Joe Johnson: Why Teams Like Hawks Are in Lose-Lose Situation

BlueDawn · Post #21 » by **BlueDawn** » Sun May 27, 2012 3:44 am

samueldestroyer wrote:
ElectricMayhem wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:Drafting CP3 = No Horford.

Oh come on... please.. your telling me that Horford is that valuable. Thats the best one I've read all day.

I think he meant if they drafted CP3 the Hawks wouldn't be in position to draft Horford. Because they would be better.

pb-ceo · Post #22 » by **pb-ceo** » Sun May 27, 2012 3:49 am

JJ agent played them. he wouldn't have made as much money leaving ATL and he didn't even want to. The problem wasn't in signing JJ. It was signing him for perhaps the worst NBA contract in history. In fact it was so bad that people who barely followed the game of NBA hoops heard about it and said WTF? it was so obviously bad that you wonder what they were thinking. they should have called his bluff. if he walks you have a ton of cap room. if he doesn't you get him for what he is worth. Somebody has to be the best FO in the league and somebody has to be the worst. that's just the way it is.

Woodsanity · Post #23 » by **Woodsanity** » Sun May 27, 2012 3:55 am

Ummm....He wrote that a CP3/Johnson/Smith/Horford team would own the East. Maybe they would, but the simple fact remains, if they had drafted Paul, they wouldn't have Horford right now. And yes, taking away a borderline all-star does have some effect on that "dream team" whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

You can get a decent C from free agency its not a big deal. Hell Javale Mcgee if properly developed....

carbine23 · Post #24 » by **carbine23** » Sun May 27, 2012 4:19 am

samueldestroyer wrote:Oklahoma City has three stars... It's because they made the RIGHT PICKS

Puh-lease, like it's that easy TO MAKE THE RIGHT PICKS? Dumb

Dupp · Post #25 » by **Dupp** » Sun May 27, 2012 4:23 am

They still over payed him though, i mean who else was gonna give him 100 mil?

FireRicBucher · Post #26 » by **FireRicBucher** » Sun May 27, 2012 4:29 am

carbine23 wrote:
samueldestroyer wrote:Oklahoma City has three stars... It's because they made the RIGHT PICKS

Puh-lease, like it's that easy TO MAKE THE RIGHT PICKS? Dumb

OKC was incredible lucky that Durant and Westbrook were terrible as rookies. Look at Cleveland with Kyrie Irving, they would be better off in the long run if he had stunk this season.

samueldestroyer · Post #27 » by **samueldestroyer** » Sun May 27, 2012 4:34 am

carbine23 wrote:
samueldestroyer wrote:Oklahoma City has three stars... It's because they made the RIGHT PICKS

Puh-lease, like it's that easy TO MAKE THE RIGHT PICKS? Dumb

When it's their JOB to make the right draft choices it shouldn't be that hard when you have top 5 draft picks. They had oppurtunties in drafts that were stacked and they blew their picks on guys such as Shelden Williams, Marvin Williams,etc.

therealbig3 · Post #28 » by **therealbig3** » Sun May 27, 2012 4:38 am

Yeah I actually didn't realize that not only did they pass up on CP3, they also passed up on Gay and Roy by taking Shelden Williams the next year.

Assuming they took CP3 in the 05 draft, their 06 team would have looked like this:

PG-Chris Paul
SG-Joe Johnson
SF-Josh Childress
PF-Josh Smith
C-Zaza Pachulia

That would have been an excellent team even in Paul's rookie year. And you would have had a young, talented core of Joe Johnson/Chris Paul/Josh Smith.

SaveOurBullets · Post #29 » by **SaveOurBullets** » Sun May 27, 2012 4:39 am

A team in the Hawks' situation can elevate itself to a championship level in one of two ways - one, by acquiring a superstar in free agency or through a trade (impossible for the Hawks, but a team like Houston has the assets to do so and it's a shame that no star can see how good of an opportunity it would be to go there).

The second way is to simply be lucky and catch the league in a down year, then make a semi-miraculous run. Indiana had a chance to do this with the rest of the East falling apart, and the Hawks had this kind of opportunity to a lesser extent as well.

Other than that, it serves no purpose if you're building for a championship.

therealbig3 · Post #30 » by **therealbig3** » Sun May 27, 2012 4:44 am

SaveOurBullets wrote:A team in the Hawks' situation can elevate itself to a championship level in one of two ways - one, by acquiring a superstar in free agency or through a trade (impossible for the Hawks, but a team like Houston has the assets to do so and it's a shame that no star can see how good of an opportunity it would be to go there).

The second way is to simply be lucky and catch the league in a down year, then make a semi-miraculous run. Indiana had a chance to do this with the rest of the East falling apart, and the Hawks had this kind of opportunity to a lesser extent as well.

Other than that, it serves no purpose if you're building for a championship.

They could also draft a star (Paul, Deron, Gay, or Roy) when they had the chance.

As of right now, they probably have to rebuild and break up their core. It's pretty obvious that as they are right now, they're perpetually stuck as a 2nd tier East team that will continually get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round...maybe the Conference Finals if they get lucky. They're not close to contending though.

