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The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 - Off the Cliff we go

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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#81 » by RollingWave » Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:59 am

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:I feel like you guys underestimate Hawes.

Also in pitching the 9 man rotation Cliff specifically called out that having only 14 min just wasn't enough for a player to really get into the flow of a game. When you set min rotations you probably want more than that as your floor for a guy.

He has consistently been a +/- disaster in his career.

To be fair to him, he's actually still relatively young at 26, and could plausibly be a late boomer big man, and if Clifford have one obviously great attribute about him it's the ability to make bad defensive bigs look competent .

I think the key with him (and Frank really to a lesser extend.) would be that they really should just play center, their offensive skillset is not THAT useful as a 4 as it would be as a 5. and you can afford 1 guy who's not mobile on defense, but not 2.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#82 » by EwingSweatsALot » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:10 pm

According to Stan Van Gundy, Steve is a big West Wing fan. I have no idea why this matters for this thread.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#83 » by HornetJail » Mon Aug 3, 2015 12:42 am

RollingWave wrote:
Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:I feel like you guys underestimate Hawes.

Also in pitching the 9 man rotation Cliff specifically called out that having only 14 min just wasn't enough for a player to really get into the flow of a game. When you set min rotations you probably want more than that as your floor for a guy.

He has consistently been a +/- disaster in his career.

To be fair to him, he's actually still relatively young at 26, and could plausibly be a late boomer big man, and if Clifford have one obviously great attribute about him it's the ability to make bad defensive bigs look competent .

I think the key with him (and Frank really to a lesser extend.) would be that they really should just play center, their offensive skillset is not THAT useful as a 4 as it would be as a 5. and you can afford 1 guy who's not mobile on defense, but not 2.

The big issue is that we have a center that can't defend and sits on the ball on offense too much. Guys like Hawes and Kaminsky would be great if a defensive player was playing the other big man position. Bismack makes perfect sense as a center for this team, even more so than last year's team, because we now have three stretch PF/Cs that could play next to him, plus Cody Zeller. I think our front office noticed this too late and hastily signed Tyler Hansbrough as if that would fix the issue.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#84 » by RollingWave » Mon Aug 3, 2015 1:33 am

MotorKeepsGoing wrote:The big issue is that we have a center that can't defend and sits on the ball on offense too much. Guys like Hawes and Kaminsky would be great if a defensive player was playing the other big man position. Bismack makes perfect sense as a center for this team, even more so than last year's team, because we now have three stretch PF/Cs that could play next to him, plus Cody Zeller. I think our front office noticed this too late and hastily signed Tyler Hansbrough as if that would fix the issue.


Biz while a good shot blocker also can't really defend faster 4s.

The general question is what's the best offensive lineup you can get away defensively.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#85 » by Liver_Pooty » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:36 pm

Bonnell interviewed Clifford.

Q: Now that your roster is basically formed, what do you like best about the new group?

I think improved skill -- not just shooting, but passing. That will help our ability to create open shots. And more versatility.

Q: In contrast, what will you have to overcome?

One thing we don’t want to lose is the defensive and rebounding mentality that we’ve had for two years. That will be an area we’ll have to deal with early.

Q: Power forward Cody Zeller went through a rough summer, with his shoulder surgery. How has he looked lately?

He did a great job -- everything he could have done with the rehab. He’s been on the floor for the last seven weeks, doing a lot of shooting. He’s back to the same weight he was after losing some weight with the injury.

Q: Roughly half of your roster has turned over. How will that make this preseason different from if there had been less change?

We have to treat all of them as if we haven’t coached them before, even the guys coming back, so that we have the right foundation. The guys who have been here the last two years can help the new guys, but we have to make sure the foundation is set offensively, defensively and every other aspect.

The second aspect is they have to adapt to change quickly. I’ve talked to every one of them about that. Whether it’s a pick-and-roll technique or a coverage call, we all have to say, ‘This is the way the Hornets do it.’ We’ve all got to do it the same way.

