PURE/True Players At Each Position - All time/Now

[Ettorefm]

I know that there isn't a 'right' way to do anything, but who are the players - now and all time - that you think summarize best the position?
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Which players are similar to your definition of what every position should be or every guy should do? Yes, there is no true aswer, I know.
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From my point of view, this would be my all-time list of pure players, players that fit the most to my vision of each position
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PG - Steve Nash/John Stockton - Assists, playmaking, high IQ and a great will to win and make others better, even if it costs you stats.
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SG - Ray Allen/Kobe Bryant- Nobody screams SG more than Ray allen. Pure shooter, from beyond the arc and mid-range. Off-screen game mostly and sometimes, of course, a slash. It's a nobrainer to me that the SG should be the best scorer and shooter from the team. Nowadays, they even have SGs that cant shoot even at good level, like Iguodala and Ellis. Thats ridiculous. Kobe is the second, because he is a Jordan prototype with better range and shooting from long distance, and of course, isnt michael - who is better, but i don't think of him when i think of shooting guards. He changed the position with his intensity to drive to the basket.
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SF - Pippen/Lebron - Defensive quality first. Pippen is the best in perimeter defense, as it should be in the small forward position. Great scorer, post game. Small forwards, for me, must defend almost all positions, have a shooting touch and be more physical then guards. But first, defense. Lebron's physique puts him in my list, as he can defend and score.
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PF - Malone/Stoudamire - Power Forwards should be, for me, very athletic. They should run down the court and destroy from pick n roll plays, dunks and even have a nice midrange shot. Malone is the guy. Very, very strong, athletic, great in pick n roll, just an offensive beast. Good on defense, but doesn't need to be dominant.
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C - Hakeem/Kareem - Defensive anchor of the entire team, also needing to score a lot. Must be the top rebounder and blocker, and score many points too. Doesn't have to be as athletic as the PF, but MUST be the best defender. I have this offensive C that cant do help defense nor man to man defense - or block. Another name i'd put there would be Howard. Of course he isnt as good a shaq, but to me he seem more CENTER than shaq. I dont know why
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I just put the players that fit the most, not the best, that's all. Shaq, Bird, Magic and Jordan are genious, but they dont summarize the position as others
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In today's game, some good players that fit the posiions - Korver, Rondo, Bogut, Batum..
How about you?

[sefant77]

Stoudamire good at defense?

I take Kidd over Nash.

[overpaid]

Shaq at center.....

[NetsGod]

Wouldn't put LeBron as a pure SF.

Kidd over Nash

[Ettorefm]

Just remembered a guy who is truly pure - Gerald Wallace
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He is the closest to pippen we have. One of the best perimeter defense players i've ever seen. He rebounds like a center (8-10 rebounds for a SF is just awesome), defend geniously and still put his 17 points on 50% EFG - should be better, but it's okay for the numbers he produce on the defensive end
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Grant Hill (suns Hill, not the rookie that shocked the world) is also very pure. Does everything.

[BarneyGumble]

PG: Stockton
SG: Ray Allen
SF: James Worthy
PF: Karl Malone
C: Hakeem the Dream

True passer, true shooter, true PF and SF that both ran the floor as well as anyone who has played this game, and a center who can give you scoring and great paint defense.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Kidd over Nash

Sir Charles instead of STAT

So many can define the center spot. I think Shaq at the least has to be one of the purest centers, but I won't take away from ole' Cap or the Dream.

[tsherkin]

Another name i'd put there would be Howard. Of course he isnt as good a shaq, but to me he seem more CENTER than shaq. I dont know why

Probably because of the rebounding and defense aspects.

Decent list, interesting thread. You said to "summarize" each position, though, so that's a little different. In fact, your post kind of meanders a bit, so I have a few different lists.

SUMMARIZING what you usually find at each position today:

PG: Derrick Rose
SG: Eric Gordon/Jason Terry
SF: ??
PF: Paul Millsap/Carlos Boozer
C: Kendrick Perkins

Rose typifies the sort of aggressive penetrating "point guard" who is more of a scorer and less of a pure playmaker that tends to dominate the position these days. And by "these days" I mean "the last several decades," since pure playmakers or guys like Chris Paul and Magic Johnson who mix good scoring with dominant playmaking are very rare, not representative.

Eric Gordon and Jason Terry are the sort of "undersized" shooting guards we see a lot of now. Good range, lots of perimeter shooting. Gordon is really athletic and very good at attacking the rim. They are different styles, but more indicative of what we see at that position today. A lot of small shooters, some of whom attack the rim. A lot of "3pt or Rim!" kind of play. Mid-range play is a little bit of a lost art... and that's partly by design, because we know those are the least-rebounded by the offensive team and the least efficient, but they're still important shots in terms of filling out your offense, working end-of-clock opportunities and burning the D if they leave you open, etc.

SF is hard. There isn't a prevailing type.

You've got post-up SFs like Melo, Butler and Pierce (and to an extent, Rudy Gay), you've got slash-only guys like Maggette and Gerald Wallace (who also plays a lot of undersized PF), you get face-up shooters like Granger, Ariza and Wright...

SF is a mixed bag. It's a pretty interesting collection of talent, and I don't think anyone really typifies the position because it's so diverse.

Millsap and Boozer are good examples of the PF, guys who don't have a lot of size (are undersized in Millsap's case) and do most of their work on short Js and rolling to the rim out of a PnR.

