Report: Owners Initially Asked For $45 Million Hard Cap

[Friend_Of_Haley]

Friend of Haley- Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I think your proposal would make the problem worse. You are making it less painful for teams to offer a long guaranteed contract so teams would have more incentive to do so because they can get out of the caphit if they decide to to a different direction.

To me it would be far more useful to loosen the rules about signing bonuses so a team can give a player a big signing bonus in order to get them to agree to non-guaranteed years future seasons. THats how it works in the NFL. If the NFL had the same signing bonus rules as the NBA then players wouldn't ever sign multiyear contracts.

To some extent yes. Particularly with the Mark Cubans who just throw away money. But the vast maority of owners are going to think, "I'm not going to pay a guy 100% to be off my roster. I'll pay him equal to what my cap hit will be."

And with the Mark Cubans, they could do it over short stretches, but suddenly, they may find themselves in a situation where they have cap hits of 20-30% of the total salary cap and are still paying those players guaranteed money. (My idea presumes a hard cap, which maybe I didn't make clear). So if the salary cap is 55M, what owner is going to be okay with possible having cap hits of say 10M, while still having a committed $50M from those cap hits into future years and only having the roster flexibility of a $45M cap. (if they offer enough bad contracts, this is inevitable). What it does do is discourage long contracts, yet when long contracts are signed offers some protection from immediate release by slowly lowering the cap hit. Protection for the owners and players.

(Also not sure if you started to respond before my next post, but signing bonuses were my next idea, so +1 to that)

[Raps in 4]

There will always be owners in other leagues willing to pay more for their talents.

It's a nice theory, but one that hasn't shown to bear out in reality...and why would it? The owners are there to make money. If they can make the same money paying you $5m as they would paying you $10m, why would they pay you $10m?

If your theory were true, and you follow it to its logical conclusion, there would be no benefit to ownership because there would always be an owner somewhere willing to pay you more money to acquire your services and earn a subsequently lower and lower return...this goes on and on until ownership is no longer profitable.

Of course, that certainly isn't how it works in everyday life.

Yes it is. Last time I checked, the non-unionized job market is doing just fine. Managers and educated professionals are not earning $2/hour.

[thamadkant]

45 Million HARD CAP...

The KEY WORD is HARD CAP.... anyone over it breaches and disqualified from the league.... just like ALL other sports with HARD CAPs.

Yes, itll push some players to BIG market teams, which is a problem... BUT, a SECURED 5-6 year MAX contract from a TEAM is still more secured.... than a "LOW to MID" 5-6 year contract... because injuries happen and most LONG TERM sponsorships are limited to the top 5 players in the league.

[W_HAMILTON]

Yes it is. Last time I checked, the non-unionized job market is doing just fine.

What country are you from? If you are from the USA, you might want to check again.

[DEEP3CL]

How in hell can a team operate on a 45 mil hard cap ? Hell that even handcuffs the Bucks !

Enjoy the rest of the playoffs.......we won't have ball for a minute after it's done in June.

[BlueOrange]

The owners are low balling the players because unlike the NFL, they have let the players look at the financial books. So the players know that the teams are in fact losing money and the owners know that the players know.

[NYK0605]

If there is hardcap it will be somewhere around 65 mill.

45 mill is a complete joke.

[FullCapacity]

nm

[JasonDaPsycho]

I know this is one of those "we'll throw out an incredibly ridiculous offer and work towards the middle" but come on now. A 45 mil hard cap? They should at least show the players' union some respect by offering the option of setting the hard cap at the current soft cap and go from there. It's just ridiculous.

Now I'll be screwed when next season comes by because I'll be obsessed with the TV shows I'm following and not be able to take my mind off by watching some basketball.

[killbuckner]

For all the people who hate guaranteed contracts- remember that in the end a non-guaranteed year is basically a team option. You have to give players a reason to sign up for a team option otherwise they are better off just signing a 1 year deal and hitting free agency again the next year. Do you really want to see half the league change teams every offseason because they have no reason to sign for more than 1 year? A team option is NEVER in the players interest so if you want a player to sign up for one you owuld have to give them major incentive to do so.

[thamadkant]

^ that would make the league competitive every season or 2. Meaning no more dynasties....

[darth_federer]

How in hell can a team operate on a 45 mil hard cap ? Hell that even handcuffs the Bucks !

Enjoy the rest of the playoffs.......we won't have ball for a minute after it's done in June.

Obviously it would involve contracts being rolled back.

The NHL owners absolutely owned the players in 2004. They NHL wanted to set a 52 million salary cap and the union refused. After a lockout for a year the new cap was at 39 million and there were serious salary rollbacks. The owners are billionaires and can weather a lockout. Most players cant do that for too long.

[dice]

A 45 mil hard cap? They should at least show the players' union some respect by offering the option of setting the hard cap at the current soft cap and go from there

yeah, if there's a hard cap it won't be much lower than the current soft cap of 58 mil. even so, the average team payroll for this year was 67-68 mil. that's a significant salary cut

a hard cap of this nature could not be instituted prior to the 2014-2015 season given guaranteed contracts already on the books. only miami has significant payroll commitments beyond that (2 more years for the big 3). new CBA could realistically cost the heat bosh for as much as the final 2 years of his contract unless old contracts are somehow grandfathered in (to the detriment of the competitiveness of other teams)

[juror1]

Be prepared for a long lockout

Everyone knows you lowball the opposing party on your first offer and work towards the middle, it's how it goes. I wouldn't make a big deal out of this, at all.