Q: You have no control over injuries and tend not to get preoccupied with things beyond your control. But one of the challenges a year ago was a lot of preseason injuries that hindered continuity. Is it extra important now that you have minimal injuries to get the synergy you’ll need?

Absolutely. Critical. So much of that goes into what guys have done this summer to stay fit. We need to get lucky, too, but health is a big part of it. Two years ago we were relatively healthy. A year ago we weren’t and that made a big difference.

Q: Center Al Jefferson was very open in saying he needed to lose weight. Have you checked in on him lately and where does he stand?

I was in Santa Monica (Calif.) with him about 2 1/2 weeks ago. He had a plan month-by-month with (strength and conditioning coach) Matt Friia. He’s on target. He feels good and looks good. Now he has to finish up in August and September.

Q: You went West to watch rookies Frank Kaminsky and Aaron Harrison at Grgurich’s camp. How did they look?

I like the camp, thought it was really good. Aaron did a good job early, then got sick and missed a couple of sessions. Frank played really well. He shot the ball well and actually looked fresher than he did in summer league. Guys go straight from the draft to summer-league games. At the camp he just looked quicker and fresher.

Q: What is the key to Kaminsky contributing as a rookie?

Just strength. And obviously him adjusting to the NBA game. But he’s a quick learner and a good worker. He’ll pick things up quickly. That applies to both ends of the floor. He’s so good off the dribble that he would beat guys but be pushed off (his lane to the rim) a little bit. So a lot of times, where in college he got to the basket, he was instead taking 8-to-10 footers. As he gets stronger, he’ll be at the basket again.

Q: Is one of your preseason challenges figuring how the big men fit together?

Absolutely. We’ve got to get back to balanced play. We’ve all watched a lot of film, so we understand their strengths and weaknesses. But chemistry between guys -- the dynamic of who plays better with whom -- matters and making sure we have enough offense and defense at each of those spots will be critical.

Q: You’ve said you’re intrigued by the potential in playing point guards Kemba Walker and Jeremy Lin together. Can you describe your vision for that combination?

It’s always good to have two pick-and-roll players on the floor. That way you can put pressure on the defense at one side, then switch it to the other. That makes more room to play similar to how Golden State does. You’ve got Steph (Curry) on one side, so defenses have to load up there, and then you’ve got Klay Thompson on the other with room to operate.

That’s what Kemba can do for Jeremy and Jeremy can do for Kemba.

Q: How important is Nic Batum’s versatility to your plans going forward?

His versatility, his basketball IQ and his skill level. He can guard different positions and offensively he can play (shooting guard, small forward or power forward). He has size and quickness and his decision-making on the floor is so good.

Q: You have twice, as an assistant coach, made one of these preseason trips to China. Have you plotted out how to get the work done in the preseason while fitting in this two-exhibition trip?

Absolutely. We get three extra days (of training camp), which helps. We will do more the first week (in Charlotte) because in China practice time is a little bit shorter than it would be here. Obviously it’s different -- the whole experience -- so that won’t be a week when we’re adding a lot. Over there we’ll just work on execution and getting ready for games.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/charlotte-hornets/article32740182.html#storylink=cpy


Not one question about MKG and his progression as a shooter is very, very disappointing. Great to know that Zeller has been on the court and shooting a lot for the past 7 weeks. Also good news that Jefferson is in good shape.

I completely agree that Kaminsky is going to need to get way stronger. Probably more core strength than anything
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#86 » by HornetJail » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:43 pm

Yeah I was really hoping to see something about MKG's and Cody's jumpers, but I was also definitely hoping to hear something about Jeremy Lamb. Bonnell could've asked better questions.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#87 » by Liver_Pooty » Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:26 pm

MotorKeepsGoing wrote:Yeah I was really hoping to see something about MKG's and Cody's jumpers, but I was also definitely hoping to hear something about Jeremy Lamb. Bonnell could've asked better questions.


