If Wade was the man, why is LeBron getting the grief?

[duyduck]

Wade, on the whole, showed up for the Finals. LeBron did not. LeBron needs to accept the Pippen role and defer to Wade. It needs to be Wade's team.

Let go off of that, since Kerr said it as well.

If this is Wade's (Jordan) team, and Lebron (Pippen) joined Wades team, why is it only Lebrons fault?

Everyone does know that this was Wades team last year, and Lebron joined him, and Wade is sharing his spotlight with James right? This is by no means James' team. Hence why I don't see the undue criticism for Lebron alone.

[Next Coming]

If Lebron had played with Shaq in his prime years, we wouldn't even be discussing this right now.

LeBron was just in a Finals series where one of his teammates averaged 26.5ppg, 7.0rpg, 5.2apg on 55% shooting AND another teammate that averaged 18.5ppg and 7.3rpg.. and yet they still lost with homecourt advantage. I would love to hear what makes you so certain that LeBron wouldve won with Shaq, especially thinking about how Kobe was the closer in many of those games because Shaq couldnt shoot free throws.

From another thread.

LeBron James was out played by 2 players on his team. Didn't play with as much heart as Mario Chalmers.

And was repeatedly abused by Jason Terry after he called him out. Let DeShawn Stevenson go off on him and played to a draw by Shawn Marion.

[Studemire1]

Because Robin needs to do some work too.

[tsherkin]

Wade, on the whole, showed up for the Finals. LeBron did not. LeBron needs to accept the Pippen role and defer to Wade. It needs to be Wade's team.

Wade didn't really step up when it mattered either, though. Wade could easily have demanded the ball and he shot plenty, he was just as rough as Lebron when it really mattered as well.

Remember, James really didn't put a stamp on the series by taking a lot of shots in any one game. Wade, on the other hand, had taken 19-21 shots in each of the first four games of the series... and Miami had still split the games. Game 5 was obviously his hip injury, but Game 6, he just sucked. If he's to be The Man, he needs to be that player and just demand the ball. He didn't, and they crumbled in an elimination game during which Lebron actually played well in the 4th quarter...

[Chosen01]

Wait, did I watch a different series or something?Wade played a extremely good series except game 6 and even then do people not remember that when Mavs went on their massive 3pt run, As soon as Wade was subbed in for LeBron he was the one who sparked that 16-2 run with his playmaking, blocking shots and scoring, I mean look here:

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=310612014&period=2

or press press open img to see the whole pic


Wade played alright for some stretches but was bad in QT 4 but after 5 stellar games he was bound to have an off game, it would have only taken an AVERAGE game from LeBron to beat the Mavs 4-5.

[qm22]

Wade, on the whole, showed up for the Finals. LeBron did not. LeBron needs to accept the Pippen role and defer to Wade. It needs to be Wade's team.

Wade didn't really step up when it mattered either, though. Wade could easily have demanded the ball and he shot plenty, he was just as rough as Lebron when it really mattered as well.

Remember, James really didn't put a stamp on the series by taking a lot of shots in any one game. Wade, on the other hand, had taken 19-21 shots in each of the first four games of the series... and Miami had still split the games. Game 5 was obviously his hip injury, but Game 6, he just sucked. If he's to be The Man, he needs to be that player and just demand the ball. He didn't, and they crumbled in an elimination game during which Lebron actually played well in the 4th quarter...

He did have a bad game 6, and some bad moments, but that doesn't change the fact that he had the best individual series in the Finals and played smart through most of the time, in terms of when to score and when to move the ball. As a with superstar wing players, it is expected there are times like game 6.

When you mention "not stepping up when it matters", it is very subjective on when the time that matters is. If, for example, Miami didn't blow their 4th quarter leads, they could have won when Wade had had better games. Particularly game 2, which was lost by going away from him and squandering the lead he was key in building.

[qm22]

Wait, did I watch a different series or something?Wade played a extremely good series except game 6 and even then do people not remember that when Mavs on their massive 3pt run, As soon as Wade was subbed in for LeBron he was the one who sparked that 16-2 run with his playmaking, blocking shots and scoring, I mean look here:

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=310612014&period=2

Wade played alright for some stretches but was bad in QT but after 5 stellar games he was bound to have an off game, it would have only taken an AVERAGE game from LeBron to beat the Mavs 4-5.

