Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1

[ChokeFasncists]

Cumulative +/- for the playoff series

Batum -86
Jefferson -64
Walker -62
Lee -17
Kaminsky -12
Zeller +3
Lin +5

Impressive!

Kinda surprising for Cody, who was demolished by the Whitebackside. I guess the Lin/Hawes/Cody lineup worked great. Where's Hawes btw? It was too bad Al sucks at D, got injured/suspended and came back from the bench. Otherwise that trio would have been gold. Well, next year? Will Cho be able to sign a starting quality center? We shall see.

[yosemiteben]

Kinda surprising for Cody, who was demolished by the Whitebackside...

He wasn't though. They barely played at the same time.

[leeramundo]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/charlotte-hornets/article75213027.html

I expect him to stay.

[kinein]

Yeah Beverley was just a better fit with harden. Harden is ball dominant and so you want to pair him with a great shooter/defender like Beverley not a penetrator like lin. Harden is a defecto point guard on offense

Can u stop logging into your troll account just to troll hornet fans on a hornet board, I've been reading your posts and your consistently trolling

[2k15]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/charlotte-hornets/article75213027.html

I expect him to stay.

i was expecting something groundbreaking in the piece since you are so definitive but it is basically a transcript of his exit interview

[phillycheese]

. And I'm not happy with Lin eager about volunteering to take a discount to come back..

Please show me where Lin said this. I think he said money was not that important to him, but that he recognises money is a proxy for other things like a team's respect and they have more invested in you the more they pay you. He also said he needed to talk to his agent first as free agency was not on his mind. Anything else is a reader's inference.

[PG13]

Hilarious zoom in on Lin's face:

https://streamable.com/w2em


And a guy on reddit increased the zoom:

https://streamable.com/ne12

It's not an original idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_gwbGicnYo

The Starters say: "This ESPN cameraman with no regard to human sadness"

[phillycheese]

Look at it this way, if Lin really wanted to stay and if money was really not the issue, then he has 100% control - as he is still under contract. He should not opt out, then he gets his wish. But Lin did not say that either, so that means money is an issue. Charlotte could not offer him more last year because they were capped out. This year is another matter. Taking a 10%-20% discount is one thing, taking a 50% is a whole different matter. Any team asking Lin to take a 50% discount is insulting him and not really valuing him.

[steady]

Hilarious zoom in on Lin's face:

https://streamable.com/w2em


And a guy on reddit increased the zoom:

https://streamable.com/ne12

lol , as soon as the Simon and Garfunkel started ...

[ChokeFasncists]

https://jlinforum.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/the-stereotypical-subliminal-perception-of-jeremy-lin/

This is a super nice article about Lin, about people's subliminal perception of him. It is exactly how I feel that people always use a different standard on him, and would never give him credit, and always consider him have not proved himself.

I have seen people blame him cost the game of G6, but I have seen nobody pin any player down on G1, G2 and G7. Yes, all other players got a pass, even they got eaten in the defensive end, even they clucked a lot more shots, no, other players only carried the team, they never cost a game.

But to Lin, it is totally different, his missed shot always cost a game, his TO always changed the tide, his fouls always momentum changer.

I don't think that's hater, but that is so strong subliminal double standard, and yet a lot people don't realize they possess.

It is what it is, especially if it's RAS (talked about in the comments), just gotta Neal wit it, try to improve and play well more consistently.

Fearing that one bad game would erase the whole season is definitely worrying too much. He had three great games that resulted in win, had one bad game, then bounced back and played well but didn't get enough opportunity. The trajectory is obviously on the up.

[bricking_2016]

I'm a long time lurker and LoF (I'll admit I'm a LoF so we can get that point out of the way). I read the Charlotte Observer's article about Jeremy Lin and that's good news for people that want to keep Lin in Charlotte.

However, you have to take everything in context. What Lin means is that if he only gets offers for a backup role on other teams throughout the NBA, he will most likely take Charlotte's offer and may even take a pay cut to stay with Charlotte. Keyword here is backup role and backup minutes, which is all Charlotte and Clifford ever promised him.

When Lin opts out, if another team gives him a starter role with starter minutes and a reasonable salary, if Lin thinks he is a good fit for that team, and that team isn't projected to be the "bottom of the barrel" for results next season, I don't see how Lin won't leave Charlotte.