Tetlak · Post #31 » by **Tetlak** » Sun May 27, 2012 5:05 am

I don't fully agree. Ok, you can't get a superstar, so you try to maximize your success without being able to win a title. That's completely fine. The problem is spending irresponsibly. By signing JoJo to that contract, you are spending as irresponsibly ad possible. Yes, you might stay a middle seed and be competitive , but now you have basically no flexibility in getting a superstar at all. You can't tell me a Hawks team with Smith, Horford, Teague, and another inefficient volume scorer in place of JoJo, like JC, wouldn't be just as competitive for far less money.

So yes, you are correct when you say teams without superstars need to stay competitive, but dont excuse irresponsibility . When you get desperate, you screw up. Every time.

monsterblock · Post #32 » by **monsterblock** » Sun May 27, 2012 5:08 am

JordansBulls wrote:I agree. The Hawks best stars have been Pettit (50 years ago), Dominique (20 years ago), Dikembe (15 years ago and Steve Smith 15 years ago). Since then it has been Joe Johnson.

Hawks have never had a #1 overall pick in their history (while some teams have already had 3 or 4)

Hawks have always been able to put up a good team, but never been able to get a top 5 player, and you can only get a top 5 player by tanking alot.

JamesNaismith · Post #33 » by **JamesNaismith** » Sun May 27, 2012 5:22 am

I just can't validate a contract like Johnson's; especially when his absence from the team probably wouldn't cause a dramatic effect on the team's record.

RatherUnique · Post #34 » by **RatherUnique** » Sun May 27, 2012 5:26 am

_BBIB_ wrote:Everyone is on the record saying how much the Hawks overpaid to get Joe Johnson

But if you don't pay your players and you let them walk, fans complain that the team is too cheap.

Sorry stopped reading here. I live in ATL.

Nobody here would've called the organization "cheap" if they would've let Johnson walk.

He was coming off of a dreadful playoff run (17 PPG 38% FG) where he didn't have any impact at all against Orlando and you turn around and give him Lebron money?

No sir.

bledredwine · Post #35 » by **bledredwine** » Sun May 27, 2012 6:08 am

Even if the Hawks had drafted CP3, it still wouldn't make them a favorite in the East this year. Teague isn't that bad either.

3rd seed.

The Clips got blown out this year even with BG and CP, of course the Hawks have a better roster and coach in that situation.

But they would still lack a franchise player. JJ nor CP is a top 5 player and both are very mediocre in the playoffs.

monsterblock · Post #36 » by **monsterblock** » Sun May 27, 2012 6:24 am

bledredwine wrote:Even if the Hawks had drafted CP3, it still wouldn't make them a favorite in the East this year. Teague isn't that bad either.

3rd seed.

The Clips got blown out this year even with BG and CP, of course the Hawks have a better roster and coach in that situation.

But they would still lack a franchise player. JJ nor CP is a top 5 player and both are very mediocre in the playoffs.

Missing out on Chris Paul does hurt, but every scout had Marvin as the #1 player in the draft. you won't find one scout or old website that puts Paul or Deron over Marvin. http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/Draft/2005prospect/index.htm

and when Joe came over from PHX, he stated he wanted to play PG. Childress was supose to play SG, and Smith was slotted for PF.

sixeleven · Post #37 » by **sixeleven** » Sun May 27, 2012 6:28 am

I know im in the minority, but i think Chris Paul is way overrated.

I don't think the Hawks missed out on that much by not selecting Chris Paul. Chris Paul and Deron are not on the same level as Kidd and Payton. i know people are going to make excuses for Paul and Deron by saying lack of teammates and stuff, but Kidd and Payton didn't have many (or any) all star teammates themselves.

Paul isn't a guy who can close out games, i don't see him helping the Hawks close out games. Hawks still end up being a 2nd round playoff team with Paul.

Jugs · Post #38 » by **Jugs** » Sun May 27, 2012 7:40 am

samueldestroyer wrote:
ElectricMayhem wrote:
Drafting CP3 = No Horford.

Oh come on... please.. your telling me that Horford is that valuable. Thats the best one I've read all day.

wooooooooooosh

if the Hawks had CP3 they wouldve had 15-20 more wins and wouldnt have been in the position to draft Horford (who went 3rd overall)

TylerTheDebater · Post #39 » by **TylerTheDebater** » Sun May 27, 2012 7:44 am

The biggest "WTF?" about the Joe Johnson contract was that he got it immediately. If the Hawks had waited for him to get other offers before offering him the contract he got, it would've been different. He was the first "star" to get a contract that summer, before anyone else even offered JJ a contract. It's a huge contract, but it was made worse because the Hawks offered it to him basically right away.

Buckeyevstworld · Post #40 » by **Buckeyevstworld** » Sun May 27, 2012 7:45 am

DEEP3CL wrote:But at the same time teams put themselves in that vice, I never saw Joe Johnson in the same echelon as the leagues top guns. Some teams do over pay when it comes to free agents. But not too many hard core ball fans will feel sorry for the Hawks.

The drafted poorly also, they should have drafted CP but didn't and it's still hurting them in a way.To me the main problem with the Hawks is how they're built. Too many guys on that team from their top 3 or 5 guys want to be the man. They chase the stats, you can clearly see it in their play. Until they balance that team, winning will be a problem.

I don't think anyone but Atlanta did.