Rondo once the Big 3 is gone

[panthermark]

It depends on the team they put around him. His individual stats can easily increase. You just need to put some shooters and finishers around him. Guys like Anthony Morrow, Richard Jefferson, Ersan Ilyasova and some guy who can run, set picks and get alley-oops, say, Tyson Chandler. His numbers would go up with this supporting cast. With a coach like Paul Silas and a bench of similar players, I can see him breaking Stockton's record.

Surround a PG like Rondo with guys who are good finishing plays in a running team with good spacing (like Morrow, Chandler, etc.) instead of guys who can construct their own points in a half-court team (like Pierce, Garnett, etc and the current Celtics) and his assist numbers will actually go up, as well as his scoring (of course, they won't win so many games).

But would such a team win?

Not nearly as much as the current Celtics, that's for sure.

I think that team would get blown out game after game because no one can score on their own. That is where Rondo benefits from playing with 3 HOF'ers.... Rondo's PG skills are fine...it would be the holes in his game that would be exposed.[

They wouldn't be blown game after game, it'd be a PG-centric offense.

How would the holes in his game be exposed? I think people just write these clichés without thinking much. It's way easier to expose the holes in Rondo's game with the current Celtics because there are other guys who need the ball on their hands to create, they play lots of half-court and sometimes the spacing isn't ideal.

He can't shoot...he is poor man's Kidd (which is still a damn good player)...without the three ball or FT shooting.
Without other All-Stars...his flaws become much easier to exploit. His passing skill will be the same...but without 3 other HOF'ers around to take crunch time shots, create space, pull defenders away, ect...things would be MUCH harder for him....and the rest of his team as well.

[Big Shamrock]

Knicks fans still crying

[Deus]

Rondo could raise his scoring by 5-6 points a game if he wanted. He just doesn't need to.

15 ppg isn't that great though. He's never going to be a Rose. He's more like Kidd.

[8 Mile Ilic]

Rondo could raise his scoring by 5-6 points a game if he wanted. He just doesn't need to.

15 ppg isn't that great though. He's never going to be a Rose. He's more like Kidd.

This is an insult to Kidd. Kidd has always been a disciplined defender that doesn't gamble for steals.

[calamity]

He's never going to be a Rose. He's more like Kidd.

I rather him be like Kidd. Rose scores but on inefficient level. no thanks.

[IanJames]

It depends on the team they put around him. His individual stats can easily increase. You just need to put some shooters and finishers around him. Guys like Anthony Morrow, Richard Jefferson, Ersan Ilyasova and some guy who can run, set picks and get alley-oops, say, Tyson Chandler. His numbers would go up with this supporting cast. With a coach like Paul Silas and a bench of similar players, I can see him breaking Stockton's record.

Surround a PG like Rondo with guys who are good finishing plays in a running team with good spacing (like Morrow, Chandler, etc.) instead of guys who can construct their own points in a half-court team (like Pierce, Garnett, etc and the current Celtics) and his assist numbers will actually go up, as well as his scoring (of course, they won't win so many games).

THANK YOU! This is what i say every time this argument comes up. A good post-up player like KG or a great ISO player like Pierce don't really do anything to help Rondo's assists numbers aside from being great at knocking down open jump shots(like many other players in the NBA). I can't wait until the Big 3 retires and Rondo's stats go UP (like they do every time the C's are missing 1 or 2 members of the Big 3) just so all the haters will shut up.

[Fantaxp7]

He does benefit from having Hall of Fame talent around him, and when they leave his numbers will dive slightly. But to say he'll be a 10/7 player is absurd. Not trying to start a war or anything but the number of Knick fans coming onto the GB and making hate threads about the Celtics just shows the bitterness of your fanbase. So what you lost. You didn't have a 100% Billups or Amare the entire series and it was still close. Take the sweep like a man and be prepared for the greatness you'll see from your team next year.

One of the few times Celtics-Lakers fans can agree on something

[bigboi]

You could actually argue that Rondo is being held back by the Big 3. Kind of like Derrick Rose, I don't think Rose would be the kind of player he is now if Ben Gordan was still on the team. If Rondo has a team with people, who actually run then that's the perfect team for Rondo. They would actually have a chance of being better than the Celtics. If you've watched the Celtics, you would notice that Rondo is usually the only one running during fastbreaks. If he has more athletic people on his team then his points, assist, and rebounds will skyrocket.

But it's okay that you don't like Rondo. Just start worrying about your team and how their doing and not the Celtics players.

[droponov]

Not nearly as much as the current Celtics, that's for sure.

They wouldn't be blown game after game, it'd be a PG-centric offense.

