issues more than anyone else. Their game doesn't need to change as much as their circumstances.

imo

either way, they just need to remain efficient

Zeller needs to hit threes and be able to drive to the basket on closeouts to be anything more than a lunch pale big man. His arms are too short and center of gravity to high to ever have an above average post game.

DY_nasty · Post #369 » by **DY_nasty** » Thu Aug 6, 2015 11:41 pm

predators wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:
RollingWave wrote:trying a 3 pointer or not is not really a player development thing as a offensive philosophy thing, if he was on Houston he would be launching everything from 3 even if he can only hit 30%.

I do think this is an aspect the team needs though, they need MKG and Zeller to take some 3s. Zeller especially was basically shooting everything right on the 3 point line anyway yet only took 1 3s. all year.

Zeller has no business beyond the 3pt line at all. People have been trying to make him into something he's not since he showed up here. If anything, he needs a high post face-up game. He's quicker than the majority of the bigs he'll face in the league easily and he's actually decent finishing and drawing fouls -sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo- instead of that we can put him on the perimeter even though it took him 2 full years to be even somewhat average at hitting 18 footers. Someone closing out on Zeller in the corner may as well be a turnover for our offense too. His ballhandling isn't nearly solid enough to make anything out a closeout.

MKG shooting 3s wouldn't really hurt. I mean... its whatever. 3pt shooting around him will benefit the team more than MKG shooting 3s imo. He and Kemba suffer from the spacing issues more than anyone else. Their game doesn't need to change as much as their circumstances.

imo

either way, they just need to remain efficient

Zeller needs to hit threes and be able to drive to the basket on closeouts to be anything more than a lunch pale big man. His arms are too short and center of gravity to high to ever have an above average post game.

I'd rather see Zeller play the odds in the post than ever try and put the ball on the floor from outside the 3pt line :lol:

I'd rather see Kemba try to back someone down than have Zeller trying to add yet another part to his game that has nothing to do with anything that he got drafted for.

HornetJail · Post #370 » by **HornetJail** » Fri Aug 7, 2015 2:35 am

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWApd_nmusA[/youtube]

Can't do this frequently if teams don't respect the perimeter game. And god knows we don't need more defenders in the paint. I'm all for Cody getting some 3s in.

DY_nasty · Post #371 » by **DY_nasty** » Fri Aug 7, 2015 3:10 am

MotorKeepsGoing wrote:[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWApd_nmusA[/youtube]

Can't do this frequently if teams don't respect the perimeter game. And god knows we don't need more defenders in the paint. I'm all for Cody getting some 3s in.

Yeah... outstanding defense from defensive juggernaut kenneth faried and the steel curtain denver nuggets :roll:

my point still stands that zeller never should be in a position to put the ball on the floor more than once ever

TikiJJ · Post #372 » by **TikiJJ** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:35 pm

Can anyone help a new Hornets fan get acquainted with the type of player MKG is? I've read lots of forum posts so far, but I haven't commented on any of them except for Lin's, because last year I've only watched two Hornets game.

So anyways, there seems to be lots of excitement about MKG, but then there were equally lots of concerns about his health and durability (if I remember it correctly). Can you guys tell me the type of player he is? For example, who does he remind you of, if you have to compare him to either current or retired players?

Post #373 » by **fatlever** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:12 pm

TikiJJ wrote:Can anyone help a new Hornets fan get acquainted with the type of player MKG is? I've read lots of forum posts so far, but I haven't commented on any of them except for Lin's, because last year I've only watched two Hornets game.

So anyways, there seems to be lots of excitement about MKG, but then there were equally lots of concerns about his health and durability (if I remember it correctly). Can you guys tell me the type of player he is? For example, who does he remind you of, if you have to compare him to either current or retired players?

This is a good place to start. This review was written by LamarMatic7, our board's very own Zach Lowe type writer.

http://lamarmatic.com/2015/04/17/season-in-review-michael-kidd-gilchrist/

Bence · Post #374 » by **Bence** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:00 pm

Lamar's reviews are really grantland/espn insider worth materials. Nothing is missing from his assesments usually. Just to add my own feelings: I watched as many games from the expansion draft as I could, and in the first 3-4 years mainly GWall's game was the lone bright spot on the horizon (I liked Okafor, but still). His hustle, grit, self-secrifising game was my favourite (later in portland, when he became worn down, slower, he got the flopping in his repertoire, which is a shame). MKG is much like him in many aspects, with much higher ceiling I hope.

Bence · Post #375 » by **Bence** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:01 pm

*sacrifising

TikiJJ · Post #376 » by **TikiJJ** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:56 am

fatlever wrote:
TikiJJ wrote:Can anyone help a new Hornets fan get acquainted with the type of player MKG is? I've read lots of forum posts so far, but I haven't commented on any of them except for Lin's, because last year I've only watched two Hornets game.

So anyways, there seems to be lots of excitement about MKG, but then there were equally lots of concerns about his health and durability (if I remember it correctly). Can you guys tell me the type of player he is? For example, who does he remind you of, if you have to compare him to either current or retired players?

This is a good place to start. This review was written by LamarMatic7, our board's very own Zach Lowe type writer.

http://lamarmatic.com/2015/04/17/season-in-review-michael-kidd-gilchrist/

Thanks for the great read fatlever. I have a feeling this kid's going to become my favorite player towards the end of the upcoming season. I've watched some highlight videos and obviously those videos only contain his great moments on the court, but nonetheless they do point out his strengths and I do really love his tenacity on defense.

There are many wingmen in the NBA who have the physique and the athleticism to thrive on the defensive end, but not many put them to good use. The sheer impact that he has on points given up per 100 possessions is insanely impressive! However, he does have to polish up his offense and hopefully he's working on his three point shooting as well.

Is he working on changing his jump shooting form this summer? I know that his mid-range has improved a whole lot, but even in last season's highlight you can still notice a slight funny twist of his arm and wrist. Reggie Miller comes to mind when you think of a great shooter with unorthodox shooting form, but that's Reggie and this is MKG, so I don't know that he can ever become an effective long range shooter with his current form. It's a shame, because he could become a quite scary player if he can improve his all around offense.

TikiJJ · Post #377 » by **TikiJJ** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:08 am

Bence wrote:Lamar's reviews are really grantland/espn insider worth materials. Nothing is missing from his assesments usually. Just to add my own feelings: I watched as many games from the expansion draft as I could, and in the first 3-4 years mainly GWall's game was the lone bright spot on the horizon (I liked Okafor, but still). His hustle, grit, self-secrifising game was my favourite (later in portland, when he became worn down, slower, he got the flopping in his repertoire, which is a shame). MKG is much like him in many aspects, with much higher ceiling I hope.

You've described exactly the type of players I've always loved watching. In today's NBA, fans seem to put too much weight on points scored by individual players and not many seem to give props to the guys who do the dirt work.

There's so much more to winning than just putting up points and ultimately, players like MKG are the guys who make the contributions that are never talked about on ESPN, but probably impacted a whole lot in the Ws throughout the season.

If he is the type of player who I think he is, then it'll be a lot of fun watching him grow as a player in the upcoming season.

Elden Payton · Post #378 » by **Elden Payton** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:37 am

Lamar is the best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be.

Liver_Pooty · Post #379 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:08 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/rick_bonnell/status/633376920965619712[/tweet]

I don't think I've ever seen a beat writer ask his readers what the team he covers will do.

Post #380 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:12 pm

This is progress - at least Rick is asking the right question. I mean, it took him until the middle of August to identify it when MKG has popped up in extension pieces since May, and he has no insight into what we'll actually do, but at least he's showing that he's aware?

Baby steps?