Charlotte Hornets Offseason Plan

[JMAC3]

that is true, but what is also true is every elite team has multiple superstars. we dont have one or have a way to get one, so we need to go the "star studded starting lineup" path and get 4-5 all-star players in the starting lineup if we want to be better than a 2nd round playoff treadmill team like the hawks.

and im counting all-star players as players who are around 4-10th at their positions, or have the potential to be relatively soon.

I agree, but at the same time we do not have enough money to pay that many players who are considered all-star players. This is why I am proposing we sign a potential allstar center and let Frank develop at PF and give him every chance to succeed.

In my mind Kemba and Batum can be all star players and we all know what kind of impact a healthy MKG can make.

I do not see a huge downgrade from Marvin to Frank, especially when you consider Frank will be entering his prime and Marvin is probably coming off his career year and things are going to trend downward from here.

Frank and Howard/Whiteside front court is better in my mind then a Marvin and Noah/Mahinmi and they will end up costing similarly.

i think its more do able for us than it used to be. we already have two of them under contract (MKG/Kemba) for 12/13 million each. the plan (if it works obviously) will be complete after the 2017 offseason.

Kemba
2017 SG (letting Nic go in order to sign a C this year the reason for this is the 2017 SG/SF class has a few players who are as good/better than Nic and the C class is still good, but the good targets are all restricted and they are unrestricted this season)
MKG
Frank (if he works)
Whiteside

keeping Lee as a stop-gap isnt a bad plan IMO, we can always trade him or Lamb to make room.

dream team after next offseason

Kemba (12 million)-MLE PG this offseason (Seth Curry?)
Oladipo (25 million?)- Lamb (7 million)
MKG- (13 million)- Lee (10 million?)
Frank- (4 million)
Whiteside-22 million- Zeller (RFA, match contract)

Dipo is RFA, but ORL has a surplus at his position with Forunier and Hezonja and Cody is his pal so i think he is getable.

MLE/draft picks and the D-league team (which hopefully we actually use, it has great benefits if used correctly) to fill it out and the cap is supposed to be over 100 million then.

With the cap going up is Orlando really gonna let Oladipo go? Seems 50/50 at best.

Also, is he a better player than Nic Batum? I think that is debatable and you are essentially gonna end up paying them the same amount.

I do not want to turn into the team that leaves cap space free in hopes of next year being the year they get the STAR, look how that has worked out for Dallas and Lakers.

You are not gonna get everyone on your team at a discount, the good teams are the ones where they have 1 or 2 guys cheap so they can afford to overpay for the others. Curry makes less than Klay, Draymond, Bogut and Iggy.

We already have Kemba and MKG on team friendly deals.

[jtsmith]

I agree that one of the fantastic things about Lin is that he's great depth and makes injuries a lot easier to handle. Depth is definitely an issue if we want to renounce guys to pursue bigger FAs, which is why I really hope we can just bring everyone back and build through trades. We have the same depth question with Marv though - if we let him go and Frank goes down, what then? Pray MKG can handle PF minutes? Plug Zeller back in as PF? The gap between what we can get from Marv and an MLE type big is massive.

Not an easy decision, I can see it either way.

there are also intangibles from Marv like glue guy in the locker room, defense foundation, etc...
I think Marv would fit better. CLee and Lamb can anchor the bench and groom a PG whether it'd be jorge or draft pick.

[fatlever]

ESPN 730
‏@ESPN730

"If the Hornets short change Nic Batum it'll be their fault, the key for them is not let him explore his other options" - @AdiJoseph

ESPN 730 ‏@ESPN730 20m20 minutes ago

"Jeremy Lin knows he is valuable to this team and if he leaves it could be a risk, they value what he brings to this team" - Joesph

ESPN 730 ‏@ESPN730 18m18 minutes ago

"The only way I see Al Jefferson staying is if he takes a massive pay cut, but he loves it here, wants to win & loves Clifford" - @AdiJoseph

[fatlever]

Chris Kroeger
‏@Kroeger

How hard is Nic Batum to replace?