The cold hard truth is, Lin shone brightly in Charlotte because of injuries. In general, Lin is the type of player that plays better with more minutes. He struggled the most when MKG came back and Charlotte obtained Lee, and all starters were health. Lin's minutes were cut with Lee and a healthy MKG in the starting line up.

The problem is, Lin knows going into next season, if all players are healthy for Charlotte, he simply won't get too many minutes. He can't expect to get more playing time based on major injuries (such as MKG) to the starters. Now if another team comes and offers Lin a starting PG job, Lin knows he will automatically get plenty of playing time. While Lin would have to play well to keep his starting job as a PG for another team, it would be his job to lose.

This is where fit with the other team and also salary comes into play. The other team that makes Lin a starting PG role will have to also convince Lin that he is a good fit for their system and this is something Lin will consider. For example, if a Byron Scott Lakers type of team made an offer to Lin as a starting PG, I can see Lin turning it down because Lin knows he doesn't fit in that type of system and Lin would ultimately lose his job as a starting PG (using Byron Scott as an example even though he is fired). To a certain extent, I think Lin is flexible on salary. My guess is, Lin would take up to a 30% pay cut if he thinks he would be a better fit as a backup PG in Charlotte versus another backup PG role offered elsewhere. This is really good news for Charlotte - if another team offers Lin a backup PG role with a higher salary, I honestly don't think Lin would leave, provided Charlotte offers Lin a salary within 30% of the offer of the other team (or perhaps Charlotte offers him a longer contract to offset the lower salary).

The problem for Charlotte is if another "semi-competitive" team comes and offers Lin a starting PG role, with starter minutes, and their system and coach is also a good fit for Lin. Provided this team doesn't lowball Lin on salary (ie. they offer Lin the lower end of a starting PG salary - something reasonable even though it is lower - but don't lowball him completely), I can't see Lin turning it down.

If you are a backup PG for Charlotte and you know your minutes will be limited if the roster is healthy, and another team comes and offers you a starting PG role with starter minutes and you feel that you are a good fit for this team, wouldn't you leave Charlotte for an opportunity with this team? Of course, the quality of other team will also be a factor (ie. if they're expected to have a horrible record next season and are expected to miss the playoffs, Lin would consider that too). If this team is going to be "bottom of the barrel" next season, even if it's a good fit for Lin and they offer a starting PG role, I can see Lin turning it down because he may not want to be on a losing team for the next several seasons.

TLDR:
- If Lin only gets backup PG offers from other teams, provided Charlotte gives Lin a reasonable offer, Lin stays with Charlotte.
- If another team offers Lin a starting PG role with starter minutes, and the system and coach for that team is a good fit for Lin, and that team is "semi-competitive" (ie. has something of a chance of making the playoffs and isn't "bottom of the barrel"), and that team doesn't "lowball" Lin's salary, I think Lin leaves Charlotte.

[m40]

Honestly, I don't know why Lin accepted the 2 years 4.3M while Jeremy Lamb signed 3 years $21 million.
Before 2016, JLin scored PPG 11-12 in average while JLamb was about PPG 7-8.
And what Lin brings to Hornets is not just the game but also a big potion of fans from Greater China and Asia.
I am not saying JLamb is not worthy the price but how home JLin has such a low pay?

I know Lin is a "good' guy who just enjoys playing basketball but Hornets please respect player who contributes to the team. Money is not about everything but it shows how the team values the player. From now, it just shows how bad MJ and Hornets management is to make good use of Lin 's kindness.

If Hornets just love to keep their money and offer 2-3M a year to Lin, I fully support Lin to go to BKN if they can offer a starting PG with 8-10M a year contract, and good to see how hornets get out of the list of PO in 2017 season - and turn back to be a Bobcat hornet.

[bricking_2016]

Honestly, I don't know why Lin accepted the 2 years 4.3M while Jeremy Lamb signed 3 years $21 million.
Before 2016, JLin scored PPG 11-12 in average while JLamb was about PPG 7-8.
And what Lin brings to Hornets is not just the game but also a big potion of fans from Greater China and Asia.
I am not saying JLamb is not worthy the price but how home JLin has such a low pay?

