Joe Johnson: Why Teams Like Hawks Are in Lose-Lose Situation

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Re: Joe Johnson: Why Teams Like Hawks Are in Lose-Lose Situa 

Post#121 » by HMFFL » Wed May 30, 2012 4:57 pm

JordansBulls wrote:
AnaheimRoyale wrote:Then he wouldn't have signed with them, he would have gone to Atlanta or NY

Well had the Hawks only offered him a 5 year/80 million deal, then I'm sure the Bulls or Knicks would not have offered any more.


I've already mentioned in this thread a number of times that the Knicks offered him a max contract. It was between New York and Atlanta, not Chicago.
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Re: Joe Johnson: Why Teams Like Hawks Are in Lose-Lose Situa 

Post#122 » by JordansBulls » Wed May 30, 2012 5:01 pm

HMFFL wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:
AnaheimRoyale wrote:Then he wouldn't have signed with them, he would have gone to Atlanta or NY

Well had the Hawks only offered him a 5 year/80 million deal, then I'm sure the Bulls or Knicks would not have offered any more.


I've already mentioned in this thread a number of times that the Knicks offered him a max contract. It was between New York and Atlanta, not Chicago.

Wasn't he the first one to even sign with anyone? Did they have him a max before they did for Amare?
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Re: Joe Johnson: Why Teams Like Hawks Are in Lose-Lose Situa 

Post#123 » by HMFFL » Wed May 30, 2012 5:24 pm

JordansBulls wrote:Wasn't he the first one to even sign with anyone? Did they have him a max before they did for Amare?


I'm not exactly certain. Lebron James was obviously the first option, that failed, so they pursue Joe Johnson and Amar'e. I think the two of them made up plan B. I believe the Knicks offered Amar'e is contract on day one of free agency. They probably discussed with agents that Lebron was option #1, Joe Johnson and Amar'e are the other plan, and max contracts will be offered accordingly.

During the season it was clear New York would pursue Joe Johnson. Jamal Crawford apparently told him the negatives and positives about New York, but it came down to money as unusual, and Atlanta had the most on the table. At the end of the day, Joe Johnson also wanted to stay with Atlanta, and he requested a no trade clause, but failed to have enough seasons with the team for them to offer him one.

I only remember Chicago being linked to Joe Johnson by the media. The media always links the big markets to free agents just because.

Besides, New York, I remember Dallas contacting the Hawks about working a S&T for Joe Johnson.
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Re: Joe Johnson: Why Teams Like Hawks Are in Lose-Lose Situa 

Post#124 » by orlandomanic » Wed May 30, 2012 5:26 pm

JordansBulls wrote:
AnaheimRoyale wrote:Then he wouldn't have signed with them, he would have gone to Atlanta or NY

Well had the Hawks only offered him a 5 year/80 million deal, then I'm sure the Bulls or Knicks would not have offered any more.


that is just wrong. ATL did not set the price, just look at the Knicks, NY offered Amare max, NY, CHI, LAC, and NJ also offered Joe max.

PHX did not set the price for Amare and Amare still got max.
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Re: Joe Johnson: Why Teams Like Hawks Are in Lose-Lose Situa 

Post#125 » by Fatty » Wed May 30, 2012 5:27 pm

in the NBA there are only around 4-5 teams that are championship material, and those teams are generally always stay the same.. Since 2000 only the lakers spurs and mavs represented the west in the finals. Not every team are championship contenders. All the GMs, CEOS, players all talk about their goal is to win a championship, but that is a bit unrealistic. Hawks with Joe Johnson are good enough to make it out of the first round on a consistent basis and their ceiling is probably a ECF run when the stars align. Will they be championship contenders with this current core? NO, but again so few teams are. To ownership the additonal revenue and appeal of making it a coupe games deeper in the playoffs may be worth it. Lets not act like the hawks have been a borderline playoff team the past few years getting bounced repeatedly in the first round. Without JJ hawks would probably be a consistent lower level team getting bouncecd in the first round
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Re: Joe Johnson: Why Teams Like Hawks Are in Lose-Lose Situa 

Post#126 » by orlandomanic » Wed May 30, 2012 5:30 pm

HMFFL wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:
AnaheimRoyale wrote:Then he wouldn't have signed with them, he would have gone to Atlanta or NY

Well had the Hawks only offered him a 5 year/80 million deal, then I'm sure the Bulls or Knicks would not have offered any more.


I've already mentioned in this thread a number of times that the Knicks offered him a max contract. It was between New York and Atlanta, not Chicago.


wrong. it was between Chicago and Atlanta

Source: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-05-08/sports/ct-spt-0509-bulls-bits--20110508_1_tom-thibodeau-greatest-free-agent-class-rajon-rondo

NY officially offered Joe 99 million, so that mean if Joe is considering Chicago, then the Bulls must have also offered 99 million for five years to Joe.
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Re: Joe Johnson: Why Teams Like Hawks Are in Lose-Lose Situa 

Post#127 » by NekiEcko » Wed May 30, 2012 6:09 pm

HMFFL,

It was New York, Chicago, and Atlanta that Joe was considering because Knicks had an offer on the table, Chicago was going to do the same even know they was talking to Wade and Bosh, because if Wade or James or Bosh didnt go there, they would go after Joe. At the end of the day, it was the ownership made that mistake. Besides I was thinking that the reason why that contact was made because during that duration of that contact, that they were going to sell the team and new owners would have to deal with that contact. But it didnt happen and now they have a problem on their hands.
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Re: Joe Johnson: Why Teams Like Hawks Are in Lose-Lose Situa 

Post#128 » by dtown8 » Wed May 30, 2012 6:11 pm

Sik Infant wrote:This is a great thread, I am in the minority that I think the Hawks have done a great job with their opportunities.

People like to rag on the Hawks but they have drafted pretty well with mid first picks and the Horford pick at three was a little surprising at the time but was an excellent choice in hindsight, Hinrich & McGrady were great pick ups and Crawford at the time was genius. Johnson for a couple of first round picks sign and trade was inspiring and they had to overpay to get him..the only mistake they made was that they didn't have to overpay the second time.

Marvin Williams gets a lot of hate and has not lived up to the hype but is a solid NBA player at least, this is not a Tskitisvili situation.

If you can't win it all then being in with a shout is the best you can hope for and the Hawks have achieved that, you could say that Orlando is in a similar situation but the difference is that Orlando should have been able to win it at the time with Dwight, Lebron's Cavs too.

Atlanta is a playoff lock year in year out after a decade of irrelevence and they still get no props. They deserve more.

This thread should highlight that even though I would never advocate tanking if your team is going to be bad then you may as well suck while the opportunity presents itself, even if you don't get a legit superstar then you can still pick two solid top 5 picks and a top ten pick in a three year rebuild phase and be a playoff threat at least.


+1

i don't know why people on realgm say that the Atlanta owner doesn't care about winning, when all they do is spend absurd amounts of money and stay out of the way of the GM and coach. it really shows how one bad GM and ruin a franchise for decades

Hawks reminds me of the Blazers who have an owner who spends unreal amounts of money and things don't work out.

i think if people heard that the owner was micro-managing the GM, people on realgm would be criticizing the owner, but when the owner says nothing and lets the GM do what ever they want, it doesn't work out also.

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