He should've asked at least 5 or 6 more. Im sure the interview didn't last all but 5 minutes. Just laziness. Guess we'll have to wait another month to see if Zeller and MKG have in game 3 point range.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#88 » by yosemiteben » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:14 pm

Cliff on MJ, from a nice CBJ piece on Cliff:

On Jordan as an owner: Actually, I think we have terrific communication. I get asked that all the time. But, particularly, by other head coaches.

I don’t think there’s any way you can rate owners, but I’ll just give you an example. We talk on the phone. He’s great with me about letting me know what he sees because he’s watching all the games and obviously he has a great background and knowledge about the NBA.

One of the best stories I tell coaches is that they don’t understand the advantage of having him. Last year, we had lost seven in a row, played Golden State here on a Friday night, we were ahead early in the fourt, Steph (Curry) got going and they came back and beat us. We had put a lot into the game, the guys played well.

We went to Atlanta the next night and I think, in the third quarter, we were down, like, 38. So we come back the next morning and I’m here in the office watching film and I see it’s Michael (calling). And the conversation was short. He said, “Are you OK?” And I said, “Not really.” And he said, “Look, we’re getting better, there’s no way we were going to play well last night (after an emotional loss to Golden State). You’ve got to understand — I told my wife after the (Golden State) game, there’s no way we’re playing well tomorrow.’ Just keep working, be positive.” I don’t think there are many owners that would have the knowledge of basketball to view a situation like that.

I get that question all the time. To me, he’s been great.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#89 » by DY_nasty » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:29 pm

we don't believe you clifford
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#90 » by Braggins » Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:57 am

I'm pretty sure Clifford blew that Golden State game by leaving in our 5 man bench unit against Golden States starters at the end of the 3rd quarter and early 4th.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#91 » by yosemiteben » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:11 am

Braggins wrote:I'm pretty sure Clifford blew that Golden State game by leaving in our 5 man bench unit against Golden States starters at the end of the 3rd quarter and early 4th.

Nah, Roberts had 20 points that game, he played 30 minutes and was 8-12 from the field. We actually only played 9 guys that game, and Hendo only got 16 minutes.

Speights killed us in that 4th quarter - he had 16 4th quarter points. He did it on Biz and on Al.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#92 » by Liver_Pooty » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:23 am

Cliffords going to win coach of the year. Early prediction.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#93 » by Braggins » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:38 am

yosemiteben wrote:
Braggins wrote:I'm pretty sure Clifford blew that Golden State game by leaving in our 5 man bench unit against Golden States starters at the end of the 3rd quarter and early 4th.


Speights killed us in that 4th quarter - he had 16 4th quarter points. He did it on Biz and on Al.

You love trying to mask blame that should be Al's by redirecting it to Biz. How many minutes did Biz play that 4th quarter? Seems a bit odd to mention Biz first. Kind of like how Cousin's big games against us were mostly the fault of Biz's 10 or 15 minutes of total playing time.

The rest of your post was right though
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#94 » by yosemiteben » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:45 am

Braggins wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
Braggins wrote:I'm pretty sure Clifford blew that Golden State game by leaving in our 5 man bench unit against Golden States starters at the end of the 3rd quarter and early 4th.


Speights killed us in that 4th quarter - he had 16 4th quarter points. He did it on Biz and on Al.

You love trying to mask blame that should be Al's by redirecting it to Biz. How many minutes did Biz play that 4th quarter? Seems a bit odd to mention Biz first. Kind of like how Cousin's big games against us were mostly the fault of Biz's 10 or 15 minutes of total playing time.

The rest of your post was right though.