I know Lin is a "good' guy who just enjoys playing basketball but Hornets please respect player who contributes to the team. Money is not about everything but it shows how the team values the player. From now, it just shows how bad MJ and Hornets management is to make good use of Lin 's kindness.

If Hornets just love to keep their money and offer 2-3M a year to Lin, I fully support Lin to go to BKN if they can offer a starting PG with 8-10M a year contract, and good to see how hornets get out of the list of PO in 2017 season.

Lin took on the 2 year x 2.2 million deal because he needed to showcase himself for a contract this year on a team where he fits. Based on the news, he was in contention for a starting PG spot with Dallas but that fell out when Deandre Jordan reneged with Dallas, leaving Lin to scramble for a contract.

Lin has probably showcased himself well enough and there is a chance he may get a starting PG offer. But like I said in my post above, it's not just a starting PG offer that can sway Lin to leave Charlotte. I think Lin will consider other things such as fit, salary offered, and the expected record of the team. All things being equal, if Lin only receives backup PG role offers and no starting PG offers, Lin will stay in Charlotte, provided Charlotte offers him a reasonable salary.

[ChokeFasncists]

https://jlinforum.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/the-stereotypical-subliminal-perception-of-jeremy-lin/

This is a super nice article about Lin, about people's subliminal perception of him. It is exactly how I feel that people always use a different standard on him, and would never give him credit, and always consider him have not proved himself.

I have seen people blame him cost the game of G6, but I have seen nobody pin any player down on G1, G2 and G7. Yes, all other players got a pass, even they got eaten in the defensive end, even they clucked a lot more shots, no, other players only carried the team, they never cost a game.

But to Lin, it is totally different, his missed shot always cost a game, his TO always changed the tide, his fouls always momentum changer.

I don't think that's hater, but that is so strong subliminal double standard, and yet a lot people don't realize they possess.

Blatantly higher standards for Lin, that are never good enough, might be part of the equation for people who have serious anti-Jeremy Lin/Asian folk bias, but I think for most normal folks, the specter of Linsanity blooming again is actually more of a driving factor than subliminal racism (in terms of how people gauge Lin's play).

I'd break it down like this.

You have to believe in someone's higher potential, for it to even be a possibility to be disappointed in them.

For example, I really like Marvin Williams. I think he was probably the 3rd or 4th most important player on this team this year--but at the end of the day--I am not overly disappointed in his performance in the Heat series, because I saw that he thrived as spot-up shooter during the regular season, and since the Heat took that away, why should I expect him to be capable of playing beyond his means if they took his 3-ball away?

When Courtney Lee didn't play well because he was missing all of his midrange J's in several games--I was not disappointed in him either. Why should I be, when Courtney only has midrange pull-ups and spot-up 3s? He's never been anything other than "super-solid", so I can't expect him to play behind his means either. He doesn't have the skill-set to do that.

So even when these guys like Marv and Courtney (who are very solid NBA players) don't play well, I instinctively won't get as much heat to them, and I don't think the common NBA fan will either--because their ceilings aren't usually game-changers.

But Jeremy Lin is different for most casual fans. That guy is known as the author of Linsanity--and not only that--he just had 3 tremendous performances which invoked the image of those days to some lesser degree. Yes, it wasn't Linsanity itself--but still--it invoked the image of it.

So now some people are pumped--they want another great Lin performance--they're definitely not expecting some great Courtney Lee performance or some Marvin Williams performance. They want a Lin performance. And when they get a stinker--they're going to be extremely disappointed--focusing on how much Jeremy sucked that night.

Is that fair? Well, it comes with the territory when great things can be expected of you. If you get pumped up from three wins--you're going to pump yourself up for the fourth one--and when it bails on you... You're getting wrecked in salt mines.

But that right there--that is the Jeremy Lin paradox itself--because to a certain degree; Jeremy Lin was never supposed to happen. Y'all know the story. Undrafted, cut three times, New York, blah blah blah.

But think about it this way. So Lin blew up once upon a time ago in New York--and when he cooled down--the natural instinct was to call him a fluke. But then he plays well again during certain stretches, and the hype slowly grumbles up again. But wait--how can a guy who is regularly called a fluke--also simultaneously garner the genuine hype and expectation to deliver a great performance...if he's a fluke? That's the Jeremy Lin paradox; the looming genuine expectation of hype, while also bracing for the event that if the hype doesn't occur--you can easily say it was all a dream--but hey, if it does occur--GET HYPE!