If they'd offered a reasonable compromise first, the players union would've tried to work up the offer from there, which isn't what ownership is aiming for.

Yup, negotiating 101.

No offense to those of you that think that lowballing someone is a standard negotiating technique, IMO a lowball is an insult and doesn't make for a very good start to any negotiation. If you are honest and straight forward from the beginning the other party is more likely to play ball, if you disrespect them, they're going to enter into the negotiations thinking that it's a fight when really it's a potluck dinner.

[Raps in 4]

^ that would make the league competitive every season or 2. Meaning no more dynasties....

That's the goal.

[bullsnewdynasty]

Personally I don't care about where the cap is or the franchise player rule, I just want non guaranteed contracts. I want to see players play as if they are playing each night for their jobs. I want to see Rip Hamilton cut and tossed in the street. I want to see teams not get choked out for half a decade or more because a Brandon Roy contract or a Kenyon Martin or Jermaine O'Neal contract.

Maybe you should blame the owners who gave those players new contracts. Nobody put a guy to their head and said they needed to extend their guy. Make a dumb investment in real life? You don't get your money back. Maybe then teams would get their heads on straight before they offered journeyman like Drew Gooden 5 year deals on the first day of free agency.

Nah, instead let's have no repercussions if you **** up with a deal as an owner. Holdouts 24/7. Sounds great to me.

[JF5]

Personally I don't care about where the cap is or the franchise player rule, I just want non guaranteed contracts. I want to see players play as if they are playing each night for their jobs. I want to see Rip Hamilton cut and tossed in the street. I want to see teams not get choked out for half a decade or more because a Brandon Roy contract or a Kenyon Martin or Jermaine O'Neal contract.

Maybe you should blame the owners who gave those players new contracts. Nobody put a guy to their head and said they needed to extend their guy. Make a dumb investment in real life? You don't get your money back. Maybe then teams would get their heads on straight before they offered journeyman like Drew Gooden 5 year deals on the first day of free agency.

But then again if they don't make moves. Their team won't be good, and fans will start losing interest in the team. Guys like Drew Gooden, of course thats a terrible signing. But a team like the Hawks who were signed Joe Johnson to that ridiculous contract, they had to do it. Because you invested so much time into this team being good, and you are forced to make moves to stay a good team. Even if that means giving a contract like that.

Same thing could be said about the Cavs signing Hughes in 2005. They had to sign somebody to put next to LeBron James to win. Right idea and intentions, but in hindsight a terrible signing. I honestly don't fault owners on that aspect, because the majority of the owners want to win. So they would sign anybody.

[Friend_Of_Haley]

Well as far as handing out bad contracts, a hard cap would in theory create more free agency activity because more players would be FA each year, so teams would have more options where to throw their money. Additionally, the current system typically leaves teams in scenarios where they have a one year take it or leave it option in free agency. With a hard cap, its likely teams would be able to hold out in a particular year if there aren't good options.

What I'd hate to see is just a super low cap with unguaranteed contracts and no cap penalties for teams who cut a player early. If contracts are 100% unguaranteed the cap penalties should be very strict, except if the cap is only $45M, how can you have it.

The better option is allowing guaranteed contracts still with less stiff cap penalties, so teams still mantain the ability to operate within the cap, yet are not given a free pass on bad decisions.

As far as making it like the NFL, I love the NFL system, but I think the need for unguaranteed contracts is much more needed there. NFL is just so physical that a long term guaranteed contract could easily kill teams because of injuries. In the NBA, most players who don't live up to the contract don't on their own accord, and its often the same teams that seem to sign those players with terrible contracts. Why are we gonna give those teams who make bad signings a helping hand?

[bullsnewdynasty]

Teams have tried too hard to make 'a move' whether it's a smart one or not. Instead of using up that cap space on a gargantuan contract, how about maintaining cap flexibility and assets for a change? Not selling off or throwing away 1st round picks every season? That's been proven as the 'Cleveland model' of building around your superstar, that Orlando has followed ever so closely. Instead of having the assets to compete for a guy like Deron Williams or Chris Paul in free agency, these teams are hamstrung by albatross veterans, hoping that they are the 'missing piece.' Or on the other hand, pulling a Phoenix, which is refusing to pay your superstar big man and spending just as much cash signing limited role players to multiyear deals. It's all about being smart. And why blame the players? They're just taking advantage of the owners and their stupidity. $45 million hard cap? Unguaranteed contracts? Hope the league isn't stunned when a big name player takes off to Europe for a bigger payday and Stern's NBA suddenly starts losing popularity.

[Bluewhale]

You know what? Big name player will get paid in MAX contract at least 12 Millions or more. In addition, don't forget to count the shoe contract from Nike or whoever.

Do you think LBJ will left for Europe? Durant will left for Europe? DH will left for Europe?

Do the math. Be real.

Some MLE player will leave for Europe, but it won't make anyone stunned. Drew Gooden went to Europe, so be it.