#Hornets Steve Clifford just told us there are basically 5 other players in the NBA to do what he does.

[qiantom]

Chris Kroeger
‏@Kroeger

How hard is Nic Batum to replace?

#Hornets Steve Clifford just told us there are basically 5 other players in the NBA to do what he does.

5 other players that play the same position, right? The statement is a little misleading because you can potentially replace him by upgrading other positions.

[yosemiteben]

Chris Kroeger
‏@Kroeger

How hard is Nic Batum to replace?

#Hornets Steve Clifford just told us there are basically 5 other players in the NBA to do what he does.

5 other players that play the same position, right? The statement is a little misleading because you can potentially replace him by upgrading other positions.

I don't think he means at his position.

[TinmanZBoy]

Chris Kroeger
‏@Kroeger

How hard is Nic Batum to replace?

#Hornets Steve Clifford just told us there are basically 5 other players in the NBA to do what he does.

let me guess:
LeBron
Paul George
draymond green
Blake Griffin
Gordon Hayward

[qiantom]

If it is any position, I guess he was referring to some combination of points, assists and rebounds. All or most of the other five must be superstars, which Batum is simply not.

Anyway, I think it is simply playmaking from a non-PG position that Hornets need to pair with Kemba really, which does not need to be explained by some random stats.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

[phillycheese]

That's a fair point. In my mind the question is if you were guaranteed to get the exact same production this season that you got last season, who would you prefer to retain - Lin or Marv?

Lin, because he has shown that he can win you games when he plays out of his mind. He can probably give you 10 Lintastic games. Marv has not shown the intestinal fortitude to play big - disappeared in the playoffs (not sure if it was the injury or not) and those two missed free throws at the end of that game late in the season were glaring signs to me.

[Braggins]

Draft

- select Diamond Stone with pick 22

Free Agency

Current contracts + Batum, Marv, Lee, and Daniels cap holds = 82.3 million

- Sign Jerryd Bayless - 2/12 with year 2 player option = 88.3
- Resign Batum - 5/110 = 90.6
- Resign Marv - 3/33 = 92.5
- Resign Lee - 3/27 = 93
- Resign Daniels - 1/2 = 93.8
- Sign Seth Curry - 1/2 = 95.8
- MLE Jon Leuer - 2/11 = 101.3

Kemba/Bayless/Curry
Batum/Lamb/Daniels
MKG/Lee
Marv/Frank/Leuer
Zeller/Stone/Hawes

Pretty sure that works. Might have to package Hawes with a future 2nd for expirings (I don't fully understand the empty roster spot cap holds?) and also pay Bayless/Lin a little more to make it work.

Same system. Same major players. More depth, young talent, and room for internal growth. That team might be a fringe ECF threat and should at least make it past the first round.

[phillycheese]

Five guys who can do what Nic can and better - LeBron, Durant, Butler, Leonard, Butler. You can probably add Hayward, Paul George, Giannis and Gallinieri, Parsons to that list as well. Not sure green and Griffin can guard 2s consistently.

[yosemiteben]

Five guys who can do what Nic can and better - LeBron, Durant, Butler, Leonard, Butler. You can probably add Hayward, Paul George, Giannis and Gallinieri, Parsons to that list as well. Not sure green and Griffin can guard 2s consistently.

Even if I agreed with your point, how many of those guys do we have the opportunity to sign?

[kinein]

Five guys who can do what Nic can and better - LeBron, Durant, Butler, Leonard, Butler. You can probably add Hayward, Paul George, Giannis and Gallinieri, Parsons to that list as well. Not sure green and Griffin can guard 2s consistently.

Even if I agreed with your point, how many of those guys do we have the opportunity to sign?

none, which is why nic batum is the #1 priority for the Hornets.

