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Shock Defeat wrote:

DonaldSanders wrote:

pr0wler wrote:
You mean that one whole game in 2019 series vs the Rockets where KD wasn't healthy? Sick sample size bro

CP3 missed game 6, so did Durant. Same situation.

Rockets in 2018 without Paul were gonna beat the Warriors on game 7 until the ref show saved them

I still cant believe how the refs made them shoot and miss 27 3's in a row. Just terrible officiating.

Shock Defeat wrote:

DonaldSanders wrote:

pr0wler wrote:
You mean that one whole game in 2019 series vs the Rockets where KD wasn't healthy? Sick sample size bro

CP3 missed game 6, so did Durant. Same situation.

Rockets in 2018 without Paul were gonna beat the Warriors on game 7 until the ref show saved them

https://www.espn.com/nba/game/_/gameId/401032767/warriors-rockets

Did the refs cause the Rockets to shoot 7/44 from three that game?

Harden, Ariza and Gordon were a combined 4/34 from three.

I do agree Houston got unlucky with Paul getting hurt but the Rockets just blew that final game.

lebron has 1 bad finals vs the mavs and gets stigamtized for his whole year career. but people doing everything to defend harden, who is a consistent playoff choker. its getting ridiculous in here

Harden has to be the only dude who consistently comes out, single handedly wins his teams playoff games to keep the series alive, and then gets crushed when his team falters.

Sometimes I forget he scored 40+ twice in that series last year to keep Philly in it against Boston with the way you people act.

Okay, he isn't the best closer, his fans will concede that, but where is Joel, Paul, Kawhi, Kyrie, and PG in these moments? Not an excuse, but this guy has been let down by his costars, who all of you will have higher on your ATG lists, more than any other player i've seen play the game of basketball.

The dude delivers these guys wins they never should have, it would be nice for just one of them to return the favor once in a while

He always gives a couple of great games. It's the other 4-5 games he stinks up.

shi-woo wrote:Harden has to be the only dude who consistently comes out, single handedly wins his teams playoff games to keep the series alive, and then gets crushed when his team falters.

Sometimes I forget he scored 40+ twice in that series last year to keep Philly in it against Boston with the way you people act.

Okay, he isn't the best closer, his fans will concede that, but where is Joel, Paul, Kawhi, Kyrie, and PG in these moments? Not an excuse, but this guy has been let down by his costars, who all of you will have higher on your ATG lists, more than any other player i've seen play the game of basketball.

The dude delivers these guys wins they never should have, it would be nice for just one of them to return the favor once in a while

Ssj16 wrote:

EmpireFalls wrote:Luka still hasn’t surpassed peak Harden man. He just hasn’t

How could anyone with a straight face make this comment? Eye test, stats and playoff performance would debunk this easily.

Harden was an amazing player in his prime, but he gets worse in the postseason in just about every category -- box score stats, advanced stats, shooting. Everything. Luka, on the other hand, at least maintains and in some spots improves.

That's a massive point in his favor right there.

shi-woo wrote:Harden has to be the only dude who consistently comes out, single handedly wins his teams playoff games to keep the series alive, and then gets crushed when his team falters.

He shot 2 for 12 with 4 turnovers at home in a pivotal playoff game they lost by 30. He had a massive, massive hand in his team faltering and you're always going to get ripped for that. Especially when you have a history of doing that.

shi-woo wrote:Harden has to be the only dude who consistently comes out, single handedly wins his teams playoff games to keep the series alive, and then gets crushed when his team falters.

Sometimes I forget he scored 40+ twice in that series last year to keep Philly in it against Boston with the way you people act.

Okay, he isn't the best closer, his fans will concede that, but where is Joel, Paul, Kawhi, Kyrie, and PG in these moments? Not an excuse, but this guy has been let down by his costars, who all of you will have higher on your ATG lists, more than any other player i've seen play the game of basketball.

The dude delivers these guys wins they never should have, it would be nice for just one of them to return the favor once in a while

C'mon man, I don't hate Harden or anything but completely ignoring the other side of things is not the take here. Yeah he had two sweet games last year vs BOS but he literally shot 25% in the other 5 games combined, including games of 2/14, 3/14, and 4/16. And he looked completely hopeless and without any answers when he wasn't drilling 28 foot stepbacks.