How would the holes in his game be exposed? I think people just write these clichés without thinking much. It's way easier to expose the holes in Rondo's game with the current Celtics because there are other guys who need the ball on their hands to create, they play lots of half-court and sometimes the spacing isn't ideal.

He can't shoot...he is poor man's Kidd (which is still a damn good player)...without the three ball or FT shooting.
Without other All-Stars...his flaws become much easier to exploit. His passing skill will be the same...but without 3 other HOF'ers around to take crunch time shots, create space, pull defenders away, ect...things would be MUCH harder for him....and the rest of his team as well.

Yes, he can't shoot.

The bolded part is what doesn't make any sense at all, it's a non sequitur. It's a flawed reasoning. It's just a cliche people keep repeating. You can't even explain your rationale. Think about the issues yourself, with an open mind

A line-up of Morrow, Granger, Ilyasova would create space as well or better than Ray Allen, Pierce, Garnett. If they play more of an open-court game, the spacing would be even better.

What makes the difference between star players like the Boston Big 3 and elite scoring/shooting role-players like those ones is not the ability to make shots and finish plays. Certainly not the ability to make uncontested shots. Nobody would double Rondo off Morrow more than they double off Allen. Morrow is probably the best player in the NBA making open shots, better than Allen. The only difference is that teams aren't going to double Morrow off Rondo as they can double Pierce or Garnett... but that's irrelevant because Rondo isn't really one to take advantage of his man doubling off him because he cant' shoot. You see, it's true that Rondo can't shoot, but the consequences are actually the opposite

You have to separate things: ability to finish plays and ability to create shots. That kind of supporting cast can finish plays better than the Celtics one. They can't create shots nearly as well, obviously, but that's good for Rondo's numbers because he'll create pretty much every shot his team takes. He'll dominate the ball all the time, which will in fact erase his largest liability, his off-the-ball game. That's why his individual stats would balloon.

The same people who now believe he's overrated and only looks good because he's playing alongside the big 3 would start calling him the best PG in the game.

For a passing PG having a supporting cast with guys who will create their own shots is not a bonus, it's a burden (exclusively from an individual stats standpoint). It becomes even larger if that PG isn't a good shooter off the catch. This is so easy to understand I have no idea how people are able to not get it.

[AWalkerREMIX]

Rondo could raise his scoring by 5-6 points a game if he wanted. He just doesn't need to.

15 ppg isn't that great though. He's never going to be a Rose. He's more like Kidd.

This is an insult to Kidd. Kidd has always been a disciplined defender that doesn't gamble for threes.

What does this even mean?

[witnessraps]

Dude just had 21 points and 12 assists to eliminate your team....get real.

[MaliBrah]

we'll find out when it happens , for now rondo is an amazing pg for the celtics

[bullsnewdynasty]

Until guys like Rondo/Westbrook have to be the #1 option on their teams you can't put them up there with Rose/Williams/Paul/Nash.

[BULLHITTER]

You could actually argue that Rondo is being held back by the Big 3. Kind of like Derrick Rose, I don't think Rose would be the kind of player he is now if Ben Gordan was still on the team. If Rondo has a team with people, who actually run then that's the perfect team for Rondo. They would actually have a chance of being better than the Celtics. If you've watched the Celtics, you would notice that Rondo is usually the only one running during fastbreaks. If he has more athletic people on his team then his points, assist, and rebounds will skyrocket.

But it's okay that you don't like Rondo. Just start worrying about your team and how their doing and not the Celtics players.

this is quite ludicrous; when in the history of ball has having good player held other good player's back? it's quite the opposite, actually. with less attention paid to them due to other good players at their side, defenses can't just load up, cut off lanes and deny the ball to said players. if good players held other good players back, why is it all of the best players in the league are chosen for the olympic teams? the only thing that MIGHT happen is they score more efficiently and a tad less.

its total nonsense, and shouldn't be accepted as anything resembling fact. the bulls would be better with gordon vs. keith bogans/brewer/korver, and should the celtics continue to surround rondo with talent, he'll still be a helluva guard. conversly, if he's not passing to someone who can convert consistenly, his numbers will suffer and most will be deluded into believing "that's the real rondo; i told you so".....

[panthermark]

Yes, he can't shoot.

The bolded part is what doesn't make any sense at all, it's a non sequitur. It's a flawed reasoning. It's just a cliche people keep repeating. You can't even explain your rationale. Think about the issues yourself, with an open mind

A line-up of Morrow, Granger, Ilyasova would create space as well or better than Ray Allen, Pierce, Garnett. If they play more of an open-court game, the spacing would be even better.