[phillycheese]

Five guys who can do what Nic can and better - LeBron, Durant, Butler, Leonard, Butler. You can probably add Hayward, Paul George, Giannis and Gallinieri, Parsons to that list as well. Not sure green and Griffin can guard 2s consistently.

Even if I agreed with your point, how many of those guys do we have the opportunity to sign?

none, which is why nic batum is the #1 priority for the Hornets.

Exactly. My post was to answer another poster who quoted Cliff, not to suggest that we go after those 5 guys.

[kinein]

Even if I agreed with your point, how many of those guys do we have the opportunity to sign?

none, which is why nic batum is the #1 priority for the Hornets.

Exactly. My post was to answer another poster who quoted Cliff, not to suggest that we go after those 5 guys.

yup, I think we are all on the same page.

[m40]

If hornets can manage to resign all those FAs and get a better C; hornets will have a better chance to second round next season;

How Lin Lee MKG Batum Walker's minutes should be arranged is the critical part

[Snidely FC]

I've been saying for years that I can't enjoy this team with Al Jefferson on it. I hate how little effort he gives on defense. But, I have to say that the way Cliff used him since he returned from injury made a lot of sense and turned him into a real weapon. The question is, does Al accept a salary commensurate with second team usage? I'm talking $7-8 Mln a year. That's what I think he's worth. And then if Al accepts that the question is are you better off using that on a younger two way player - someone like Tyler Zeller, who is going to be a comedown on offense, but fits pretty well with what Cliff is trying to do?

[Roy Tarpley]

I agree that Marv is more valuable to the team than Lin based on last year's stats and available replacements.

But what made Lin so critical was his value per dollar. For $2m/year, the Hornets got a two-way player that played two positions, served a pivotal role in wins over the Cavs, Spurs, Raptors, and Celtics, attracted millions of new fans from across the world, was involved significantly in the community, and even reinvigorated the team's Bible study sessions.

Some of this is replaceable, but not all of it, and certainly not at $2m/year. Even re-signing Lin won't provide the same value because it'll be for a higher price.

[bws94]

I agree that Marv is more valuable to the team than Lin based on last year's stats and available replacements.

But what made Lin so critical was his value per dollar. For $2m/year, the Hornets got a two-way player that played two positions, served a pivotal role in wins over the Cavs, Spurs, Raptors, and Celtics, attracted millions of new fans from across the world, was involved significantly in the community, and even reinvigorated the team's Bible study sessions.

Some of this is replaceable, but not all of it, and certainly not at $2m/year. Even re-signing Lin won't provide the same value because it'll be for a higher price.

He served a pivotal role in all 3 playoff wins. He had a way of being a big-game player. Marv was the defensive anchor of the team and in many regular season games, a very productive offensive player. They are great friends. Both were big on the team. Lin's contract isn't even realistic, it was one of those weird bargains that comes along rarely but it's done with now and he should get paid if not what he can get, something more representative of his worth.

In the playoffs I saw what could happen with Lin and Kemba. Batum takes a big load off of Kemba with his playmaking, Lin and Kemba could be the "slash brothers". Will it happen? May not but you never know.

[LofJ]

There is a potential, cheaper alternative to Marvin that has not been discussed - Terrence Jones. He had a disaster of a season, but the talent has always been there. His ideal playstyle is the exact same as Marvin's and he's 5 years younger. He's also a more physical player than Marvin and as such is a superior rebounder.

That said he isn't the shooter that Marvin is and there are concerns with regards to his mental toughness. So we'd take a step back replacing Marvin with him in the short-term, but the potential payoff is much greater. We also wouldn't feel pressured to play him as much as Marvin, which would open up more minutes for Frank. If we bring in another strong character player (Noah) to replace what Marvin gave us there I think we'd be happy with the results.

Kemba/Lin
Batum/Lamb
MKG/Draft
Jones/Frank
Noah/Zeller/Hawes