Also there were many other 30+ point games from non-Harden guys in that series, it's not like he carried the team the whole time while they sat around playing cards. He had two excellent games and was somewhere between not good and unspeakably awful in the other 5, let's give him credit for his hot-shooting nights but factor in the majority of nights too.

TheGeneral99 wrote:

Shock Defeat wrote:

DonaldSanders wrote:
CP3 missed game 6, so did Durant. Same situation.

Rockets in 2018 without Paul were gonna beat the Warriors on game 7 until the ref show saved them

https://www.espn.com/nba/game/_/gameId/401032767/warriors-rockets

Did the refs cause the Rockets to shoot 7/44 from three that game?

Harden, Ariza and Gordon were a combined 4/34 from three.

I do agree Houston got unlucky with Paul getting hurt but the Rockets just blew that final game.

There were multiple instances where a player got a no call on physically grabbing an arm/wrist on shots attempted. Obviously that wasn't remotely close to all of them, but there were at least two just downright comical non calls from Klay hacking Harden. Assume we're looking at the 0-27 game in that box score.

shi-woo wrote:Harden has to be the only dude who consistently comes out, single handedly wins his teams playoff games to keep the series alive, and then gets crushed when his team falters.

Sometimes I forget he scored 40+ twice in that series last year to keep Philly in it against Boston with the way you people act.

Okay, he isn't the best closer, his fans will concede that, but where is Joel, Paul, Kawhi, Kyrie, and PG in these moments? Not an excuse, but this guy has been let down by his costars, who all of you will have higher on your ATG lists, more than any other player i've seen play the game of basketball.

The dude delivers these guys wins they never should have, it would be nice for just one of them to return the favor once in a while

If you look at his teams over the years. CP3 famously getting hurt. And then Embiid. And I guess whatever he had in NJ for any healhty games he played. Those were really the only times he'd had anyone meaningfully better than Paul George last time....who btw also had a terrible game.

Harden's got his playoff holes...without a doubt. But he's almost never had a number 2 who could meaningfully pickup the slack on any consistent basis.

Iwasawitness wrote:

shi-woo wrote:Harden has to be the only dude who consistently comes out, single handedly wins his teams playoff games to keep the series alive, and then gets crushed when his team falters.

Sometimes I forget he scored 40+ twice in that series last year to keep Philly in it against Boston with the way you people act.

Okay, he isn't the best closer, his fans will concede that, but where is Joel, Paul, Kawhi, Kyrie, and PG in these moments? Not an excuse, but this guy has been let down by his costars, who all of you will have higher on your ATG lists, more than any other player i've seen play the game of basketball.

The dude delivers these guys wins they never should have, it would be nice for just one of them to return the favor once in a while

I mean, it's true

The best players on his team constantly don't show up either, kinda hard to fault James for that.

Embiid last year was 5/17 with a 15/8 statline, the MVP in that Game 7

18 the year you all hate on him, Paul didn't even play Game 7, Harden still put up 30+ went 5/7 in the 4th. His team got blown out in the 3rd where his roleplayers went 0-11 from 3

Other than those years, what has been the expectation, that he single handedly beat the Warriors, the 2nd greatest team in the history of the sport? With Trevor Ariza and Eric Gordon as his running makes?

Not everyone has the luxury of playing with Wade, Kyrie, and AD and other HoFers at every stop

Sedale Threatt wrote:

shi-woo wrote:Harden has to be the only dude who consistently comes out, single handedly wins his teams playoff games to keep the series alive, and then gets crushed when his team falters.

He shot 2 for 12 with 4 turnovers at home in a pivotal playoff game they lost by 30. He had a massive, massive hand in his team faltering and you're always going to get ripped for that. Especially when you have a history of doing that.

If he'd hit 4 more of those shots, they still lose 18+. The whole played like crap. In Harden's history of bad games, this one isn't one I'll put up there. Imagine if Paul George came through with a good game and Harden could switch over to point guard mode, and had played another 15minutes and ended up with 14-15 assists....suddenly it's a bad shooting night where he found other ways to contribute. It's ok to say Harden under preforms in the playoffs, but all accept he certainly hasn't gotten the help most stars get when they have an off night.

