Van Gundy on McGrady's practice habits

[SacTownKings4Life]

People who make excuses for Tmac not having talent clearly have short term memory loss.

His Rockets team could have easily won a championship the few years they were healthy. And superstars have alone lead their team out of the first round. Think of all the players he had in Orlando and Houston he could have used to make it to the 2nd round.

But I don't think he was a "waste" of talent. All this speculation is bull****. No one knows how good Tmac could have been except himself. He's just not Kobe Bryant. He's not a winner. And no amount of practice was gonna change that.

All the players? Name them. (OTHER THAN YAO MING)
You talk about short term memory loss, yet you yourself seem to have conveniently forgotten the contributions of the REST of the Houston Rockets in the post season. So allow me to enlighten you...

In 2005, The Rockets lost to the Dallas Mavericks in the first round in 7 games. They were lead by McGrady's 30.7 points, 7.4 rebounds and 6.7 assists. Second was Yao Ming with 21.4 points and 7.7 rebounds (7 rebounds for a 7'5" guy???). Who was their third leading scorer? Mike James with a whopping 11.6 points, followed by Jon Barry 8.6, David Wesley 8.1, and Bob Sura 7.9.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2005.html

Next we have 2007, when the Rockets lost to the Utah Jazz in the first round in 7 games. The were lead once again my Tracy McGrady with 25.3 points, 5.9 rebounds, and 7.3 assists. Second once again was Yao Ming with 25.1 points and 10.3 rebounds. Next in line, we have Rafer Alston with 10.9, Shane Battier 10.3, and Juwan Howard with 5.0.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2007.html

Lastly, we have 2008, where the Rockets lost once again to the Utah Jazz in the first round in 6 games. They were lead by (who else?) Tracy McGrady with 27.0 points, 8.2 rebounds, and 6.8 assists. Yao Ming was nowhere to be found this year, due to injury. And because of this, the next leading scorers on the team, you ask? Rafer Alston ALL THE WAY down at 14.3 points, followed by Luis Scola 14.0, Shane Battier 10.0, and Bobby Jackson with 8.7.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2008.html

Now you look CLOSELY at those 3 playoff teams and you look at "all those players" that you were mentioning earlier, and you PLEASE TELL ME that those are championship caliber teams. Please, convince me that those teams were the best teams, top to bottom, in the entire league and would have "easily" won the title those years. I want you to. The explanation will be VERY entertaining...

Realistically, it take more than one man to take a team out of the first round. As I've said before, ONLY Iverson and Lebron have managed to lead their teams deep into the playoffs completely by themselves. Name another superstar who's done anything as the ONLY scoring option of their team. I know Garnett couldn't get out of the first round EITHER until he got Cassell and Sprewell. Then suddenly HE became an MVP. I always thought that was funny...

[bl2k]

Tmac used to be in my top 3 fave players, but dude def seemed like he didn't give a **** about practice. Lets be real though, he had two 2-0 Leads and one 3-1 lead, he had his chances to get out the first round.

[JustAwesome]

McGrady was definitely a better ball handler than Bryant. I also thought that he had more offensive moves in his arsenal.

Bryant just seemed better since he played with a chip on his shoulder.

I don't think McGrady ever put that pressure on himself. That's a shame.

[Shaheen]

All the players? Name them. (OTHER THAN YAO MING)
You talk about short term memory loss, yet you yourself seem to have conveniently forgotten the contributions of the REST of the Houston Rockets in the post season. So allow me to enlighten you...

In 2005, The Rockets lost to the Dallas Mavericks in the first round in 7 games. They were lead by McGrady's 30.7 points, 7.4 rebounds and 6.7 assists. Second was Yao Ming with 21.4 points and 7.7 rebounds (7 rebounds for a 7'5" guy???). Who was their third leading scorer? Mike James with a whopping 11.6 points, followed by Jon Barry 8.6, David Wesley 8.1, and Bob Sura 7.9.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2005.html

Next we have 2007, when the Rockets lost to the Utah Jazz in the first round in 7 games. The were lead once again my Tracy McGrady with 25.3 points, 5.9 rebounds, and 7.3 assists. Second once again was Yao Ming with 25.1 points and 10.3 rebounds. Next in line, we have Rafer Alston with 10.9, Shane Battier 10.3, and Juwan Howard with 5.0.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2007.html

Lastly, we have 2008, where the Rockets lost once again to the Utah Jazz in the first round in 6 games. They were lead by (who else?) Tracy McGrady with 27.0 points, 8.2 rebounds, and 6.8 assists. Yao Ming was nowhere to be found this year, due to injury. And because of this, the next leading scorers on the team, you ask? Rafer Alston ALL THE WAY down at 14.3 points, followed by Luis Scola 14.0, Shane Battier 10.0, and Bobby Jackson with 8.7.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2008.html

Now you look CLOSELY at those 3 playoff teams and you look at "all those players" that you were mentioning earlier, and you PLEASE TELL ME that those are championship caliber teams. Please, convince me that those teams were the best teams, top to bottom, in the entire league and would have "easily" won the title those years. I want you to. The explanation will be VERY entertaining...