I'll allow you the pleasure of reading through the game log and figuring it out yourself, but I'll say it is weird for you to start out criticizing Cliff for leaving in the second unit, then criticizing him for not playing Biz enough in the 4th.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#95 » by Braggins » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:56 am

yosemiteben wrote:
Braggins wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
Speights killed us in that 4th quarter - he had 16 4th quarter points. He did it on Biz and on Al.

You love trying to mask blame that should be Al's by redirecting it to Biz. How many minutes did Biz play that 4th quarter? Seems a bit odd to mention Biz first. Kind of like how Cousin's big games against us were mostly the fault of Biz's 10 or 15 minutes of total playing time.

The rest of your post was right though.

I'll allow you the pleasure of reading through the game log and figuring it out yourself, but I'll say it is weird for you to start out criticizing Cliff for leaving in the second unit, then criticizing him for not playing Biz enough in the 4th.

I was just pointing out that i found it odd that you would describe the blame by saying "He did it on Biz and on Al" when Biz probably played 2-4 minutes maximum in the quarter.

Biz generally wasn't the problem in our second unit. The unit as a whole was terrible, but mostly due to Roberts, Neal, PJ, Marv, and Max (when he played). Criticizing Cliff for overusing our bench unit is valid (although possibly not for that particular game) but that doesn't mean that Biz didn't actually deserve more minutes just because he was part of a unit that was weak overall.

You were right in general about that game. I initially remembered it wrong. After you mentioned it I vividly remembered Speights hitting a million free throw line jumpers. I think it started against Biz in the 3rd and then got even worse when Al came back in the 4th.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#96 » by yosemiteben » Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:24 am

Yeah, wasn't really responding to general critiques of Cliff, was just talking about the specific game - I meant nothing more than that Speights went off on both of them, wasn't trying to preemptively shift blame. Speights made me want to gouge my eyes out, he was unbelievable.

That was an interesting game - Kemba sucked from the field (4 - 16), but he had a ton of boards (I think 13). Cody posted 15 pts, 14 boards. Roberts weirdly had a really nice scoring game. Curry went 1 - 10 from three. Weird that we gave GSW a scare without MKG and with the funk that we were in. It really sucked losing that game.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#97 » by Braggins » Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:48 am

Sorry, I'm still a little sour over losing Biz lol.

But yeah, Speights ripped our hearts out. I remember we were all freaking out in the game thread. It looked like we had Golden State finished, and then Maurice freakin Speights crapped all over us.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#98 » by JDR720 » Fri Oct 2, 2015 8:29 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/CBJnewsroom/status/649695884662468608[/tweet]
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#99 » by yosemiteben » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:51 pm

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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#100 » by yosemiteben » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:48 pm

I'm a little surprised at the lack of discussion following that Woj piece.

Highlights:

Some top executives are watching his contract status closely, they’ve told Yahoo Sports, curious about Clifford’s availability should a contract extension fail to materialize with Charlotte.

After years of flailing, owner Michael Jordan seems to have found his keeper of a coach. Jordan has publicly and privately praised him, although Clifford enters the final season of a three-year contract. After so much coaching and roster instability, Clifford has transformed the Hornets’ work environment, turning a wayward operation into competence. The Hornets have an identity – defense, rebounding and relentless player development amid a challenged roster.

Once Clifford deemed the Stephenson experiment a failure – that the Hornets weren’t doing anything well with him – players say that they had to endure a few locker-room tantrums. Clifford let Stephenson blow off steam, responding the next day with a detailed video session to show the young guard all the reasons that led to his benching.

“To me, in the NBA, the challenge is that our players are often being tugged so many ways,” Clifford says. “A lot of times people are well meaning. Most issues, or as Jeff [Van Gundy] would say, most losses come from within. Most bad nights start internally.

“It’s friends, it’s family. Sometimes it’s agents. It isn’t that they don’t mean well, but they’re looking at what’s best for the player – not always what’s best for the team. That’s where the conflict is. To me, the challenge is to develop the right kind of coach-player relationship so they know our intent is to get them better, and get the team better."

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