I'm also not arguing that Harden isn't faultering in these moments, just that if would be nice for his co stars to pull through once in a while for him, because he has shown the ability to win playoff games against good teams, just not consistently

Harden can still bring it sometimes tobea difference maker. Other times, he can't. That's a clear sign the player is in decline and should have his role reduced. If he can't adjust, then he isn't worth the high salary and investment. Ultimately, it's the playoffs that are the true measuring stick. Or maybe it's just to placate the premium seats and keep the facade in place. Without Kawhi, this team was going nowhere regardless.

shi-woo wrote:Harden has to be the only dude who consistently comes out, single handedly wins his teams playoff games to keep the series alive, and then gets crushed when his team falters.

Sometimes I forget he scored 40+ twice in that series last year to keep Philly in it against Boston with the way you people act.

Okay, he isn't the best closer, his fans will concede that, but where is Joel, Paul, Kawhi, Kyrie, and PG in these moments? Not an excuse, but this guy has been let down by his costars, who all of you will have higher on your ATG lists, more than any other player i've seen play the game of basketball.

The dude delivers these guys wins they never should have, it would be nice for just one of them to return the favor once in a while

We had some legendary threads on the PC Board about how good Harden was and there are those who believed in Harden and those who didn't. These are the talking points about Harden:
- He plays best downhill...aka with the lead...if you are down, Harden is not the guy you want
- He can be super efficient due to his 3pt shooting and ability to get to the line...in the regular season, he cannot keep it up in a playoff series
- He will not get the same fouls in the playoffs as he gets in the RS which means his consistency is dependent on the refs bailing him out
- His 3pt shooting is also inconsistent...if he hits his first couple then he's fine, but if he misses his first couple, he will go 3-17 FG and 1-10 3PT
- his defense is atrocious...gets caught ball watching and doesn't move his feet, the only thing he can do is defend in the post
- Not a leader...probably fun to hang out with at an exotic club but not going to be the first at practice or last to leave

shi-woo wrote:Harden has to be the only dude who consistently comes out, single handedly wins his teams playoff games to keep the series alive, and then gets crushed when his team falters.

Sometimes I forget he scored 40+ twice in that series last year to keep Philly in it against Boston with the way you people act.

Okay, he isn't the best closer, his fans will concede that, but where is Joel, Paul, Kawhi, Kyrie, and PG in these moments? Not an excuse, but this guy has been let down by his costars, who all of you will have higher on your ATG lists, more than any other player i've seen play the game of basketball.

The dude delivers these guys wins they never should have, it would be nice for just one of them to return the favor once in a while

Consistently? In that Philly series, he did score 40+ points twice. Remaining 5 games in Boston/Philly series? He averaged 13.4 pts while shooting 25.4% from the field.

Handlez wrote:

NZB2323 wrote:

bovice wrote:
but he's also showed up in high profile games.

most players have had duds in important games. look at curry in game 7 of the 2016 finals or game 7 vs LAL last year. yeah harden gave up vs the spurs in game 6 a while on the rockets which was a bad look but that team wasn't going anywhere that year anyway. and yeah shooting 20-something % isn't excusable but that's later in his career when he's no longer the primary option. you don't get to a game 7 of WCFs as the best player (vs KD's warriors no-less) and not be a playoff performer. you don't get to a WCF where trevor ariza is ur 2nd best scorer and not be a playoff performer

it's a lazy narrative. there are players that consistently shrink in the playoffs and harden isn't one of them.

Harden has had a lot of them though.

Tonight was his 69th playoff game where he shot under 40%.

He’s guard Karl Malone. He has some big playoff games but ultimately you know he’s going to come up short.

Why disrespect Karl?

He got to two finals and simply lost to the GOAT.

Would much rather have Karl Malone.

Harden lost to the KD Warriors. The 98 Bulls are also the oldest team to ever win a championship and the worst Bulls championship team. Just like Harden, Karl would come up short, like when he missed 2 free throws in a row and didn’t deliver on Sunday.

Playoff harden is so odd that you don’t know if you are taking a shot for his great games or his terrible games