Gerald Henderson

[Elden Payton]

I don't blame them, it is kinda hard to grasp.

(although long time fans should know the system by now)

The system is still poor and gives too much credence to athleticism in the overall ratings.

Agreed but I still can't grasp how many longterm fans don't understand why Dirk is rated 83 and Jefferson is 84 etc.

[Beardman]

I don't blame them, it is kinda hard to grasp.

(although long time fans should know the system by now)

The system is still poor and gives too much credence to athleticism in the overall ratings.

I won't disagree. Vertical and athleticism has too much impact on player performance during gameplay ...Exhibit A : Gerald Green.

[tsherkin]

When you model your game after Kobe then you're bound to break out of scrub status at one point. Trust me i've watched DeMar adopt a post game to mirror his idol and now he's above average offensively.

Mmmm... Were he permitted to USE the post game more frequently, sure. He's still 2% below league average TS and almost 3 points below league-average ORTG (and that close only because he's good about not turning the ball over). He's a marginal passer without 3pt range and a fairly pedestrian finishing ability between the rim and the foul line. He's posting almost 18 ppg, but I don't know how far above average I'd really be claiming him as being, given all that. He's not worth the usage rate he's got right now, not the way he's being employed. He attacks well in transition and he's good when he gets a full head of steam going to rim, plus he's got a solid long jumper when he gets a good pass, but his handle is underwhelming, he's league average at drawing fouls (which is mediocre for a significant volume scorer)...

I mean, he underwhelms in almost every category besides dunk highlights. Bleh, not a great comparison, although again, in Demar's favor, Casey is stupid.

[tsherkin]

I won't disagree. Vertical and athleticism has too much impact on player performance during gameplay ...Exhibit A : Gerald Green.

Yeah, grrr. Vertical is perhaps the single-most overrated trait in basketball, in the video game and otherwise.

[ComboGuardCity]

Speed + 3s + Vertical is the formula for 2K star.

[Elden Payton]

Also my point tsherkin, I really like Derozan but is he worth 9.5m for as you described "underwhelming".

[Beardman]

When you model your game after Kobe then you're bound to break out of scrub status at one point. Trust me i've watched DeMar adopt a post game to mirror his idol and now he's above average offensively.

Mmmm... Were he permitted to USE the post game more frequently, sure. He's still 2% below league average TS and almost 3 points below league-average ORTG (and that close only because he's good about not turning the ball over). He's a marginal passer without 3pt range and a fairly pedestrian finishing ability between the rim and the foul line. He's posting almost 18 ppg, but I don't know how far above average I'd really be claiming him as being, given all that. He's not worth the usage rate he's got right now, not the way he's being employed. He attacks well in transition and he's good when he gets a full head of steam going to rim, plus he's got a solid long jumper when he gets a good pass, but his handle is underwhelming, he's league average at drawing fouls (which is mediocre for a significant volume scorer)...

I mean, he underwhelms in almost every category besides dunk highlights. Bleh, not a great comparison, although again, in Demar's favor, Casey is stupid.

I wonder though, how much some of the marginal improvement as of late could be credited to Gay's presence.

[tsherkin]

Speed + 3s + Vertical is the formula for 2K star.

100%

Rush out in transition and bomb 3s and you're a king. You don't even need quickness for the lateral attack from the dribble. Blech.

[HornetJail]

I'm interested to see where you guys would rank Hendo among all other SG's in the league.

[tsherkin]

I wonder though, how much some of the marginal improvement as of late could be credited to Gay's presence.

What improvement? He looks basically identical to last season, except when he's permitted to post. A little more aggressive occasionally, but third year in a row, he looks pretty much the same. Nothing special is happening in his game and even the post game won't matter that much if his usage increases there. Not unless it's TRULY special, like good enough to be the foundational component of his offensive approach.

[tsherkin]

I'm interested to see where you guys would rank Hendo among all other SG's in the league.