I was going to mention this too. Wade's stats were bad but he was key in getting Miami back after that run of turnovers to 3s from the Mavs in the 2nd. But I didn't think, given his monumental series, I even needed to argue that point. He did have an off game overall, but not as bad as the stats suggest, and it seemed like Miami was falling apart the longer that game went on. Plus, it is hard to expect miracles from him for 6 straight games.

[blumeany]

Wade is much more willing to put the team on his back and take the good and the bad than Lebron is, plain and simple. Does he fail? Yep. But you get a sense about Wade that the guy is putting everything out there. With Lebron, you get the sense that he is holding everything back.

[Chosen01]

Wait, did I watch a different series or something?Wade played a extremely good series except game 6 and even then do people not remember that when Mavs on their massive 3pt run, As soon as Wade was subbed in for LeBron he was the one who sparked that 16-2 run with his playmaking, blocking shots and scoring, I mean look here:

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=310612014&period=2

Wade played alright for some stretches but was bad in QT but after 5 stellar games he was bound to have an off game, it would have only taken an AVERAGE game from LeBron to beat the Mavs 4-5.

I was going to mention this too. Wade's stats were bad but he was key in getting Miami back after that run of turnovers to 3s from the Mavs in the 2nd. But I didn't think, given his monumental series, I even needed to argue that point. He did have an off game overall, but not as bad as the stats suggest, and it seemed like Miami was falling apart the longer that game went on. Plus, it is hard to expect miracles from him for 6 straight games.

Exactly, I don't get how people can really give Wade the bulk of the blame especially after people were saying how Wade was a top finals performer after Jordan and Shaq meaning he was having a super series.Before the run in game 6,I honestly thought the game was over but Wade brought them back,basically doing EVERYTHING.If you watched the actual game, he had a bigger impact than LeBron but he should get some blame for missing so many FTs but after carrying the Heat on his back for 5 games you would expect him to have an off game with LeBron taking over.

You can say "Oh he had some TOs or missed FTs in game 4 and 5" but had LeBron had his average 25 7 and 7 50% then the game wouldn't even be close for all that to happen.

Another thing that I'm thinking of now is why the hell didn't Spo call for more LeBron and Wade PnRs and Wade in the post to abuse Terry and Kidd/draw double teams to get him going since its basically hurt Dallas in the previous games.

[ikidunot]

Wade sucked when they needed him the most. I think he had the same amount of points in the 4th as Lebron. Also when he got that tech that took all the momentum that Miami had. He also had 2 costly turnovers at the end, one dribbling the ball of his foot than it went out of bounds, and the next was letting JET steal the ball away from him.

[microfib4thewin]

I think that is part of the point.

We all know that KG had terrible teams, so that always come up in these arguments, and the reason why KG had problems in the playoffs.

For all the teams that Dirk has played for, and all the money that Cuban spent, there were quite a few bad teams in there as well. But it always falls back on Dirk for choking and being soft, and not how bad his teams were. But for KG, its more about his team play, and rarely about him coming up short in the clutch.

While I hate the argument of shifting all the blame away from KG to his teammates, you do have to understand the Wolves as an organization is much more poorly ran than the Mavs after Cuban took over. The main obstacle for Dirk from the management standpoint is that Cuban sometimes gets too involved with the tinkering of the roster and it has backfired on occasion(Signing Dampier, sending out two unprotected picks for Kidd, etc.). For KG, you have pretty much everything going against him. Glen Taylor is an inept owner who doesn't know how to control a bad situation. There was no reason for him to keep McHale as a GM for so long. McHale himself is one of the worst GMs in recent years, and there is no stability in the head coach position.

KG does have his shortcomings, but the Wolves is a such a messed up franchise you would be hardpressed to find any player who can instill a winning culture on that team. To me it is more difficult to blame KG for his team's failures than Dirk's.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

How is this a question? Lebron looked scared and Wade didn't. That's the long and the short of it. Which isn't to say Wade didn't eff up a few times down the stretch; he did. But no one has grounds to call him a coward.

[chrbal]

To answer the initial poster. Because Lebron SHOULD HAVE been the man. Instead he was hiding on the side waiting for something to happen.

[dm17415]

Wade, on the whole, showed up for the Finals. LeBron did not. LeBron needs to accept the Pippen role and defer to Wade. It needs to be Wade's team.