Centers, you're mostly looking at guys who fill holes, play defense, give fouls and rebound the ball. There aren't a lot of good offensive centers. Amare is an out-of-position 4 who wants to go back to the PF slot. Lopez is OK and will probably get better as his career progresses (and 20 ppg at 54, 55% TS is pretty solid for a 3rd-year guy), Dwight obviously. Hibbert has potential. Kaman has some skills. Bynum is talented (though perennially injured and rarely plays enough minutes to count). Marc Gasol is very skilled but not a volume scorer. I suppose I should say there aren't really many volume scorers at the position, because really, there are a bunch of guys with solid or better offensive skills at the position right now, come to think of it. There aren't a local of focus-scoring centers, there.


OK, that's one list.

Classic positional archetypes? That's easy.

Stockton
Sam Jones/Reggie Miller
Dominique Wilkins/Bernard King/Glen Rice
Paul Silas/Buck Williams/Ho Grant/Charles Oakley
Kareem

You've got the pass-first PG who was old-school even back when he was drafted. You've got the off-ball shooter. Then you've got post-up SFs with power (and in Rice's case, a crapload of range). You've got the rebounding, defensive presence who don't shoot a lot.

Then you've got the classic scoring center who plays both sides of the ball.

The modern archetype for the SG is, of course, Jordan. Everyone's looking for that 6'6 dude with hyper athleticism who will can open jumpers but can rebound, slash to the rim effectively and distribute the basketball, the do-it-all player. And the classic SF archetype is no Glen Rice or Nique or B-King, but rather Scottie Pippen or Paul Pressey, the point forward.

My favorite players to watch, by position, who embody what I would like ideally from the spot:

Magic Johnson / Steve Nash
Michael Jordan / Ray Allen / healthy Brandon Roy
Larry Bird / Grant Hill (even in Phoenix)
Karl Malone / Kevin Garnett (HM: Amare on offense, Blake Griffin, Barkley [SF too])
Hakeem Olajuwon / Shaquille O'neal / Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (HM: Sabonis, Duncan)

Magic was a physical outlier at the position, but he's not the only post-up PG we've seen, just the best. Fats Lever, Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups, Andre Miller, lots guys do it. Magic was just a 6'8 monster who was really boss at it, and he added the kind of WTF passes that no one saw coming. I still haven't seen a player besides Bird who passes like that. A few guys have come (and some gone already) who had similar off-hand passing ability (someone ought to bronze Stockton's left hand, and Nash's as well), with similar faculties for alley-oops and post feeds and so forth, but no one else really who had the same canny understanding of not only where everyone was on the court, but in what direction they were moving, at what speed, where they were looking, etc. He just took command of everything on the offensive end, managed the hot hand well, got everyone involved, just amazing.

Nash, I love watching because he keeps a live dribble, owns the PnR, is equally adept in transition or in set offense and because he's got underrated handles and some of the best shooting ability ever. He's an incredible offensive player.

Jordan is durr-obvious. Great off-ball and on-ball mix, complete game, etc, etc. Ray Allen because he's like a more athletic Reggie Miller with ball-handling ability. Roy I like because he's got a beautiful ground game; kind of the same reason I used to like watching Cassell play. But Roy has this nice instinct for the game and he's just so capable of getting to where he wants to go, letting fly a solid shot that has a great chance to go in... and then sometimes he'll surprise you with a brutal cross or an athletic move to the hoop (he did this one thing against Toronto one time that was like Jordan's move against the Kings, jeez, it was pretty).

Bird, durr. Passing, pure basketball IQ, all-around game. Scoring, rebounding, playmaking, played some pretty mean help defense. Grant Hill is another high-IQ player. In his day, he had staggering athleticism and great all-around skill. Now, he's parlaying size, a much-improved 3 and experience into very effective defense and cunning old-man offense. And he still throws it down on people sometimes, even at like 37.

Malone, durr. As a young guy, he had power and aggression, just vicious activity down below the rim and he dunked the hell out of everything. He became a wonderful PnR player over his career, developing his jumper and just playing high bball IQ game. Tons of fun to watch. KG's all-around game has always been pretty to watch at either end of the floor. Amare's great to watch on O even without Nash, he's a talented player who REALLY improved his jumper. Blake Griffin and Charles Barkley are like comfort food; they smash on EVERYONE, grab every rebound and pass really well. So nasty.

And of course, center-wise, those are my favorites. Kareem had a really smooth game, kind of like a 7'2 Duncan in that way. Small variety of moves, but he had at least one counter to everything, especially in the 80s once he added the face-up J. Plus, you knew it was coming and the skyhook still burned you.

Hakeem was the man of infinite variety. He was as comfortable on O at 17 feet as right under the rim, facing up or backing down. He had a move and two counters for each position, just a nested series of whirling dervish action. Earlier in his career, he was just power and speed as he learned everything, but man, at his peak, look the hell out. He was breath-taking to watch on O, and of course savagely disruptive on D.

And Shaq, well, apart from Magic, Shaq's my favorite player. He abided by the KISS principle his whole career. He didn't have the same variety of moves as Hakeem and he didn't overthink things like Wilt. He had his flaws, but he was coming at you with a power dunk on the mind every time and he was gonna try to get THROUGH you to do it. I think he was more fun to watch in Orlando than later, but even in L.A. and Miami through the 06 regular season, he was a riot to see in person. And I liked watching him in Phoenix as well, particularly in the second half of the season.

EDIT: Sabonis, Duncan... I mean, little need be said. Great skill players.

[Ruhiel]

Pippen and Lebron are point forwards



Try Erving,Worthy, Hawkins, Wilkins, Baylor, Bird, Rick Barry, Bernard King, Alex English (Carmelo Anthony if he could play defense)