Realistically, it take more than one man to take a team out of the first round. As I've said before, ONLY Iverson and Lebron have managed to lead their teams deep into the playoffs completely by themselves. Name another superstar who's done anything as the ONLY scoring option of their team. I know Garnett couldn't get out of the first round EITHER until he got Cassell and Sprewell. Then suddenly HE became an MVP. I always thought that was funny...

Are you being serious right now??????

Dallas is arguable. That 2005 Dallas team wasn't all that talented but they were the higher seed going in. I'll give Tmac a pass on that.

But 2007???? WTF happened? You talk about that team like it sucked. Yes they had two excellent scorers and a bunch of great role players. Shane Battier and Mike James are no joke. They didn't need 3 superstars to defeat the Utah Jazz. Who did they have outside of an unexperienced Deron Williams and often injured Boozer? Houston was the favorite that time and it was a classic choke job by McGrady.

And 2008 again there were no excuses. Why do you keep referencing teams like they need 3 20 point scorers? Guess how much the Lakers 3rd top scorer is? Lamar Odom. Guess how many points he averages? 14.

The SAME as Rafer Alston. Your excuse for lack of scoring is abysmal. 14 points for your 3rd best scorer is excellent.

[Throwback24]

T-mac still burns D's

[SacTownKings4Life]

Are you being serious right now??????

Dallas is arguable. That 2005 Dallas team wasn't all that talented but they were the higher seed going in. I'll give Tmac a pass on that.

But 2007???? WTF happened? You talk about that team like it sucked. Yes they had two excellent scorers and a bunch of great role players. Shane Battier and Mike James are no joke. They didn't need 3 superstars to defeat the Utah Jazz. Who did they have outside of an unexperienced Deron Williams and often injured Boozer? Houston was the favorite that time and it was a classic choke job by McGrady.

And 2008 again there were no excuses. Why do you keep referencing teams like they need 3 20 point scorers? Guess how much the Lakers 3rd top scorer is? Lamar Odom. Guess how many points he averages? 14.

The SAME as Rafer Alston. Your excuse for lack of scoring is abysmal. 14 points for your 3rd best scorer is excellent.

Yes, as a matter of fact I am VERY serious. Are you? You stated that TMac could have EASILY won a championship with all the players he had. Remember this?

His Rockets team could have easily won a championship the few years they were healthy.

I showed you the numbers and asked you to explain to me how they could have won a championship so "easily". You never answered my question. Numbers don't lie, but opinions do.

Next you blame McGrady for the 2007 loss. The guy had 29 points and 13 assists in game 7. What more do you ask? Yao also had 29 but only 6 boards, and the Rocket's front court gave up gave up 35 and 14 to the "often injured" Boozer and 16 and 11 to Okur. You know what that means? Yao Ming Was DOMINATED on the glass. Perhaps if 7'5" Yao Ming had done his job and grabbed a few more boards (more rebounds = more scoring opportunities) maybe the outcome would have been different. I fail to see how that was McGrady's responsibility. And did I mention the 20 points and 14 assists from the "unexperienced" Deron Williams?
http://www.nba.com/games/20070505/UTAHOU/boxscore.html

No excuses in 2008? Well lets see... McGrady led the way with 40 points, 10 rebounds and 5 assists in game 6. Why only 5 assists, you ask? Because the next leading scorer on the team was Luis Scola with 15, and (get this...) NO OTHER PLAYER ON THE ROCKETS SCORED IN DOUBLE FIGURES. So again, are YOU serious? Who do YOU know who can win a playoff series with a team so crappy that they can't get more than ONE other player in double figures? In an ELIMINATION game? McGrady was literally the only man on the court for his team, and they got blown out as a result...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=280502026

And ya know what? I'll take you one further...
2005. Elimination game 7 against Dallas. Yao leads with 33 and 10, McGrady chips in 27, 7, 7. So no problem, right? WRONG. Why? Because the next leading scorer for the Rockets was David Wesley with 7 POINTS. That's right, not ONE other player outside of their big 2 could muster up even 10 points. The "great role player" Mike James you talked about? 4 points on 2-7 shooting. Shut down.
Meanwhile, that "not all that talented" Dallas team came away with 31 from Jason Terry, 21 from Josh Howard, and 14 and 13 from Dirk and Finley respectively, enroute to a 40 point blowout. Yeah, no talent at all...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba//boxscore?gameId=250507006

Then you have the nerve to bring up the Lakers with their LOADED front court to make a comparison with McGrady's Rockets. McGrady NEVER had an Odom or a Bynum caliber player (let alone two) playing alongside Yao and himself. Get outta here. The Lakers are LEAGUES ahead of those Rockets.