How is allowing Wade with the match-up advantage more shots called deferring? Would him shooting every time he got the ball been beneficial to the team? Even with him "deferring", if Miami didn't have the game 2 collapse and had Wade not have the turnover at the end of game 4, it would've been Miami with the title. Could Lebron have done more? Absolutely. But Lebron led both teams in assist, yes even over Kidd and in game 4 where he scored 2 points in the 4th quarter, he also had 4 assist but everyone is just obsessed with scoring. People are criticizing Lebron of not doing the same thing non-Kobe fans criticize Kobe for.

Lebron is not MJ, no one is, they are different players with different skillsets.

[Wilford Brimley]

Off the top of my head:

Game 2

-Blew a 15 point lead
-Missed the game winner

Game 4

-Lost the ball on the last play

Game 6

-Shot 38% (0-4 from 3)
-5 TOs
-0 points in the 4th Q


Discuss

Anyone wanna address this?

[dm17415]

If Lebron had played with Shaq in his prime years, we wouldn't even be discussing this right now.

LeBron was just in a Finals series where one of his teammates averaged 26.5ppg, 7.0rpg, 5.2apg on 55% shooting AND another teammate that averaged 18.5ppg and 7.3rpg.. and yet they still lost with homecourt advantage. I would love to hear what makes you so certain that LeBron wouldve won with Shaq, especially thinking about how Kobe was the closer in many of those games because Shaq couldnt shoot free throws.

The Lakers mostly dominated the finals during the 3-peat and except for 2000 where Shaq fouled out, Kobe was not closer in the finals over Shaq.

Tell me one finals team James or Wade have played that had as good as a defense as the 04 Pistons and the 08, 10 Celtics?

Those teams were beast defensively and James would have fared worse without a jumper.

I'm sure you've heard of Bruce Bowen who Lebron faced as a 22 year old in the finals.

[duyduck]

I think that is part of the point.

We all know that KG had terrible teams, so that always come up in these arguments, and the reason why KG had problems in the playoffs.

For all the teams that Dirk has played for, and all the money that Cuban spent, there were quite a few bad teams in there as well. But it always falls back on Dirk for choking and being soft, and not how bad his teams were. But for KG, its more about his team play, and rarely about him coming up short in the clutch.

While I hate the argument of shifting all the blame away from KG to his teammates, you do have to understand the Wolves as an organization is much more poorly ran than the Mavs after Cuban took over. The main obstacle for Dirk from the management standpoint is that Cuban sometimes gets too involved with the tinkering of the roster and it has backfired on occasion(Signing Dampier, sending out two unprotected picks for Kidd, etc.). For KG, you have pretty much everything going against him. Glen Taylor is an inept owner who doesn't know how to control a bad situation. There was no reason for him to keep McHale as a GM for so long. McHale himself is one of the worst GMs in recent years, and there is no stability in the head coach position.

KG does have his shortcomings, but the Wolves is a such a messed up franchise you would be hardpressed to find any player who can instill a winning culture on that team. To me it is more difficult to blame KG for his team's failures than Dirk's.

I definately agree that this is what generally happens. Since the expectations for Dirk is so much greater, he suffers more for the blame. The issue is if they both achieve the goal of a champsionship, how come the bad years of Dirk still is being held against him? Maybe the expectations aren't as realistic?

[tedwilliams1999]

Wade doesn't call himself the Chosen One and The King, and then proceed to passively to fold over in the waning moments of games. He went down fighting, on both ends of the court so we can forgive him for some of his struggles.

His partner in crime, however, refused to share any of the burden.

[microfib4thewin]

As to the topic at hand, Wade as a whole outperformed Lebron by a pretty good margin. Forget the whole 'only look at the 4th quarter' crap. I would be damned if I have to rely on players to play well in 1 quarter and terrible in 3 others. Wade was the main reason why Miami was putting up a fight in the first place. Lebron did not impact the game at the GOAT level or the allstar level. To pull a baseball comparison, he acted more like a utility player like Chone Figgins instead of being the best hitter in the game like Jose Baustista. You can't really say the negative criticism is unwarranted when how he played is vastly different from any sane expectations of him.

[dm17415]

Wade doesn't call himself the Chosen One and The King

Lebron was given those nickname by the media in high school.