Must be a "freakish athlete" to be a star

[Antetokounmpo]

Depends, stamina, balance, coordination, such things matter a lot too and are underrated, imo. Coordination probably doesn't count under that category or so, but I'd say is a lot more important than the rest of the stuff. Tyrus Thomas is a perfect example, he's a freak, but he can't learn or understand a damn thing.

[Point-God]

Deron Williams is by no means a freakish athlete. He is a star.

I think you're wrong. His strength and long arms give him a huge advantage. Is he the fastest? No
Can he jump the highest? No
Is his combination of strength, agility, quickness, etc. too much for his opponents to match? Yes

[Point-God]

Steve Nash is probably the only modern super star player that athletically has zero advantage. His footwork is what sets him apart. I'm certain his soccer background contributes to that. Larry Bird wasn't much of an athlete but he still was tall. 6'9" with extraordinary skills and talent is a killer package as long as the player can move up and down the floor at all....

[Deus]

Depends, stamina, balance, coordination, such things matter a lot too and are underrated, imo. Coordination probably doesn't count under that category or so, but I'd say is a lot more important than the rest of the stuff. Tyrus Thomas is a perfect example, he's a freak, but he can't learn or understand a damn thing.

Best post on the subject.

And imo, Larry Bird was NOT a better athlete than Dirk. Dirk is actually a pretty good athlete, just not fantastic. Bird was average to mediocre.

[Pass the ball]

yeah but while discpline cannot always be taught, athleticism can NEVER be taught.

I disagree. Squat 405 and you'd be hard pressed to not see your vert grow. A lot of athleticism is made in the weight room.

[NO-KG-AI]

Agreeing with Kasino. Duncan was always fast, really quick, stupid long, and very strong. He was only NOT elite in one athletic category, and when you are 6'11 with a huge wingspan, it really doesn't mean a whole lot.

Athleticism is way overrated for big guys, and leaping ability is way overrated for everyone, especially max vertical.

[droponov]

leaping ability is way overrated for everyone, especially max vertical.

Fully agreed.

[droponov]

Depends, stamina, balance, coordination, such things matter a lot too and are underrated, imo. Coordination probably doesn't count under that category or so, but I'd say is a lot more important than the rest of the stuff. Tyrus Thomas is a perfect example, he's a freak, but he can't learn or understand a damn thing.

Best post on the subject.

And imo, Larry Bird was NOT a better athlete than Dirk. Dirk is actually a pretty good athlete, just not fantastic. Bird was average to mediocre.

In terms of stamina, balance and coordination Bird was an elite athlete. Extraordinary eye-hand coordination. Insane vertical quickness. Good overall athlete.

[twosauce]

I tend to disagree. Look at Stromile Swift, Darius Miles, Greg Oden, CJ Miles, Travis Outlaw. Kenyon Martin. All considered freak athletes and potential superstars. Swift didnt know how to play. Miles just sucked and got injured all the time.

[Ron Harper]

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in the game of basketball more important than fundamentals.

[Navas]

Steve Nash is probably the only modern super star player that athletically has zero advantage. His footwork is what sets him apart. I'm certain his soccer background contributes to that.

Steve Nash has said that soccer has helped him. Once read somewhere that when he was learning basketball he felt it was almost unfair that he got to use his hands. Gortat played quite a bit as well.

If there's one sport where you are able to implement it in other sports, it's soccer. Playing basketball and hockey along with soccer, it's been a huge benefit. Footwork especially.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/sport ... akers.html

[Patterns]

I really think that because of the rule changes and the level of competition, you have to be a "great" athlete to be a star in the NBA.

There's no way around it. Nash is of course an outlier.

A lot of players would become stars if they had Lebron's athleticism.

[Mamba Venom]

If not a freakish athlete the player has to be a freakishly smart (like Nash)

[lukekarts]

Being a freakish athlete doesn't always help. Sometimes it means players become over-reliant on their athleticism for success, at the expense of learning fundamental skills.

Look at the criticism levelled at Dwight for instance. Not saying he hasn't worked hard or improved, but up until a year ago he seemed almost entirely reliant on his athleticism to score points. He has a decent basketball IQ, so remained efficient whilst doing so (unlike say, JaVale McGee, who is more athletic but also stupid). How would Dwight have progressed as a player if he wasn't hugely athletic? Would he have learned post moves earlier.

Ultimately being a smart player and having the co-ordination and skills to improve and become more efficient, that's all that matters. Athleticism is only effective when combined with a brain.

And do I think Tim Duncan would be better than he is now, if he had Dwight's athleticism? No. Because he wouldn't have focused on the skills that make him so effective today, his game would be completely different.

