Is Wade even Pippen on this team?

[djay]

Wade should be compare to the like of Glyde Drexler/Tmac/VC/AI. 2nd rate SG rather than the like of Kobe/West/MJ.

[JingoWolf]

Maybe career wise he will end up behind Kobe/West but when looking at Prime (5-6 years) or Peak he is easily on that Top Tier level and can be argued above Kobe.

[djay]

PER is a misleading stat and most expert never talk about PER. Wade, outside of that '09 season .. he never had a season that impress you or say "wow". He never got into that best player conversation in his entire career.

Who said anything about PER?
Wade since 06+ when healthy has been a better player then Peak Kobe for the reasons I listed.

He was in that conversation from 09-11 and in 06 and many people ranked him in their Top 3-5 this season prior to the playoffs.

All stats + advanced stats + impact stats support this view as do my eyes (watching them play) so I'll stick with my opinion.

Kobe had the better career, Wade had the better Prime/Peak.

Kobe athletic prime (stat) is being wasted by playing next to Shaq who played under a structural system of Phil Jackson. Looks up Kobe stat without Shaq during his athletic prime (00-03). His Skill prime however is in '06-09...

[djay]

Maybe career wise he will end up behind Kobe/West but when looking at Prime (5-6 years) or Peak he is easily on that Top Tier level and can be argued above Kobe.

No, you're wrong. Took the 5 best seasons of Wade career vs Kobe's 5.. Kobe is 3-5pt higher. That doesn't account for weaker conference differences, structure vs non-structure system, and defensive end where man-to-man defense is more important for wing player than help defender. Kobe wins battle by far against Wade man to man defense.

[therealbig3]

Lots of underrating of Wade, because they're prisoners of the moment and only thinking of Wade NOW.

Wade in his prime was absolutely on Kobe's level. Wade in 09 was straight out of a video game, up there with any of Kobe's seasons.

What put Wade on Kobe's level was that he used to be a much better midrange shooter than he is now, one of the better midrange shooters in the league actually, and he was very explosive and got to the rim at will. Lots of FTs, lots of layups, lots of dunks, lots of midrange jumpers = scoring title and amazing peak.

He also had better shot selection, and was a more willing passer. All of these things are why 09 Wade was on peak Kobe's level, despite Kobe having more skills.

[Kironte]

Wade was better then Kobe in 05, 06, 09, 10, 11 and imo 12 (he's in the Finals, where Kobe?).

By this flawed logic in 09 and 10 Kobe should be considered a superior performer :

09(Kobes 4th ring, where Wade??)
10(Kobes 5th ring, where Wade??)

[therealbig3]

Also, the Heat are in the Finals almost in spite of Wade. They're in the Finals mainly because LeBron is awesome. Wade played some of the worst basketball I've seen from him against Boston and in the first 3.5 games against Indiana.

[Stephano]

[Stephen Colbert]

You mean 2006 Kobe who burned up all his energy torching sub .-500 bottom feeding teams in meaningless regular season games to prop up his scoring average before giving up on his team in G7 and losing to a weak PHX team despite having Prime Odom giving him 20/11/5 on 60%TS and most of his roleplayers stepping up?

Or 2009 Kobe who wasn't even close to Wade but won due to having the most stacked team in the league.

So...
2006 Kobe who loses in 7 to the 2 seed is trash for not winning with, wait for it, PRIME ODOM!
2009 Kobe who wins the chip is trash because his teammates are "too good"

2009 Wade is great because he put up great numbers despite losing in the 1st round to the 4 seed Hawks
2012 Wade is better than Kobe because he made the finals playing on a team with the best player in the league and another perennial allstar
O, ok. I think I get it now BingoWolf.

[JingoWolf]

By this flawed logic in 09 and 10 Kobe should be considered a superior performer :

09(Kobes 4th ring, where Wade??)
10(Kobes 5th ring, where Wade??)

I agree with you.
However I still think Wade had the better regular season this year and with Kobe choking against OKC I still think you can argue for him.

I get Pro-Kobe arguments for 2012 and have no problems with them.

[JingoWolf]

So...
2006 Kobe who loses in 7 to the 2 seed is trash for not winning with, wait for it, PRIME ODOM!
2009 Kobe who wins the chip is trash because his teammates are "too good"

2009 Wade is great because he put up great numbers despite losing in the 1st round to the 4 seed Hawks
2012 Wade is better than Kobe because he made the finals playing on a team with the best player in the league and another perennial allstar

I thought 2006 Wade was just as good if not better then Kobe in the regular season and his epic playoffs clearly sets him apart that year.
Gaudy PPG doesn't impress me as much as overall game and defense especially when its PPG padded by torching bad teams.

2009 Wade was light years better then Kobe in the regular season and was better in the PSeason.

If you read my last post I said I have no issues with anyone arguing for Kobe over Wade this year.
I personally think Wade was better then Kobe this year but I "get" Pro-Kobe arguments.

[tundraknight]

Poor Lebron. He went running to the the Heat to play with another supposed superstar and another all-star so he could finnaly win a championship (or so he thought) but now Wade seems to be declining a little earlier than most players do. Wade isn't even Lebron's Pippen

Is this Lebrons fate?

[Stephen Colbert]

So...
2006 Kobe who loses in 7 to the 2 seed is trash for not winning with, wait for it, PRIME ODOM!
2009 Kobe who wins the chip is trash because his teammates are "too good"

2009 Wade is great because he put up great numbers despite losing in the 1st round to the 4 seed Hawks
2012 Wade is better than Kobe because he made the finals playing on a team with the best player in the league and another perennial allstar

I thought 2006 Wade was just as good if not better then Kobe in the regular season and his epic playoffs clearly sets him apart that year.
Gaudy PPG doesn't impress me as much as overall game and defense especially when its PPG padded by torching bad teams.

2009 Wade was light years better then Kobe in both the regular and PSeason.

If you read my last post I said I have no issues with anyone arguing for Kobe over Wade this year.
I personally think Wade was better then Kobe this year but I "get" Pro-Kobe arguments.

I actually partially agree, I think Prime Wade is about equal to prime Kobe, it's very difficult to compare players whose primes were at different times so I call it a wash. My point is that you seem to really cherry pick your arguments. In addition it seems like you have a lot of double standards when analyzing a player, especially crucifying Kobe for many things while using justifications for other players.

[JingoWolf]

Haha... yeah I can be unfair on Kobe sometimes and I try not to be.

I'm not perfect and sometimes we let emotions get the better of us.

He is just one guy I don't love.

[Stephen Colbert]

Haha... yeah I can be unfair on Kobe sometimes and I try not to be.

I'm not perfect and sometimes we let emotions get the better of us.

Where does the Kobe hate come from?