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tsherkin wrote:

YogurtProducer wrote:Exactly, it is much harder to do that in the NBA - which is why in the 0.000000000000000001% chance LBJ did it that would vault him into consensus goat territory.

But it's sort of daft, because there really isn't any chance that it'll happen. There are better guys in the league, he may not even be IN the league in 3 years, and even if he matches production, his impact isn't there. And he may well not even meet the minimum GP requirements. And it's more likely his minutes will keep dropping, etc.

Like, there's a reason that in the entire history of the NBA stretching back to the 55-56 season, no one has won an MVP past the age of 35 and only Karl Malone and Michael Jordan have done it at older than 34. The idea that nearly a decade deeper into his life, Lebron will, is frankly ludicrous.

EDIT: And that's not even accounting for up-and-comers who, in a couple of years will be in the MVP race.

Sure - but when someone posts a hypothetical what is the point of coming in here and saying "well it is not going to happen, so why even discuss it".

It is a message board - it is a fun hypothetical, that probably is not going to happen.

art_tatum wrote:Are we really just looking at raw stats still with selective cut offs, even so guys like luka and joker and a lot of players blow those stats out the water if you don't randomly put that cutoff.

A guy lebrons size with his improved shot (people still don't give him enough credit or defense on) he can avg 25:5:5 for a couple more years. Especially since he handles the ball a decent amount.
The problem is those raw numbers will get less and less effective towards winning. For him to win mvp he will have to have a spike in output.

How much will it add to his legacy? An mvp definitely will, but if he's just putting up numbers not too much imo since he already is the points leader and probably the goat of longevity.
If he isn't your goat now, which he still isn't to a majority, then I don't see how a couple more seasons will change that. Championships and mvp will tho.

If he can pull off 1 mvp and 1 chip, I think it might get to 50% - 60% goat consensus

I am still waiting for you to post these stats, ya know, concrete evidence that actually supports what you're saying.

Lebron's defensive winshares and blocks per game are right where they were ten years ago.

MVPs are partially a team award
If he was on a team like the 2004-7 Pistons - all around really good players, 55ish wins without him -> 65ish with him, noone having Lebrons offensive numbers ... he could conceivably get an MVP, especially if the team suddenly improves. If he takes a discount salary like Duncan he could fit on a good team salary-wise
Iverson, Nash, Kobe and Rose weren't any better than 39 yo LeBron in their MVP seasons.

But all those awards by media nitwits are of questionable value anyway

His scoring is smooth as hell.

If Jokic Luka SGA all get injured, wait no not even then. His team was a play in team like it has been every year. They have no way of adding a star to him an AD they're not going to be a top 3 seed.

YogurtProducer wrote:Sure - but when someone posts a hypothetical what is the point of coming in here and saying "well it is not going to happen, so why even discuss it".

It is a message board - it is a fun hypothetical, that probably is not going to happen.

I guess I hear you, it's just so ridiculous as to be not worth consideration.

If he did, it would be the most unexpected thing in league history. Such an outlier performance that he'd handily be the GOAT at that point because no one else, ever, had even come close to that sort of performance. Particularly with the level of play he'd require in order to win it.

Remember, he was quite productive and good enough this season and he wasn't even close, right? He was 10th last season in the MVP vote, though obviously at 55 games, he wasn't meriting full consideration. But based on what SGA, Jokic, Luka and Giannis have been doing, Lebron would have to step it up to a level we haven't seen from him since 2022, right? But really, more like 2013 or 2014. He'd need to be a .270+ WS/48, 7.5+ OBPM, >= +7.0 O-EPM type player to even be IN the conversation.

So yeah, that would be the greatest season in league history, because it's effectively impossible to conceive happening. But it would certainly shut a lot of mouths yapping about Lebron didn't do this and Lebron was never that.

tsherkin wrote:no one else, ever, had even come close to that sort of performance.

So, Lebron's career in a nutshell then as of today?

What if he doesn't?

The-Stallion70 wrote:

tsherkin wrote:no one else, ever, had even come close to that sort of performance.

So, Lebron's career in a nutshell then as of today?

I'm not sure what this was intended to mean.

The-Stallion70 wrote:This year he averaged 26, 7 and 8 at 39 years old.

Among players this season who averaged 22+ PTS, 6+ REBS & 5+ ASTS:

Paolo Banchero -78 games played
Nikola Jokic - 77 games played
Giannis Antetokounmpo - 73 games played
Luka Doncic - 69 games played

Lebron James - 69 games played

Julius Randle - 46 games played
Joel Embiid - 38 games played

He is performing at the same superstar level and doing at much or more than guys who were in diapers the same year he came into the league.

Is this his best argument for being the GOAT? His rediculous longevity?

What if he keeps playing up to this level into his mid and late 40s?

More impressed if he could play to late 50s with his grandson on the same team.

tsherkin wrote:

Swish77 wrote: Bulls? Idk about that.

Chicago did a dramatically superior job putting talent around Jordan compared to Cleveland around Lebron before he left to Miami. That isn't actually even close to a debatable point.

You make Jamison cry heavy tears

Michael Jackson wrote:

tsherkin wrote:

Swish77 wrote: Bulls? Idk about that.

Chicago did a dramatically superior job putting talent around Jordan compared to Cleveland around Lebron before he left to Miami. That isn't actually even close to a debatable point.

You make Jamison cry heavy tears

Good.

tsherkin wrote:

Michael Jackson wrote:

tsherkin wrote:
Chicago did a dramatically superior job putting talent around Jordan compared to Cleveland around Lebron before he left to Miami. That isn't actually even close to a debatable point.

You make Jamison cry heavy tears

Good.

In all honesty and I think you and I have had this convo, but Boozer really screwed any chance to realistically build. Not that Boozer was amazing but he was a solid piece and him screwing Paxson threw a wrench in it. I mean getting Atwain when he was washed as a solution was very laughable.

YogurtProducer wrote:

Swish77 wrote:

YogurtProducer wrote:I mean MJ and Kobe also had significantly more talent placed around them from the team who drafted them.

Bulls? Idk about that. Lakers did a overhaul of the team to get Shaq which was the same offseason Kobe was drafted.

Which teammate did LBJ have anywhere near Pippen? Hell - even Rodman?

I read it wrong I thought you meant before he got there. My fault on that.

Michael Jackson wrote:In all honesty and I think you and I have had this convo, but Boozer really screwed any chance to realistically build. Not that Boozer was amazing but he was a solid piece and him screwing Paxson threw a wrench in it. I mean getting Atwain when he was washed as a solution was very laughable.

I agree. Boozer was good enough to cause issues, for sure. And Twan was not an appropriate addition. He was crap on D to begin with, and 33 when they got him late into Lebron's first run with the Cavs. Health already unraveling. And they put him next to Old Shaq. Like, how was that ever supposed to work out?

What if MJ unretired and won 10 more championships? Would he be the GOAT?

then i'd say tarentino has gone too far with his alternate universe films and should cut back on the booze

LeBron is not even the best player on the Lakers.

If his name was “James Burlivest” or something you’d be ranking his season this year as maybe top 20.

Because it is LeBron, you keep wanting to rank him higher due to his past.

lakerz12 wrote:LeBron is not even the best player on the Lakers.

Yes he is. By basically every available measure, and from every available angle.

Davis is good, but Lebron is still better, and no one else comes close.

lakerz12 wrote:LeBron is not even the best player on the Lakers.

If his name was “James Burlivest” or something you’d be ranking his season this year as maybe top 20.

Because it is LeBron, you keep wanting to rank him higher due to his past.

Only top 20 this year?