So why does this even exist?

Human nature, the history of Linsanity, Jeremy's an Asian dude, etc. It's a mix of things--but I think deep inside--most people just want to believe in Jeremy more. He's likeable--it's fun to watch when he's on--you want to root for him. After the high of Linsanity, some people will always have a spot inside of them where they simultaneously expect more out of him, yet are also quick to pull the trigger on the "fluke button" when things go awry. And that again--is the Jeremy Lin Paradox--it is how he can be the most criticized 2 million dollar player in the league.

One thing is, he is definitely a controversial figure; people either love him or hate him kinda thing. He elicits extreme reactions. He's not a regular or average specimen.

Another thing is, it's kinda like miracle. Some firmly believe in it, some vehemently oppose its possibility, some people in between wish for it to be true and would be disappointed when they find out it's actually just something normal; some people are skeptical and want to be like "told ya"; yet some people are like, it's probably not possible, but maybe it is, why not, who knows?

And then there's Tebow. He was more hyped than others because of extra-ball reasons and it's understandable that even tho the reasons might make sense, a lot of people that aren't necessarily associated to those reasons are angry about it. The story behind Lin is even more out of the ordinary.

Good thing is, a lot of pros who know a thing or two about playing PG understand that he's underrated. People might choose to ignore them in favor of their own position, but then what does one do?

[bws94]

Whether Lin wants to start or not is up to him. The only mention I remember about him starting is you have to play differently and approach the game differently from the bench than as a starter. He also said he's the leader of the 2nd unit and it's his job to get them going. He's more a 6th man that backup PG on this team anyway, he has a huge, important role (and I'm considering Lin a Hornet until he says he's not). What he wants to do going forward may or may not include him starting and I follow Lin and root for him, I'm a fan, and I accept that. My feeling is he can produce if he's on the floor long enough so it is minutes and consistency of minutes that matters most, not starting IMO.

[Lorenzomax7]

all the hype about lin having a great year in charlotte is interesting. He really just benefitted from much lower expectations here and from us being much better than the lakers. Our fans aren't as rabid as the lakers and we've had really poor backup pg situation for many of our years.

I mean statistically his shooting numbers dipped a bit, his steals and assists dipped dramatically, his turnovers only improved slightly.

I'm not really sure why everyone thinks he had some sort of career renaissance. I think he showed he's a capable player at two positions which helps his value a little. He stayed healthy so that helps as well.

His expectations were a lot lower on a small contract i think that's really the big difference. I can't imagine he did anything to establish his value as a full time starter though.

What were the rumored teams interested in him last season besides us, anyone know?

I just can't see what he did to establish much more value than he already had last offseason. Other than getting the stink of that horrible lakers team off of him and the cap spike of course...

There is no hype. What u said is right though... It's the expectation was so low for him this year, giving people the impression he had a better year than yeas in rockets and lakers... And the consensus is lin found his role in this league as a combo guard a sixth man... It seems lin himself agrees now... He actually performed similarly in the Lakers...
I still think his years in rockets were better, as bad as he performed at times, they still called him solid starter, a 16-20 ranked pg in the league... People and himself had high hopes in lakers thought he would make the leap without the presence of harden, byron Scott ruined him, he did not fight back...
In he real, his career is still trending downward... As a fan, it is sad to see

A simplest way to know how good Lin has played for the Hornets AS A STARER?
Check the stats here :

12/13, 82 gm, 13.4p 3.0r 6.4a +2.7 in 32.2 min
FG:44.1% 3P:33.9% FT:78.5% TS:53.8% USG:20.8


13/14, 33 gm, 14.2p 2.7r 4.5a +3.8 in 33.9 min
FG:44.1% 3P:38.19% FT:83.5% TS:57.6% USG:20.4


14/15, 30 gm, 11.9p 2.8r 4.7a -13.7 in 29.0 min
FG:42.2% 3P:36.0% FT:84.3% TS:54.5% USG:20.9


15/16, 13 gm, 17.5p 4.0r 4.8a in 34.4 min
FG:46.1% 3P:46.0% FT:82.5% TS:58.9% USG:22.8


Career, 183 gm, 14.2p 3.1r 5.7a in 32.2 min
FG:44.1% 3P:36.1% FT:80.8% TS:55.2% USG:21.9



similarly? low expectation? or that lil Lin just simply played better as a starter when you need him to be? ya I know Batum is no Kobe or Harden but hell it's human life that the fans feel that Lin has a better year.