What makes the difference between star players like the Boston Big 3 and elite scoring/shooting role-players like those ones is not the ability to make shots and finish plays. Certainly not the ability to make uncontested shots. Nobody would double Rondo off Morrow more than they double off Allen. Morrow is probably the best player in the NBA making open shots, better than Allen. The only difference is that teams aren't going to double Morrow off Rondo as they can double Pierce or Garnett... but that's irrelevant because Rondo isn't really one to take advantage of his man doubling off him because he cant' shoot. You see, it's true that Rondo can't shoot, but the consequences are actually the opposite

You have to separate things: ability to finish plays and ability to create shots. That kind of supporting cast can finish plays better than the Celtics one. They can't create shots nearly as well, obviously, but that's good for Rondo's numbers because he'll create pretty much every shot his team takes. He'll dominate the ball all the time, which will in fact erase his largest liability, his off-the-ball game. That's why his individual stats would balloon.

The same people who now believe he's overrated and only looks good because he's playing alongside the big 3 would start calling him the best PG in the game.

For a passing PG having a supporting cast with guys who will create their own shots is not a bonus, it's a burden (exclusively from an individual stats standpoint). It becomes even larger if that PG isn't a good shooter off the catch. This is so easy to understand I have no idea how people are able to not get it.

With the shot clock runninig down...and the defense sitting in the laps of the shooters...who is taking the shot?
That is the problem you keep ignoring....
There is no Pierce or KG to hit a turn around jumper...or get to the line.

Like I said...has passing skill is his passing skill...but the flaws in his game would be exposed. He isn't a great outside shooter...and he avoids going to the FT line. You don't think teams will take advantage of that?

BTW...Morrow is no where near as good at running people of off picks as Ray Allen.

Rondo is in the perfect spot for his skillset right now...and there is no shame in that. He is very talented..but has flaws which are covered up by the skillsets of his teammates.

[calamity]

Until guys like Rondo/Westbrook have to be the #1 option on their teams you can't put them up there with Rose/Williams/Paul/Nash.

as PGs yes you can...and wasn't A'mare the #1 option on the Suns last year? not Nash. so your point again?

[jl342323]

Until guys like Rondo/Westbrook have to be the #1 option on their teams you can't put them up there with Rose/Williams/Paul/Nash.

as PGs yes you can...and wasn't A'mare the #1 option on the Suns last year? not Nash. so your point again?

nash won MVP without amare. so your point again?

[bigboi]

You could actually argue that Rondo is being held back by the Big 3. Kind of like Derrick Rose, I don't think Rose would be the kind of player he is now if Ben Gordan was still on the team. If Rondo has a team with people, who actually run then that's the perfect team for Rondo. They would actually have a chance of being better than the Celtics. If you've watched the Celtics, you would notice that Rondo is usually the only one running during fastbreaks. If he has more athletic people on his team then his points, assist, and rebounds will skyrocket.

But it's okay that you don't like Rondo. Just start worrying about your team and how their doing and not the Celtics players.

this is quite ludicrous; when in the history of ball has having good player held other good player's back? it's quite the opposite, actually. with less attention paid to them due to other good players at their side, defenses can't just load up, cut off lanes and deny the ball to said players. if good players held other good players back, why is it all of the best players in the league are chosen for the olympic teams? the only thing that MIGHT happen is they score more efficiently and a tad less.

its total nonsense, and shouldn't be accepted as anything resembling fact. the bulls would be better with gordon vs. keith bogans/brewer/korver, and should the celtics continue to surround rondo with talent, he'll still be a helluva guard. conversly, if he's not passing to someone who can convert consistenly, his numbers will suffer and most will be deluded into believing "that's the real rondo; i told you so".....

So you're saying that Drose would have the same stats he has right now with Ben Gordon on the team. You're also saying that Lebron would average the same stats he had in Cleveland and Chris Bosh would average the same stats he had in Toronto. When you have other great players, you have to sacrifice, so they can play with you.

[jl342323]

imo, drose would have better numbers if he had a sharp shooter like bg7 next to him. i believe he would avg same amount of pts but his efficiency and assists numbers would go up. BG7 would space the floor better for drose to attack the basket and get drose more assists with his shooting. ^ you make it sound like BG7 is top 20 player lol. hes a scrub compared to drose

[calamity]

Until guys like Rondo/Westbrook have to be the #1 option on their teams you can't put them up there with Rose/Williams/Paul/Nash.

as PGs yes you can...and wasn't A'mare the #1 option on the Suns last year? not Nash. so your point again?

nash won MVP without amare. so your point again?

this was about being the #1 option.. and don't go the nash mvp thing. that is as controversial as rose probably getting it this year. so stop while you are ahead.