So get outta here with that "short term memory loss" or "great role players" talk because you clearly have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Anybody who can't recognize the FACT that McGrady was WOEFULLY outmatched needs their heads examined. I've told you why McGrady was never able to get passed the first round, and I've given you the stats to prove my point. All you can do is tell me what you THINK with no substance to back it up. Again, numbers don't lie, but opinions do.
Give me more facts and less personal opinion, and maybe I'll take you seriously...

[joelafan]

His lack of drive to win is what held him back. Theres a reason he could never get HOU out of the first round besides the injury prone yao.

[SacTownKings4Life]

His lack of drive to win is what held him back. Theres a reason he could never get HOU out of the first round besides the injury prone yao.

I just gave the reason why. His apparent lack of drive to win is why he his production increased in each and every post season...

[joelafan]

drive to win has more to do with production like rehabbing , work ethic etc. Somthing tmac never had still doesnt have now.

[Prop]

prime t-mac was amazing but he never had the fire that a guy like kobe does. even so, he was AT LEAST on par with kobe back then.

[CjayC]

Guy was ridiculous.

I remember so many kids wanted to be him rather than Kobe, and in school we all used to argue that T-mac was better than Kobe(Maybe partly because everyone hated the Lakers of the Early 2000's).

[LeDouche]

Worst decision of his career was leaving Toronto and apparently Carter's shadow. Had he stayed in Toronto those two would've been a formidable one two punch. Carter moreso than McGrady seems like the type of player that excels when he's motivated. Most likely he would've gotten out of the first round with Toronto and perhaps had even more success than just the second round, considering the year after they made it to the second round and McGrady has yet to see the 2nd round in his lifetime.

[schematics]

I was one of the few Magic fans that really ripped Tmac when he was playing with us. My feeling about Tracy was the game always came easy for him. He never appreciated basketball. That his true love was baseball because it didn't come easy for him. That his leadership and work ethic just sucked.

Tmac might be the most gifted player I've ever seen. At his peak he just physically dominated his position. One of the only players I've ever seen just stare down a defender and raise up over him for a 3 over and over again. Not many players don't even need to make a move. He just knew he was too long and athletic for just about any SG in the league to challenge his shot.

He would score 30 points a game and I swear would play hard for 15 minutes. Every game it was like he would be sleep walking and then suddenly he get aggressive and score 15 in 5 minutes.

I remember Tracy saying that he wish he had Kobe's desire. To hear a player say he didn't have the desire for the game like another player just blew me away. The fact he was putting up all-time great numbers while playing with real desire just shows how talented he was. Should have been much better than Kobe. JVG is right though. He was gifted too much talent. It came too easy for him. It would be interesting to hear what Tracy thought about those days and has his years battling injuries made him wish he didn't waste those healthy years.

Goes back to my post a few days ago and goes for a lot of stars past n present in the league. It only takes one or couple things to truly separate great players...heart, desire, work ethic, passion etc etc.

Like i said before, it's extremely hard to have the same amount of fire/desire season after season esp when you have already won 5 rings...i can respect #8 for that because his work ethic, focus, desire, heart, and more all all usually on point

[schematics]

"]The difference between a player like McGrady and a player like Kobe is the player's own inner drive. I26. It's not talent as they were equally talented.

It's not teammates. Sure, McGrady had bad luck with Hill getting injured, but Kobe went through his own stretch where he played with poor teammates teammates too. But even in 05, when he was healthy and Yao was healthy, they were still a first round exit.
t's not coaching - at least not his coach when he's
McGrady has had more injury issues than Kobe. But how much of that has to do with differences in training? Better commitment to training and better training techniques can help prevent injuries. And Kobe has played through multiple injuries that would sideline McGrady.[/quote]


BINGO!

[rdtx2005]

between him and Vince Carter.. all I can say is.. it runs in the family..

[RaptorFansArePK]

Who cares, he makes a lot of money being lazy.