It wouldn't be high. He's not that useful a player yet, not in significant minutes. He's pretty underwhelming in most respects. I mean, as a bench player, sure, he's got utility, but he's outside of the top 30 at first pass, probably lower than that when you consider strong 6MOY types.

[Beardman]

I wonder though, how much some of the marginal improvement as of late could be credited to Gay's presence.

What improvement? He looks basically identical to last season, except when he's permitted to post. A little more aggressive occasionally, but third year in a row, he looks pretty much the same. Nothing special is happening in his game and even the post game won't matter that much if his usage increases there. Not unless it's TRULY special, like good enough to be the foundational component of his offensive approach.

I don't entirely agree, I have noticed some augmentation to his midrange. he has become a bit more crafty in getting his shot off from there, and his passing while on the move has also improved from what I've watched.

[HornetJail]

I'm interested to see where you guys would rank Hendo among all other SG's in the league.

It wouldn't be high. He's not that useful a player yet, not in significant minutes. He's pretty underwhelming in most respects. I mean, as a bench player, sure, he's got utility, but he's outside of the top 30 at first pass, probably lower than that when you consider strong 6MOY types.

Outside of the top 30??? I'll be impressed if you can list 15-20.

[tsherkin]

Also my point tsherkin, I really like Derozan but is he worth 9.5m for as you described "underwhelming".

Nope, no he isn't. Apart from an early season burst, he hasn't performed any different than years before and there was vitriol in the pre-season over his extension. He's not worth a major investment and is another Colangelo mistake. Now, from a standpoint of fan excitement and needing someone to pin hope on and stuff, I kind of get it (timing and what-not aside) but ultimately, it's a terrible decision for winning games, that much is clear. Nice kid, but not a focal offensive player.

I don't entirely agree, I have noticed some augmentation to his midrange. he has become a bit more crafty in getting his shot off from there, and his passing while on the move has also improved from what I've watched.

I guess that depends on how you define "mid-range."

10-15' / 16-23'

2012: 40.7 / 34.3
2013: 38.6 / 40.3

We've seen improvement in his perimeter two-point shooting (especially from the left side), but have actually seen backslide from 10-15 feet. It's not sufficient to be happy, though, since he hasn't improved in any other area to a meaningful extent. You can't build an offensive attack around 40% jumpers that the other team is more likely to rebound.

[Beardman]

Meh the increase from 16-beyond is good enough to make the backslide from 10-15 a wash. Still not outstanding i guess.

[Elden Payton]

There is no wash when your mid game is sub 40 percent as a SG who cannot consistently create his own shot off the dribble.

[tsherkin]

Outside of the top 30??? I'll be impressed if you can list 15-20.

You asked, I answered. I don't think much of Henderson because he's an inefficient player who doesn't offer much besides sub-37% 3P shooting.

Crawford and Billups are both better. Jason Terry. DeShawn Stevenson, Avery Bradley, Courtney Lee, OJ Mayo, Harden, Carlos Delfino, Kobe, Wade, JJ Redick (though he's been worse since the trade), Wesley Matthews, Tyreke Evans, Danny Green, Manu, Randy Foye....

Honorable Mention: A somewhat-healthy Eric Gordon (though we do know that he's basically never healthy).

You wanted 15-20, there you go. I could go on, that's just a quick look at starters at prominent bench guys.

That doesn't even touch on guys who are of comparable ability and thus debatably better, like DeRozan.

[tsherkin]

Meh the increase from 16-beyond is good enough to make the backslide from 10-15 a wash. Still not outstanding i guess.

It's neutral, though, it doesn't represent an improvement. That much is borne out by his TS% and ORTG, which are in the same range as the two previous seasons, better than last year but worse than the year before and still craptacular.

[The MVPlaya]

DeShawn Stevenson?

[Elden Payton]

No offense but that list is horrible tsherkin

Billups? Delfino? Bradley? Green? Foye? Redick? Stevenson? Lee?

Terrible.