One player for each franchise that personifies it

[manou]

Seriously tough call between Duncan and the Admiral...

[illiance]

If any Heat fan says Haslem, I'm going to laugh. So your franchise personifies mediocre hustle players that hit an occassional jumper while putting up horrific advanced statistics. Cool.

[Chosen01]

Haslem.

[da.vid]

not really my team but I've been following them this year because the raptors suck

Heat
Past - Zo
Present - LeBron

[RTM]

For Detroit?

Maybe Ben Wallace or Bill Lambieer.

[Raps in 4]

Raptors: Charles Oakley

[Joe Buddy]

Raptors: Al Boogie and Charles Oakley

[andre316]

If any Heat fan says Haslem, I'm going to laugh. So your franchise personifies mediocre hustle players that hit an occassional jumper while putting up horrific advanced statistics. Cool.

GTFO troll. This isn't about "best player", in case you can't read, it's about the guy who most represents what your franchise has been about, and their continuing focus. Whether you hate LeBron or not doesn't change the fact that defense and hustle has defined the Heat since Riley joined the organization.

Haslem not only personifies the Heat because his play style matches up with the organization's values, but also because he grew up on some of the most crime-infested streets in Miami, didn't even get drafted but went overseas and shed enough weight to be given a second look in the NBA, proved himself in the '06 Finals guarding the 7-foot Dirk, turned down tens of millions of dollars TWICE (yeah he's still a millionaire, but he can't fall back on endorsements like superstars can) to stay with an organization he respects and in a town he loves, didn't bitch when he got benched in favor of the erratic Beasley, and never thinks twice about throwing himself all over the court for loose balls or taking charges or fighting guys taller than he is for rebounds (and often prevailing).

By the way, his "occasional jumper" ('08-'10 he shot 45% from 16-23 feet, league average is less than 40%, and yes that is statistically significant) is pretty damn respectable. And which "horrific" advanced stats? His career WS/48 is .121 (league average is .100), of course the offensively-oriented "advanced" stats like PER and EFF are going to hate him since they ignore fundamental defense and reward inefficient volume scoring. Standard +/- is a joke so don't bother bringing that up, but if you can scrounge up some adjusted +/- numbers maybe you'll have an argument (despite even that being ridiculously noisy).

[Soap345]

Celtics - Russell/Bird

They have class. Try again

[Pablo Escobar]

Arujou(sp?) for the RAPTORS loooooooooooool

[SaveOurBullets]

If any Heat fan says Haslem, I'm going to laugh. So your franchise personifies mediocre hustle players that hit an occassional jumper while putting up horrific advanced statistics. Cool.

GTFO troll. This isn't about "best player", in case you can't read, it's about the guy who most represents what your franchise has been about, and their continuing focus. Whether you hate LeBron or not doesn't change the fact that defense and hustle has defined the Heat since Riley joined the organization.

Haslem not only personifies the Heat because his play style matches up with the organization's values, but also because he grew up on some of the most crime-infested streets in Miami, didn't even get drafted but went overseas and shed enough weight to be given a second look in the NBA, proved himself in the '06 Finals guarding the 7-foot Dirk, turned down tens of millions of dollars TWICE (yeah he's still a millionaire, but he can't fall back on endorsements like superstars can) to stay with an organization he respects and in a town he loves, didn't bitch when he got benched in favor of the erratic Beasley, and never thinks twice about throwing himself all over the court for loose balls or taking charges or fighting guys taller than he is for rebounds (and often prevailing).

By the way, his "occasional jumper" ('08-'10 he shot 45% from 16-23 feet, league average is less than 40%, and yes that is statistically significant) is pretty damn respectable. And which "horrific" advanced stats? His career WS/48 is .121 (league average is .100), of course the offensively-oriented "advanced" stats like PER and EFF are going to hate him since they ignore fundamental defense and reward inefficient volume scoring. Standard +/- is a joke so don't bother bringing that up, but if you can scrounge up some adjusted +/- numbers maybe you'll have an argument (despite even that being ridiculously noisy).

Then pretty much every team's "personifction" comes in the form of a hustle player, because every fan likes that and wants their team to be built that way. Teams have more variety than that. And when people think of today's Heat, they don't think of those traits. They may still exist, but that isn't the core identity of the team anymore. That honor belongs to the image of glamour and hype, and Haslem isn't the one who personifies that.

[Deathray]

Denver - Alex English because he's never appreciated enough kind of like all good Nuggets teams.

Portland - obviously Bowie and Oden come to mind but I'll go with Bill Walton because even with all the injury issues he still got some work done. Plus he was a noted blazer.

[andre316]

Then pretty much every team's "personifction" comes in the form of a hustle player, because every fan likes that and wants their team to be built that way. Teams have more variety than that. And when people think of today's Heat, they don't think of those traits. They may still exist, but that isn't the core identity of the team anymore. That honor belongs to the image of glamour and hype, and Haslem isn't the one who personifies that.

No, because there are a lot of teams that have been defined by their offense for a long time, like Golden State, Phoenix, Denver, and Toronto. Maybe if the Heat weren't the 4th-ranked defense this season even without their key defensive big (Haslem, and even he's an undersized PF), maybe if Wade and LeBron had instantly clicked on offense while struggling to work together on defense (the reality is the opposite), maybe if the Heat's half-court offense was a thing of beauty to watch... but the reality is the most you can say about the Heat offense is that it's efficient, while the defense is ridiculously good and has been what's carried the team to their great record and their statement wins (Orlando, Lakers, OKC) despite the lack of a star defensive big.

If the Heat's offense starts carrying the team for a prolonged period of time thanks to "Showtime" play by the Big 3, then I'll concede that it's a new chapter in Heat history and the values that define the team have changed. But until then, the defensive mantra rules supreme, even with the team's current collection of divas.

[Andre 2999]

Greg Oden

[KevinMcreynolds]

now I'd say it's Udonis Haslem. Despite all the flash of this year's team, the franchise has always been and continues to be defined by defense, effort, and teamwork.

[NashtyNas]

Barkley or KJ.

[andre316]

now I'd say it's Udonis Haslem. Despite all the flash of this year's team, the franchise has always been and continues to be defined by defense, effort, and teamwork.

[img]http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/b8ec3ae8a13cf35629afbe653ed49f9b.gif[/

So your point is... ?

When the Big 3 got together everyone was predicting a new "Showtime" team. Instead, Spoelstra has had a field day using the length, strength, and quickness of LeBron, Wade, and even Bosh to power one of the league's most suffocating defenses (it would probably lead the league if it wasn't for these guys occasionally taking 1st quarters off, SMH).

Meanwhile, the offense has looked fairly pedestrian, despite its efficiency, and the team plays at one of the slowest paces in the league. The few times Wade and LeBron are causing havoc in the open court, it's because of the defense, and not even necessarily steals (the Heat don't actually force that many turnovers, they're just great on defensive FG% and get the job done on the boards).