[bws94]

@lorenzo, 82 games as a starter, 13.4. The one you have so bold in purple is for 13 games. We've seen Lin do well in both starting and bench roles and you know, maybe it is more due to touches and minutes and maybe who isn't on the court so he has to do more, vs. anything else.

[hood30]

@lorenzo, 82 games as a starter, 13.4. The one you have so bold in purple is for 13 games. We've seen Lin do well in both starting and bench roles and you know, maybe it is more due to touches and minutes and maybe who isn't on the court so he has to do more, vs. anything else.

In my opinion, Lin is better when he's given a bigger role with more minutes and I don't think it was a co incidence that he was at his best when he started...

If you take a closer look at his stats as a starter and a bench player, you will see a massive difference in his FG% points and minutes...As a bench player, he's shooting below 40% with a 30% 3pointFG in only 24 minutes.......

Now compare that to his 13 start stats of 46%FG% AND 41%3PTFG in 34 large minutes.....So Lin has been very bad as a bench player when you compare that to his stats as a starter..and I don't believe this was by coincidence...He plays better when he's offered minutes and a bigger role and that only comes as a starter for the most part.

Also, as I've stated in other message board, starting has massive benefits and one of them are guaranteed big minutes and you can also take proper rest in between quarters and come back to finish the games.

As a bench player, you are limited to a certain amount of minutes but in the few games when you play very well which forces the coach to keep you in the game, you will play too many straight minutes thus no rest time.

Lin even talk about this in one of the playoff press conference..That was the game when he told Kemba he was too tired and that he should take over.

So as a bench player, the negative side of it is you don't get to rest much and have to play about 18 straight minutes with no rest while the starter can rest in between quarter and come back to finish.

Lin is also a rhythm player thus he does best when he's given at least 30 minutes or more. Problem is it's a bad idea to do this when coming off the bench since that guy will be too tired to finish.

So I prefer Lin to start than come off the bench because the benefit of starting is clear to see..It's not meaningless. You ask Kemba whether he'd rather come off the bench or start. Most players would prefer to start for obvious reasons.

[fatlever]

Honestly, I don't know why Lin accepted the 2 years 4.3M while Jeremy Lamb signed 3 years $21 million.
Before 2016, JLin scored PPG 11-12 in average while JLamb was about PPG 7-8.
And what Lin brings to Hornets is not just the game but also a big potion of fans from Greater China and Asia.
I am not saying JLamb is not worthy the price but how home JLin has such a low pay?

I know Lin is a "good' guy who just enjoys playing basketball but Hornets please respect player who contributes to the team. Money is not about everything but it shows how the team values the player. From now, it just shows how bad MJ and Hornets management is to make good use of Lin 's kindness.

If Hornets just love to keep their money and offer 2-3M a year to Lin, I fully support Lin to go to BKN if they can offer a starting PG with 8-10M a year contract, and good to see how hornets get out of the list of PO in 2017 season - and turn back to be a Bobcat hornet.

Not really a good start to posting here. I'm not really interested in reading complaints about a contract that Lin signed last summer nor complaints about how the Hornets management is "bad" to Lin and insinuating that they used him and took advantage of him. There are plenty of other Lin fan sites that might share that point of view, so feel free to post there.

We've also made it painfully clear about promoting Lin to other teams in this thread.

Two strikes = timeout

[haoafu]

Lin's good at playing PNR as main ball handler. In that role he's a star with some turnover and stamina issues, but he can do everything else at high leverl - scoring, assisting, rebounding, blocking, stealing... The problem is not every team has that system, and even fewer teams are willing to give him that role.

Otherwise he's undersized at SG and his catch and shoot ability is not as good as his shooting off dribble. Lin's a very different player being utilized in different systems, due to his unique skillset.