[shangrila]

Roy comes to mind as someone who starred but wasn't an athletic freak. Usually though it's a combination of smarts and athleticism.

[RalphWiggum]

If you're talking potential superstar, then freakish athleticism matters. Fundamentals can be teached. You get BB IQ from experience. But you can't teach athleticism. Especially freakish one.

With that said, being a better athlete doesn't make someone better. Duncan is the best PF in history not because of his freakish athleticism. Neither does Larry Bird at SF or Magic Johnson at PG. But can you imagine what they'd be like if they were actually an athletic freak?

I look at it the opposite way, if they had been athletic freaks they would not have become the players they are. By not being able to flat out dominate with athletic ability they had to learn a multitude of others skills in order for them to be great players such as leadership, position, footwork, using the glass on jumpers, spacing, the extra pass, hustle etc. Having too much natural ability and being a freak athlete can be a detriment to players growth because they have the habit of relying on that to play the game.

[pwayknicks]

That's why I hate the argument some "young posters" use to say the players of today are better than those of the 60's because they are more athletic. Most of the Athletic freaks in the league today are garbage save some of the superstars........each team in the league has 4-6 athletic freaka and only 1 of them is probably any good. See the Knicks rosters during the Isiah era.

[old rem]

If you're talking potential superstar, then freakish athleticism matters. Fundamentals can be teached. You get BB IQ from experience. But you can't teach athleticism. Especially freakish one.

With that said, being a better athlete doesn't make someone better. Duncan is the best PF in history not because of his freakish athleticism. Neither does Larry Bird at SF or Magic Johnson at PG. But can you imagine what they'd be like if they were actually an athletic freak?

I look at it the opposite way, if they had been athletic freaks they would not have become the players they are. By not being able to flat out dominate with athletic ability they had to learn a multitude of others skills in order for them to be great players such as leadership, position, footwork, using the glass on jumpers, spacing, the extra pass, hustle etc. Having too much natural ability and being a freak athlete can be a detriment to players growth because they have the habit of relying on that to play the game.

That's very much been the case. How is "freak athlete" really defined? Chris Mullin had an uncanny timing and awareness and seemed able to snake between big men,weave the ball inches from their fingers. Magic and Oscar had an uncanny awareness of where everyone was at any moment,and they had rare control of themselves and the ball. Magic could invent strategy on the fly.
The Athletic of Mary Lou Retton and a top tier NFL pass blocking OT,is there but shows in a much different fashion....but still,precision and skill and timing are a big part.

I got to hang out at Olympic team track and field practices long ago,when I was young and first moved to California. I met many guys who had or would have,a gold medal or a world record. Watching guys like Bob Hayes or Ralph Boston or Al Oerter practice their craft,you could see how even in track and field,SKILL is crucial. There's a lot of fine details that go into a world record shotput,or a gold medal sprint. Natural tools matter but are not the whole thing.

Being able to jump,obviously,is an important talent in basketball. Being able to run. Often,in hoops,there's an oversimplification that just measuring well at those 2 things pretty much makes a guy a player. A Few yr ago, Roy Hibbert and Hasheem Thabeet both played in the big east as young 7 ft+ centers. Thabeet got the hype as the "athlete" but Hibbert was the guy who worked on and developed skills. Now? Thabeet may still run and jump better but having control of what your body is DOING.....no contest,Hibbert has filled in those OTHER parts of athlete. Thabeet has not.

It certainly helps a lot to have the rare size+ speed that LeBron has,but it's as important that he knows what to do,has real good hands,is in control. Monta Ellis is VERY fast/quick. In terms of raw speed+quickness,I'd think there's perhaps a dozen guys in the NFL who could top him.....but not in Basketball terms. Baseball has been a sport where it's hard to really define "Athlete". Part of why SF just won is this time they did not base a draft pick on a pitcher being built like an NFL TE. Lincicum is relatively undersized,hardly looks the "freak athlete",yet his nickname is "The Freak" because he's just that good.

Among the guys who ever played for GSW,one who,in terms of raw physical tools was VERY "freak Athlete",was Chris Washburn. He could have been a Dwight Howard clone,if there was much of anything happening between the ears. Instead, he was a top 3 pick who in just a few years was getting cut by the Albany Patroons.

[Cliff Levingston]

Two-time MVP Steve Nash would beg to differ with this thread, as well as guys like John Stockton, Dirk Nowitzki, Jason Kidd, Larry Bird and Tim Duncan.

[tiderulz]

Guys like Rose/Westbrook and Griffin are more freaks of nature than norm.

Rose and Westbrook arent "freaks of nature". They are very good, very athletic people, but not that much more above the normal athletic players. Griffin, Lebron, Howard, i would say are more freakish athletes.